Should liberals give Ivanka Trump a break?

[KrazyK923]

Being the most liberal person in the room full of insane conservative authoritarians doesn't really mean much.

The article is ridiculous. Of course Sasha or Malia or ANY OTHER child of a President wouldn't be scrutinized this much, because Ivanka was an active surrogate in the entire campaign and has an active role in the administration. So she gets just as much scrutiny as every other individual who also was a surrogate and is part of the administration.

I just love the blatant hypocrisy of the right on this topic too. Criticism of Ivanka is perfectly valid, meanwhile Chelsea Clinton was absolutely destroyed by rightwing radio and their ideologues despite being a teenager who did nothing but be related to the dude running. NOW she's acting as a political surrogate, sure, but back then she wasn't. And let's not get into all the shit those same people kept talking about Sasha and Malia about (Like Sasha smoking pot or whatever the fuck else they kept trying to bring up.)

Its also really Dictatoresque to put your children and family in main key positions in the government. Ivanka's husband is in charge of so many apparent fucking things that its absolutely absurd.

[Masark]

Then she is first daughter and i am apparently inebriated.

She is also the "Assistant to the President", a position within the Executive Office of the President which Trump created.

[willtron]

No. Fuck her and anything Trump. Incestuous, nepotistic deluded morons.

[Kasierith]

She's a public figure actively engaging in politics, and thus should be held to scrutiny for the effect she has on the office. As opposed to the very clear example of Tiffany, who is not as actively, or at least openly, engaged and thus really isn't focused on at all beyond jokes about Trump forgetting her name

[Paranoid Android]

She's a public figure actively engaging in politics, and thus should be held to scrutiny for the effect she has on the office. As opposed to the very clear example of Tiffany, who is not as actively, or at least openly, engaged and thus really isn't focused on at all beyond jokes about Trump forgetting her name

Trump has another daughter? ������

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She's a public figure actively engaging in politics, and thus should be held to scrutiny for the effect she has on the office. As opposed to the very clear example of Tiffany, who is not as actively, or at least openly, engaged and thus really isn't focused on at all beyond jokes about Trump forgetting her name

Trump has another daughter?

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She's a public figure actively engaging in politics, and thus should be held to scrutiny for the effect she has on the office. As opposed to the very clear example of Tiffany, who is not as actively, or at least openly, engaged and thus really isn't focused on at all beyond jokes about Trump forgetting her name

Trump has another daughter?

[Celista]

Trump has another daughter?

Yeah, Tiffany the unattractive one.

She's not really unattractive but I'm 100% certain that is why Trump doesn't show her off very often, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit of a dick to her.

[Dhrizzle]

Considering she's making public appearances to support her father's political position and using them as opportunities to sell her fashion stuff I'd say it's right for the press to scrutinise and criticise Ivanka.

[Celista]

Being the most liberal person in the room full of insane conservative authoritarians doesn't really mean much.

The article is ridiculous. Of course Sasha or Malia or ANY OTHER child of a President wouldn't be scrutinized this much, because Ivanka was an active surrogate in the entire campaign and has an active role in the administration. So she gets just as much scrutiny as every other individual who also was a surrogate and is part of the administration.

I think the article brings up some good points, particularly how liberals are just as hypocritical as conservatives in some ways as well as how we tend to overlook the fact that Ivanka may be the only person surrounding Trump with some sort of moral compass/actual concern about some important social issues that conservatives care very little about.

[Stormspellz]

pretty words with little to no action, why should she be given a break?

she's her father's daughter in every sense

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She is too dangerous to the identity politics strategy, its the same reason why we can't give any credit to Ben Carson, it hurts a political narrative that massive amounts of capital have been invested in.

interesting fantasy world of delusion you live in.

or tell me about the grain silo pyramids brilliance of Carson again.

[unbound]

Here is a good analogy...

Should you give the used car salesman that is selling that rusted vehicle at high prices while lying heavily, but has a happy smile a break?

Same difference here...

[KrazyK923]

I think the article brings up some good points, particularly how liberals are just as hypocritical as conservatives in some ways as well as how we tend to overlook the fact that Ivanka may be the only person surrounding Trump with some sort of moral compass/actual concern about some important social issues that conservatives care very little about.

What is actually hypocritical about that? If she does something good, great. I already saw some liberals talking about how if Ivanka is the one who helped push Bannon out then she did something good. Bill Maher on his show went so far as to praise her if she is the one who did it. Furthermore, are people not allowed to both criticize somebody for shit they've done but also praise them when they do good things as well?

Once again where is the actual hypocrisy? Its not like "liberals" (Whomever this amorphous group are at this point) are primarily focusing on Ivanka. But, once again, she's was both a surrogate and now is part of his administration. She's as fair a target as anyone else.

Furthermore her supposedly having a liberal value here and there is kind of rendered moot when her father does and says all this disgusting shit and she goes out and defends him or remains silent. As Vegas above said, whatever her beliefs supposedly are, she seemingly has no problem putting all of those aside because her dad is the President.

[Celista]

What is actually hypocritical about that? If she does something good, great. I already saw some liberals talking about how if Ivanka is the one who helped push Bannon out then she did something good. Bill Maher on his show went so far as to praise her if she is the one who did it. Furthermore, are people not allowed to both criticize somebody for shit they've done but also praise them when they do good things as well?

Once again where is the actual hypocrisy? Its not like "liberals" (Whomever this amorphous group are at this point) are primarily focusing on Ivanka. But, once again, she's was both a surrogate and now is part of his administration. She's as fair a target as anyone else.

Furthermore her supposedly having a liberal value here and there is kind of rendered moot when her father does and says all this disgusting shit and she goes out and defends him or remains silent. As Vegas above said, whatever her beliefs supposedly are, she seemingly has no problem putting all of those aside because her dad is the President.

What do you expect her to do, disown her father? And that's coming from someone who hasn't talked to her parents since leaving home during high school. I am assuming that she thinks she can be a positive influence on her father and his administration. That line of thinking is likely poorly thought out, but here we are...

The hypocrisy isn't in her receiving criticism at all, just that it is inappropriate to criticize her for actions and policies that are not her own and that some liberals seem to think that she should be washing her hands of her father or somehow "doing more" when I guarantee you that if her politics are more in line with liberals/democrats that she is surrounded by people in her father's own administration that are not.

I liked the way the article wrapped up:

In many ways, Ivanka embraces some of their most prized issues: LGBTQ preferences, pay preferences for women, childbirth leave mandates, and it’s rumored she’s pro-choice. She’s also clearly a dedicated wife and mother, loved by her father, and at least open to many conservative concepts. So either liberals aren’t willing to applaud the stances Ivanka takes with which they otherwise claim to agree, are unable to accept that people are nuanced and complex, or just like to eat their own on occasion.

I am neutral/have a moderately poor opinion about Ivanka and we know very little about what is happening behind closed doors and whether her claimed views on social issues are in fact genuine, but considering she's basically a 35 year old pampered princess she's outperformed my very low expectations as Trump spawn.

[KrazyK923]

What do you expect her to do, disown her father? And that's coming from someone who hasn't talked to her parents since leaving home during high school. I am assuming that she thinks she can be a positive influence on her father and his administration. That line of thinking is likely poorly thought out, but here we are...

You keep ignoring this idea that she's part of her father's administration in terms of why people are criticizing her. Do whatever you want, but don't continually sit here going, "She's gun be a good influence!" when people are both assuming what her politics are and then getting mad when people criticize her for supposedly having these beliefs (That we dont even know she holds) but is part of an administration that is wholly against what they are.

If she was just like Tiffany, somebody who mostly stayed out of it, was at so many speeches I could count on one hand, and isn't part of the administration, people wouldn't be criticizing her nearly as much.

The hypocrisy isn't in her receiving criticism at all, just that it is inappropriate to criticize her for actions and policies that are not her own and that some liberals seem to think that she should be washing her hands of her father or somehow "doing more" when I guarantee you that if her politics are more in line with liberals/democrats that she is surrounded by people in her father's own administration that are not.

See above. Your entire criticism is pretty nonsensical and seems like just a poor attempt to shake your fist and go, "LIBURLS!"

So either liberals aren’t willing to applaud the stances Ivanka takes with which they otherwise claim to agree, are unable to accept that people are nuanced and complex, or just like to eat their own on occasion.

See here's the thing. Maybe some people do, but a lot of us won't just golfclap for you because you profess to hold an opinion I might also agree with. When you're actively part of an administration that has been, if not outright hostile, then certainly unfriendly toward those issues, then criticism of said person is not hypocritical.

Sorry if I don't hold the "DANG OLE LIBURLS ARE HYPOCRITES" comments of a Republican to much impartiality.

[Hugnomo]

I think overall everyone overhypes the importance and leverage of Ivanka. Either that, or she is immensely ineffective.
She is a part of the administration though, and people have every right to call her out on flip floping issues, or issues she claims to champion but then keeps silent about.

[KrazyK923]

I think overall everyone overhypes the importance and leverage of Ivanka. Either that, or she is immensely ineffective.
She is a part of the administration though, and people have every right to call her out on flip floping issues, or issues she claims to champion but then keeps silent about.

Basically this.

She's either wholly ineffective or doesn't care. Or has literally no actual pull in the White House other than having a dictator-esque position created specifically for her because she's the dictator's daughter.

[Shadowmelded]

I am neutral/have a moderately poor opinion about Ivanka and we know very little about what is happening behind closed doors and whether her claimed views on social issues are in fact genuine

I think until we do, the criticism won't stop even if she is fairly liberal, because there are no results to show for it. Not knowing what's in her and Kushner's remit (who's also supposed to be quite liberal) makes it even harder to assess their performance, impact and motivations. And since she has no record of public service, it's hard to know how devoted she is to her beliefs.

[Celista]

You keep ignoring this idea that she's part of her father's administration in terms of why people are criticizing her. Do whatever you want, but don't continually sit here going, "She's gun be a good influence!" when people are both assuming what her politics are and then getting mad when people criticize her for supposedly having these beliefs (That we dont even know she holds) but is part of an administration that is wholly against what they are.

If she was just like Tiffany, somebody who mostly stayed out of it, was at so many speeches I could count on one hand, and isn't part of the administration, people wouldn't be criticizing her nearly as much.



See above. Your entire criticism is pretty nonsensical and seems like just a poor attempt to shake your fist and go, "LIBURLS!"



See here's the thing. Maybe some people do, but a lot of us won't just golfclap for you because you profess to hold an opinion I might also agree with. When you're actively part of an administration that has been, if not outright hostile, then certainly unfriendly toward those issues, then criticism of said person is not hypocritical.

I'm not ignoring that at all, I already said that people should be criticized for their own views/policies/actions but you seem to be inadvertently reinforcing my point. I find it odd that you think it would be better for someone who might have some liberal views (and has espoused as much) to completely stay out of her father's administration than take an active part in it. Who else would you prefer be there? Another Bannon?

I think what the author of that article was trying to say actually played out in this thread, that people hate Trump so much that they think that everyone around him must be just like him.

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I think overall everyone overhypes the importance and leverage of Ivanka. Either that, or she is immensely ineffective.
She is a part of the administration though, and people have every right to call her out on flip floping issues, or issues she claims to champion but then keeps silent about.

If she does in fact have the liberal views that she claims, then she's likely ineffective. Who would be effective in her position? It would be a David and the Goliath situation, a lone liberal in a sea of douchebag conservatives.

[Macaquerie]

I think the article brings up some good points, particularly how liberals are just as hypocritical as conservatives in some ways as well as how we tend to overlook the fact that Ivanka may be the only person surrounding Trump with some sort of moral compass/actual concern about some important social issues that conservatives care very little about.

What evidence is there of that? For some reason, there are all these people who think that Ivanka is some kind of closet liberal subtly pushing Trump toward more progressive policies from within the White House, but there is absolutely no indication of this whatsoever. The best explanation I can give is that people have been watching too many goddamn Disney movies and assume that Princess Ivanka MUST be a good person at heart because she's pretty, which goes to show just how stupid and shallow people are these days. And even if she did have an interest in pushing a progressive agenda, it's pretty clear that she doesn't really have the experience or know how to effect any meaningful change anyway.

[Shadowferal]

I still say that it's too much of a coincidence that she's given an office and an official job, and within the same week we hear rumors that Bannon is going to get the boot.

I suppose it's too soon to tell really, but overall I'd consider that a net positive result.

[Zarc]

Well, I wouldn't say give her a break exactly. But if we assume Ivanka is on the same page politically as Jared Kushner I can say this much: I'm glad they are there to influence Trump anyway they can. So where is Ivanka and Kushner politically? Well I don't really know, but with Mr White Nationalist and self-described Leninist Steve Bannon allegedly branding Kushner "a globalist" it's safe to say he is probobly a sane person. Probably a corrupt person, but sane nonetheless. And I'll take a crook over a fascist any day.