Not happy with how Legion rolled out.

[fixit]

7.2 has been a shitter of a patch, and poorly explained by Blizzard. A lot of the upcoming content requires research outside the game to know what the hell is going on and when it starts. Other issues i have with it are;
Affixes made harder, wtf is up with 50% explosive orb damage lol.
Random schedule on Invasions (i work and have family, have seen only two so far!).
Sick of 10 minute fights, as Raid bosses don't go down noticably quicker as we get more powerful.
It has made me feel not that interested anymore, and a lot of WQ loot blows away our months of work in pre 7.2 myth+ and heroic raiding (ie 900 ilvl from broken shore world bosses/ 880+ everything else just for farming shards..><). It shouldn't be that easy for late bloomers to catch up/exceed the majority of people who have played since the start.
This may seem like a whine post but i'm actually happy, because i've realised it's time to level up some alts extremely casually for order hall gold farming, and ignore my main toons as it really makes me feel my time was wasted, they're finished as far as i'm concerned/spent enough time on them.

[Deleted]

the most important thing in the world for me is for you to be happy

[Bhorin]

Sick of 10 minute fights, as Raid bosses don't go down noticably quicker as we get more powerful.
It has made me feel not that interested anymore, and a lot of WQ loot blows away our months of work in pre 7.2 myth+ and heroic raiding (ie 900 ilvl from broken shore world bosses/ 880+ everything else just for farming shards..><). It shouldn't be that easy for late bloomers to catch up/exceed the majority of people who have played since the start.

10 minute fights? Did Heroic NH PUG tonight and the longest fight for us was 8 minutes. Elisande was 6 minutes, everything else was under 4:30. Likely you're playing with bad players (or undergeared) or improper raid setup (likely too many healers) if you are struggling with 10 minute fights still.

If people don't get 880 / 890 for Tomb how will they ever get geared for it? I guess they could force people to grind Mythic+ for them (or old raid content at one clear a week lol), but then again who takes undergeared people into Mythic+ (aside from friends..). Makes perfect sense for the gear level to be what they are giving in order to get people into Tomb.

[Deleted]

I understand your frustration but the catch up mechanics aint New. And as a "casual" mythtic raider, they wont catch up My main but i can get close with My alt

[Deleted]

The thing people need to understand is that from a game developing point of view it is an absolute necessity to allow new/returning people to catch up.

Blizzard is doing really good in hitting the balance between allowing people to easily catch up to the point where they are viable for mid-level current raid content, without removing the value of having been a hardcore mythic raider.

"Free" 880 loot feels like the exact right spot for that. It's far removed from what mythic raiders have, but it's at a level where you're able to carry your weight in NH HC to get geared for NH M.

The same goes for the catchup mechanics in AR / AL levels. New/returning players are able to realistically get to the point where they're at entry-level for mythic raiding, but are still significantly behind people that have been actively progression raiding.

Let's be honest: OP is a casual that felt like a special snowflake for having NH LFR loot and is upset that there are new/returning people that are outgearing him with WQ's. The bit about the 10-minute boss fights just shows he has no clue what so ever.

[fixit]

Let's be honest: OP is just a casual that felt like a special snowflake for having NH LFR loot and is upset that there are new/returning people that are outgearing him with WQ's. The bit about the 10-minute boss fights just shows he has no clue what so ever.

No you are wrong, i have three toons in the late 890's, nothing spectacular but i'm not the special snowflake EN raider you like to believe everyone other than yourself is. And you are wrong about Nighthold raid times. Even on world of logs the heroic/mythic times average 6-10 mins, and these are from the uber guilds, the majority of guilds take longer to kill these bosses.

[Akka]

If people don't get 880 / 890 for Tomb how will they ever get geared for it? I guess they could force people to grind Mythic+ for them (or old raid content at one clear a week lol), but then again who takes undergeared people into Mythic+ (aside from friends..). Makes perfect sense for the gear level to be what they are giving in order to get people into Tomb.

There was a time when you actually simply had to do the content instead of having catch-up left and right.
Meant that content lasted much longer, and accomplishments stayed relevant, and as such the game felt more rewarding and didn't go into programmed obsolescence. But that was too good of a design to be kept, it seems.

[Deleted]

No you are wrong, i have three toons in the late 890's, nothing spectacular but i'm not the special snowflake EN raider you like to believe everyone other than yourself is. And you are wrong about Nighthold raid times. Even on world of logs the heroic/mythic times average 6-10 mins, and these are from the uber guilds, the majority of guilds take longer to kill these bosses.

So why are you salty about free 880 gear? What's the harm in giving people free gear that isn't even on NH HC level? I'm a casual myself. And for me, 880 gear = vendor thrash. So why are you being salty about new/returning people being allowed free 880 gear?

[Bhorin]

There was a time when you actually simply had to do the content instead of having catch-up left and right.
Meant that content lasted much longer, and accomplishments stayed relevant, and as such the game felt more rewarding and didn't go into programmed obsolescence. But that was too good of a design to be kept, it seems.

Yeah, it's gonna be so fun grinding EN / NH for months down the line to step foot into Tomb. (Hint: unless you have a guild that is willing to carry you.. you are likely quitting the game). It's almost like blizzard learned that having people grind through MC / BWL to get to AQ / Naxx was terrible and people didn't bother and unsubbed.

That's some serious Rose Tinted glasses you got on.

[Pull My Finger]

Yeah I bet you're not happy. Would have been surprising if it was otherwise. Bohooooo. Well thanks for letting the world know.

[Lochton]

But it is good that new toons can catch up, now, if they exceed you, now that is YOUR problem.

[WowIsDead64]

You should clearly understand, that this crap has been happening with Wow for about 4 xpacks in a row. It's like politics: when it's time for elections - candidates promise you piles of gold and stars from the sky, but when they're elected - everything happens, as usual, i.e. they simply forget about all their promises, keep radio silence and pretend, that everything happens as intended. Same with Blizzard. They just need to sell as many boxes, as possible, so they try to make release content as attractive, as possible. But content patches always lack content. And Blizzard simply pretend, that nothing bad happens, trying to exploit players' inertia, i.e. they hope, that players won't immediately realize, that they're being fooled, and will stay subbed for at least some time.

[Pipboi]

The thing people need to understand is that from a game developing point of view it is an absolute necessity to allow new/returning people to catch up.

Blizzard is doing really good in hitting the balance between allowing people to easily catch up to the point where they are viable for mid-level current raid content, without removing the value of having been a hardcore mythic raider.

"Free" 880 loot feels like the exact right spot for that. It's far removed from what mythic raiders have, but it's at a level where you're able to carry your weight in NH HC to get geared for NH M.

The same goes for the catchup mechanics in AR / AL levels. New/returning players are able to realistically get to the point where they're at entry-level for mythic raiding, but are still significantly behind people that have been actively progression raiding.

Let's be honest: OP is a casual that felt like a special snowflake for having NH LFR loot and is upset that there are new/returning people that are outgearing him with WQ's. The bit about the 10-minute boss fights just shows he has no clue what so ever.

It's only necessary because Blizzard and the passionless Washington lawyer in charge think the only content that matters is raiding.
So they rush you through all of the other potential content (gearing, dungeons, story, questing) as fast as possible so you can redo the same raids over and over again until you're blue in the face. Running out of content was never a problem until Blizzard decided the only "content" was raids, and EVERYBODY had to participate.

This is also why people say the game's becoming too casual. The game was ALWAYS casual friendly because no matter your level of skill or investment, you always had something you could be doing to progress. Even if all you did was random heroics for valor/justice points, you still had a way to progress. The only thing that wasn't casual friendly was raiding, and that was fine because I had plenty of other things to keep me busy that weren't made totally trivial and redundant by the developers.

[Charge me Doctor]

i think some peoples train of thoughts looks like this
"i didn't like the game" > "i want to continue playing this game" > "stuff needs to be changed" > "i need to get this message to blizzard" > "i need to give feedback" > "i'll go to mmo-champion and create a thread where i say that i don't like stuff"
Dude, feedback is not you being angry about something and ranting about it on forums, it's not your personal blog, you'd better post this on your facebook page or something

[Akka]

Yeah, it's gonna be so fun grinding EN / NH for months down the line to step foot into Tomb.

Simple solution : increase the amount of gear dropped in old raid.
Better catch-up mechanism than just giving gear away.

Also, the reality is the exact opposite : it's harder to enter late now than it was before, because before you just lacked gear and just had to progress through the game, now there is the huge wall of achievements and few raid will ever take you if you don't have them already. The effective barrier today is worse than it was with the previous design.

That's some serious Rose Tinted glasses you got on.

No, it's called a "brain", but that's something which is probably foreign to anyone stupid enough to bring the "nostalgiadur" retardment.

[Deleted]

It's only necessary because Blizzard and the passionless Washington lawyer in charge think the only content that matters is raiding.
So they rush you through all of the other potential content (gearing, dungeons, story, questing) as fast as possible so you can redo the same raids over and over again until you're blue in the face. Running out of content was never a problem until Blizzard decided the only "content" was raids, and EVERYBODY had to participate.

WoW is an MMO. The endgame IS, either toplevel PvP arena, or PvE raiding. That's how it is. You don't like this endgame? No harm - go play a different game. That's how it is. You don't like either of them? Too bad. WoW is not the game for you. It's really simple: you get to maxlevel, you reach the endgame, you either enjoy the PvP endgame, or enjoy the PvE endgame: raiding, or you go play a different game. Why are you talking about questing? Do you expect questing to be the endgame of an MMO? How delusional are you?

[Deleted]

You forgot AP

[fixit]

Yeah I bet you're not happy. Would have been surprising if it was otherwise. Bohooooo. Well thanks for letting the world know.

You say this like you know me, yet i have no idea who you are. Maybe if you weren't posting just to get your total count up and spent some time going out.. you might know some people.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, feedback is not you being angry about something and ranting about it on forums, it's not your personal blog, you'd better post this on your facebook page or something

Umm you don't make the rules about what people can discuss mate. I see you're Russian but mmochampion forums aren't communist controlled.

[Eazy]

the most important thing in the world for me is for you to be happy

Spoken like a true WoW player. #respect

[Pipboi]

WoW is an MMO. The endgame IS, either toplevel PvP arena, or PvE raiding. That's how it is. You don't like this endgame? No harm - go play a different game. That's how it is. You don't like either of them? Too bad. WoW is not the game for you. It's really simple: you get to maxlevel, you reach the endgame, you either enjoy the PvP endgame, or enjoy the PvE endgame: raiding, or you go play a different game. Why are you talking about questing? Do you expect questing to be the endgame of an MMO? How delusional are you?

First off, delusional? Are you kidding? Let's keep the ad-hominem to a minimum, if you can manage.

I've played WoW more or less happily for over a decade, so it's tough to argue the game isn't for me.
I can care about the game while still voicing my concerns for the direction it's been heading in.

Me and the millions of other players who never raided, or did so sparingly, back in Vanilla/BC/WOTLK were perfectly happy with the game and its content because the rest of the game wasn't completely trivialized by the developers. Back then the game still had a tier content system. Quest to max level. Do heroics for the occasional upgrade and for the currency that guaranteed you a decent upgrade eventually. Once you've farmed a decent set from that content, then you tried your luck at raiding. I was still farming Karazan happily when Sunwell was out, and once I geared in Karazan I went to SSC/Gruuls Lair/Tempest Keep. I eventually made my way up to Black Temple and didn't even have enough time to see Sunwell before Wrath of the Lich King dropped. This was back before the "raiding for all" ideology flooded the Blizzard dev team. Now as soon as the new raid is out, there are catch up mechanics that render all previous raids obsolete. No reason to farm EN for 860s when I can get 900+ from a few world quests/bosses.

Endgame used to be just that: Endgame. What you did at the end of the game when you beat everything else. Raiding was still endgame when it took longer than a weekend to be raid-ready. The problem is that now you beat everything else in a matter of a few days and naturally get burnt out after doing the same raid for months on end. Obviously it's necessary for content to be repetitive, but that needs to be spread out over more content.