Not happy with how Legion rolled out.

[Charge me Doctor]

Umm you don't make the rules about what people can discuss mate. I see you're Russian but mmochampion forums aren't communist controlled.

What discussion you want to bring up with your "i don't like bunch of things"? You'll get only confirmatory (probably that's what you are aiming for? For others to tell you that they agree with you?) "yeah dude that sucks" posts and "lol scrub git gud" posts

- - - Updated - - -

Endgame used to be just that: Endgame. What you did at the end of the game when you beat everything else. Raiding was still endgame when it took longer than a weekend to be raid-ready. The problem is that now you beat everything else in a matter of a few days and naturally get burnt out after doing the same raid for months on end. Obviously it's necessary for content to be repetitive, but that needs to be spread out over more content.

That's not the case for majority of players. Some still progress thought NH mythic, so the "endgame" is still there. And i've yet to meet someone who finished NH heroic and didn't wanted to progress into mythic. Literally all people who "quit" raiding after killing "end boss" for a first time are LFR raiders, which exactly why LFR feature exists - for them to see the raid and never come back, instead of struggling with raid attendance and shit

[Doffen]

There was a time when you actually simply had to do the content instead of having catch-up left and right.
Meant that content lasted much longer, and accomplishments stayed relevant, and as such the game felt more rewarding and didn't go into programmed obsolescence. But that was too good of a design to be kept, it seems.

Yeah there wasn't badge-gear in mid-tier TBC or close to bis-gear from Isle of Quel'danas badge-vendor..

People need to stop to pretend that old expansion didn't have exact same catch-up mechanics when it comes to gear. It's a flat out lie.

[Pipboi]

Yeah there wasn't badge-gear in mid-tier TBC or close to bis-gear from Isle of Quel'danas badge-vendor..

People need to stop to pretend that old expansion didn't have exact same catch-up mechanics when it comes to gear. It's a flat out lie.

What you just said is factually incorrect.
These catch up mechanics absolutely did NOT exist back then.
Currently you can be raid-ready in 1 weekend of farming.
At no other point in the game, prior to WoD, was that a possibility.

[Doffen]

What you just said is factually incorrect.
These catch up mechanics absolutely did NOT exist back then.
Currently you can be raid-ready in 1 weekend of farming.
At no other point in the game, prior to WoD, was that a possibility.

So no badge-gear in tbc?

Check your "factuallity" because catch-up gear has been like this since TBC. Check the vendor at QD and Shattrat and search up when they were added.

Easier today and in WoD sure, but when people imply that there wasn't any gear you could get through badge-vendors as early as in TBC thats just not true.

[Charge me Doctor]

What you just said is factually incorrect.
These catch up mechanics absolutely did NOT exist back then.
Currently you can be raid-ready in 1 weekend of farming.
At no other point in the game, prior to WoD, was that a possibility.

You could be raid geared by spending bunch of gold and 10 minutes on AH in TBC
definition of "raid ready" now is too different from back then

[Samesnotatroll]

So no badge-gear in tbc?

Check your "factuallity" because catch-up gear has been like this since TBC. Check the vendor at QD and Shattrat and search up when they were added.

You could NOT gear up from that shit in 1 week, either you didn't really play back then, or you didn't expect anyone to call you on it.

[Doffen]

You could NOT gear up from that shit in 1 week, either you didn't really play back then, or you don't expect anyone to call you on it.

I was a "hardcore" raider back then so yes(raided Sunwell) but sure, feel free to not find those vendors with that gear.

- - - Updated - - -

You could be raid geared by spending bunch of gold and 10 minutes on AH in TBC
definition of "raid ready" now is too different from back then

Also this.

[Samesnotatroll]

I was a "hardcore" raider back then so yes(raided Sunwell) but sure, feel free to not find those vendors with that gear.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, you need sleep, you're not even reading the posts anymore. I am not disputing the vendor, I'm telling you it took a hell of a lot longer than 1 week to fully gear a toon from those vendors.

My friend just leveled a hunter, in 5 days play time at 110 he's 896 largely due to the sentiax. Also might be worth mentioning he's trait level 39 almost 40.

The catch up is more real now than it ever has been, you simply can't say it isn't, and I don't understand your desire to say so.

[grexly75]

What you just said is factually incorrect.
These catch up mechanics absolutely did NOT exist back then.
Currently you can be raid-ready in 1 weekend of farming.
At no other point in the game, prior to WoD, was that a possibility.

There was catch up mechanics in Burning Crusade it just required people to farm the heroic dungeons back then for Badges of Justice..

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Badge_of_Justice

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Badge_of_Justice_rewards

http://www.tentonhammer.com/guides/g...ges-of-justice

[Deleted]

First off, delusional? Are you kidding? Let's keep the ad-hominem to a minimum, if you can manage.

I've played WoW more or less happily for over a decade, so it's tough to argue the game isn't for me.
I can care about the game while still voicing my concerns for the direction it's been heading in.

Me and the millions of other players who never raided, or did so sparingly, back in Vanilla/BC/WOTLK were perfectly happy with the game and its content because the rest of the game wasn't completely trivialized by the developers. Back then the game still had a tier content system. Quest to max level. Do heroics for the occasional upgrade and for the currency that guaranteed you a decent upgrade eventually. Once you've farmed a decent set from that content, then you tried your luck at raiding. I was still farming Karazan happily when Sunwell was out, and once I geared in Karazan I went to SSC/Gruuls Lair/Tempest Keep. I eventually made my way up to Black Temple and didn't even have enough time to see Sunwell before Wrath of the Lich King dropped. This was back before the "raiding for all" ideology flooded the Blizzard dev team. Now as soon as the new raid is out, there are catch up mechanics that render all previous raids obsolete. No reason to farm EN for 860s when I can get 900+ from a few world quests/bosses.

Endgame used to be just that: Endgame. What you did at the end of the game when you beat everything else. Raiding was still endgame when it took longer than a weekend to be raid-ready. The problem is that now you beat everything else in a matter of a few days and naturally get burnt out after doing the same raid for months on end. Obviously it's necessary for content to be repetitive, but that needs to be spread out over more content.

The vanilla tier system is not maintainable in 2017. Because of competition. Anyone with a grain of intellect - which you clearly have - understands this. So there's no point talking about something that you yourself understand has no relevance in 2017.

Balancing power levels between dedicated players and new/returning players is a very difficult thing to do. As i said before: blizzard is doing an excellent job at it. 880 ilvl "free" gear is the perfect spot. It allows people to freely gear up for NH HC, which in turn will gear them up for NH M, without devaluating hardcore players, who have 900+ in every slot.

Catch-up mechanics are vital for the sustainability of WoW, regarding actual endgame - progression raiding. You're clearly a smart guy, i'm sure that if you take a minute and think about it you'll understand this.

[Doffen]

Dude, you need sleep, you're not even reading the posts anymore. I am not disputing the vendor, I'm telling you it took a hell of a lot longer than 1 week to fully gear a toon from those vendors.

My friend just leveled a hunter, in 5 days play time at 110 he's 896 largely due to the sentiax. Also might be worth mentioning he's trait level 39 almost 40. The catch up is more real now than it ever has been, you simply can't say it isn't, and I don't understand your desire to say it isn't.

Nice troll post. I didn't say anything of this, not did I say a week, and I did not say anything about AK or anything, how can you even compare this? I wrote spesicially gear.

Don't know what people are taking these days, but way to go. First thing I simply said in this thread was that there has been catch up mechanics on GEAR since TBC, don't know how that got people triggered?

- - - Updated - - -

There was catch up mechanics in Burning Crusade it just required people to farm the heroic dungeons back then for Badges of Justice..

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Badge_of_Justice

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Badge_of_Justice_rewards

http://www.tentonhammer.com/guides/g...ges-of-justice

Thanks, was just going to link these (or two of them :P)

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=25046/smith-hauthaa
Black Temple ilvl gear.

[Niwes]

You could be raid geared by spending bunch of gold and 10 minutes on AH in TBC
definition of "raid ready" now is too different from back then

this is true. there were always catchup mechanics. the difference today is, that you DONT have to play the raid endgame content to catchup, while in TBC etc. you had to (by getting batches, valor points, farm gold, farm stuff for tailoring/bs/lw etc).

what Akka said a bit above has some truth in it. in the old days blizzard didnt make their own work obsolete, by giving ppl a reason to play it (via catchup mechanics IN the old raids). but the problem with that was (like GC mentioned years ago): catchup players found no mates to play the old content with them, bc that already fully equipped mates need nothing from the old raid instances.

what i never get is, why blizzard (especially with a wf/titanforged rng system) do not scale the gear of the old raids to normal level (or somewhere around that) of the new raids, when a new raid is released. so catchup players HAVE to play the older raid content (and therefore progress) to catch up, while the mains have a reason to side-play old content (together with the catchup players) for that potential trinket in titanforged, for combining 2 x 2pc (if old one was superior) etc. etc.

what i wanna say is: it IS possible to find a balance in game design and reward structure that guarantee that

- ppl can catchup fast
- ppl have to progress the raids to catchup
- main players have a reason to play old raids with them
- content stay relevant to a degree (instead gettin obsolete with every new raid)

its imo possible to find a balance to catch all 4 goals above at once. and for blizz it would have the nice side effect, that all their hard work in raiddesign, art, etc. is not totally worthless, after releasing the next raid.

never get why blizz isnt able to achieve that, after so many years...

[Akka]

Yeah there wasn't badge-gear in mid-tier TBC or close to bis-gear from Isle of Quel'danas badge-vendor..

Yeah, and it was criticized a lot at the moment, which was precisely the reason why they changed the badge gear to be tier-specific in WotLK (before doing again a 180 in 3.2 from ToC on).

Also, where was this catch-up gear in Vanilla ?
Seems you are the one doing exactly what you accuse others of and selectively ignoring what would be inconvenient to your arguments.

[Samesnotatroll]

Nice troll post. I didn't say anything of this, not did I say a week, and I did not say anything about AK or anything, how can you even compare this? I wrote spesicially gear.

Don't know what people are taking these days, but way to go. First thing I simply said in this thread was that there has been catch up mechanics on GEAR since TBC, don't know how that got people triggered?

You're not backing up your previous statments now. You responded to pipboi saying that the catch up mechanics did exist, when his point was that it couldn't happen in just 1 week, never did he or I say they didn't exist. Then you told me to "feel free to not find those vendors", again derailing me and pipbois point that it could not be done in 1 week.

The AK was just a side note to show that the catch up is systematic. I was capped 54 long before 7.2 and am currently almost 43, and friend is at almost 40.

[Kauko]

For me, great patch. Busy as always in legion. Flying, alts, challenge, Broken shore, awesome AB brawl... I agree that it could be explain a bit better but sooner or later you stumble upon everything.

[Deleted]

the most important thing in the world for me is for you to be happy

Indeed. My heart bleeds to see OP so unhappy. I will take upon me to change these evils in the world, so that future generations don't have to suffer like the OP does.
To the OP: My thoughts and prayers. The things you wrote about have really captured a generation. The zeitgeist. The horrors we've experienced and the evils you describe have no place in this world. I hope you can find peace.

[Doffen]

Yeah, and it was criticized a lot at the moment, which was precisely the reason why they changed the badge gear to be tier-specific in WotLK (before doing again a 180 in 3.2 from ToC on).

Also, where was this catch-up gear in Vanilla ?
Seems you are the one doing exactly what you accuse others of and selectively ignoring what would be inconvenient to your arguments.

Because you said it wasnt anything like this before? And first thing I know it was some catch-up mechanics on gear was in TBC?

Seems I am not doing anything like you accuse me for.

- - - Updated - - -

You're not backing up your previous statments now. You responded to pipboi saying that the catch up mechanics did exist, when his point was that it couldn't happen in just 1 week, never did he or I say they didn't exist. Then you told me to "feel free to not find those vendors", again derailing me and pipbois point that it could not be done in 1 week.

The AK was just a side note to show that the catch up is systematic. I was capped 54 long before 7.2 and am currently almost 43, and friend is at almost 40.

Fine, as I pointed out in an edited post, just after that post is that is easier now and in WoD yeah, but the main point is that he said what I wrote to Akka was incorrect, and it wasn't. Wasn't refering to that 1 week at all. And he brought that up on my first post here, not me. So thats not something I need to defend or anything.

Pipboi actually said it did NOT exist back then. Wich is false.

Shall I link those vendors again?

[Akka]

The vanilla tier system is not maintainable in 2017. Because of competition. Anyone with a grain of intellect - which you clearly have - understands this.

Bullshit, that's just your empty claim, and you have absolutely no idea if it would be true or not.
Don't confuse opinion based on nothing with facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Because you said it wasnt anything like this before? And first thing I know it was some catch-up mechanics on gear was in TBC?

Seems I am not doing anything like you accuse me for.

Seems you just need to learn to read actually.
Or maybe just answer to what people say instead of what you make them say in your head.

[Doffen]

Bullshit, that's just your empty claim, and you have absolutely no idea if it would be true or not.
Don't confuse opinion based on nothing with facts.

- - - Updated - - -


Seems you just need to learn to read actually.
Or maybe just answer to what people say instead of what you make them say in your head.

"There was a time when you actually simply had to do the content instead of having catch-up left and right."

This was you. You meant only vanilla then or? If then, sure you got the argument. If not, then you didn't.

[TheVaryag]

7.2 has been a shitter of a patch, and poorly explained by Blizzard. A lot of the upcoming content requires research outside the game to know what the hell is going on and when it starts. Other issues i have with it are;
Affixes made harder, wtf is up with 50% explosive orb damage lol.
Random schedule on Invasions (i work and have family, have seen only two so far!).
Sick of 10 minute fights, as Raid bosses don't go down noticably quicker as we get more powerful.
It has made me feel not that interested anymore, and a lot of WQ loot blows away our months of work in pre 7.2 myth+ and heroic raiding (ie 900 ilvl from broken shore world bosses/ 880+ everything else just for farming shards..><). It shouldn't be that easy for late bloomers to catch up/exceed the majority of people who have played since the start.
This may seem like a whine post but i'm actually happy, because i've realised it's time to level up some alts extremely casually for order hall gold farming, and ignore my main toons as it really makes me feel my time was wasted, they're finished as far as i'm concerned/spent enough time on them.

Imean you are right, but that's what they planned, to have a casual joe come Into the game -right now- and surpass a player that's played for 7 months since launch of Legion, that's their whole point, a casual's heaven. Which Is really bad of course.

If It makes you happy that you can't make good progress on your main char towards becoming stronger then... that's alittle sad, don't you see Legion's flaw In that? It's like "Here, you can't make anymore real progress unless you grind 153.627.274.838.278.486. more Artifact Power for your next trait! And In the time you'll grind that one final trait, you could've grinded half of an artifact on an alt, realisticly.

So you see, timewasters upon timewasters. But sad thing Is, if you PvP or raid In a hardcore way, you're -forced- to keep grinding all of that unless you get pushed behind the curve. And then you realize Blizzard nerfed your class and artifact weapon and you'll take twice as long to switch and grind in another artifact. Legion, yeeeey! So good /sarcasm