Legion - Subtlety discussion

[elfporn]

I hope they won't remove the teleport from shadowstrike, that'd suck pretty bad for PvP

i hope they do remove it. It will allow them to remove the "mobility tax" and increase damage, though if i'm being pessimistic, they won't compensate at all.

and of course its removal is excellent for pve.

[Maelstrom51]

and of course its removal is excellent for pve.

Ehh, not really. I am completely used to Shadowstrike teleport now, and I enjoy being the most mobile melee spec in the game.

[Deleted]

Make gloomblade baselane, it would work with the 'class fantasy' and help with the backstab issue. The first two talent tiers need some work because there's hardly any choice allowed. Switching shadowstrike to work like a shadowstep with damage is imo a dumb idea, just give an extra charge to shadowstep and remove the teleport from ss, there's no need to switch it to ambush.

Our aoe could use some work, maybe an aoe nightblade applier.

[Kwakman]

Ehh, not really. I am completely used to Shadowstrike teleport now, and I enjoy being the most mobile melee spec in the game.

Well I for one am done dying to random teleports on Thrilliax during Annihilation and Elisande when she summons rings. Or Eyes of Gul'Dan when they zoom off at the speed of light.

[Valentyn]

i hope they do remove it. It will allow them to remove the "mobility tax" and increase damage, though if i'm being pessimistic, they won't compensate at all.

and of course its removal is excellent for pve.

Ehh, not really. I am completely used to Shadowstrike teleport now, and I enjoy being the most mobile melee spec in the game.

Personally I like the teleport as well, but Have had issues. It can be a complete mess on Mythic Elisande from pull to every part. Although at the same time the ability to addswitch is fantastic!

I love the mobility of it all, but I can see both points from people.

The best route would be to simply forget Ambush, and just remove the Blink from Shadowstrike. Then add a second charge to Shadowstep with another charge being added a Talent for a total of 3 charges.

Could even put that talent into the Level 30 row, so it can compete with Subterfuge. Mobility, or DPS.

[Djanco]

i dont want shadowstrike as a separate cd plus shadowstep + ambush. either remove shadowstrike and give multiple shadowstep charges or leave it how it is. the reason i chose subtlety in the first place was for the mobility. and if they remove shadowstrike they better make the boots refund 5 energy baseline for ambush and backstab.

[Deleted]

i dont want shadowstrike as a separate cd plus shadowstep + ambush. either remove shadowstrike and give multiple shadowstep charges or leave it how it is. the reason i chose subtlety in the first place was for the mobility. and if they remove shadowstrike they better make the boots refund 5 energy baseline for ambush and backstab.

i dont see why changing the boots would contribute to the mobility.

[Deleted]

Personally I like the teleport as well, but Have had issues. It can be a complete mess on Mythic Elisande from pull to every part. Although at the same time the ability to addswitch is fantastic!

I love the mobility of it all, but I can see both points from people.

The best route would be to simply forget Ambush, and just remove the Blink from Shadowstrike. Then add a second charge to Shadowstep with another charge being added a Talent for a total of 3 charges.

Could even put that talent into the Level 30 row, so it can compete with Subterfuge. Mobility, or DPS.

The same way, I like the mobility but I don't want to be forced to blink everytime I use my builder. So I don't really mind having a 25 yrds shadowstep but then we need to have symbol removed from buttons.

[Maelstrom51]

The same way, I like the mobility but I don't want to be forced to blink everytime I use my builder. So I don't really mind having a 25 yrds shadowstep but then we need to have symbol removed from buttons.

You're not forced to blink every time you use your builder. As long as you're in the correct range (depends on which boss/mob, but easy to get used to) you have complete control over when you blink or not.

[T18Z]

So are blizzard just going to ignore the fact they nerfed Sub damage by like 3-8% via bug fixes and do nothing about it? I mean it was already below Assassination.

Why is it when the kingsbane bug was fixed Assassination was instantly compensated with buffs to all other spells passively after like 2 days of whining, yet we get fuck all.

[Deleted]

So are blizzard just going to ignore the fact they nerfed Sub damage by like 3-8% via bug fixes and do nothing about it? I mean it was already below Assassination.

Why is it when the kingsbane bug was fixed Assassination was instantly compensated with buffs to all other spells passively after like 2 days of whining, yet we get fuck all.

I am hopeful the reason there haven't been any buffs to compensate the damage nerfs is because we're due some large changes in 7.2.5. From a development point of view I can understand not bothering to tweak numbers now in favour of tweaking them for the upcoming changes.

Put on those rose tinted glasses and hope for buffs in 7.2.5 ! :P.

It's not all bad at the moment anyway, it's fel explosives in M+ this week and sub rogues are gods for this affix. I've just been ignoring my nerfed damage and enjoying being useful :P

[Deleted]

You're not forced to blink every time you use your builder. As long as you're in the correct range (depends on which boss/mob, but easy to get used to) you have complete control over when you blink or not.

Not what I meant, ofc you can control it, however on situations like Gul'Dan, Elisande, Trilliax for example, There are some moments where you can't really control wether or not you like it.

[Kaluna]

So are blizzard just going to ignore the fact they nerfed Sub damage by like 3-8% via bug fixes and do nothing about it? I mean it was already below Assassination.

Why is it when the kingsbane bug was fixed Assassination was instantly compensated with buffs to all other spells passively after like 2 days of whining, yet we get fuck all.

We have to understand Sub was already one of the least played spec in the game (if not the least).
They don't care to piss of a small percentage of the rogue class.

[Deleted]

Do the bracers change sub rotation in any way?

Also how good are specific traits on relics? How much ilevel is it worth to sacrifice between them? As I understand it Energetic Stabbing is the best one currently, how much ilevel is it worth compared to say Shadow Blade duration one?

[T18Z]

Do the bracers change sub rotation in any way?

Also how good are specific traits on relics? How much ilevel is it worth to sacrifice between them? As I understand it Energetic Stabbing is the best one currently, how much ilevel is it worth compared to say Shadow Blade duration one?

Bracers don't really change much, however you do need to make sure you maximize finishers during the duration which pretty much means ignore mechanics and adds if possible.
Check for relic comparisons: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=410072229

The spreadsheet generally seems correct, however the value of boots + bracers combined without the 4p makes energetic stabbing pretty good along with evis, however according to the above once you get the 4 set energetic stabbings value drops immensely with the boots and bracers, which seems odd to me.

[Maelstrom51]

Bracers don't really change much, however you do need to make sure you maximize finishers during the duration which pretty much means ignore mechanics and adds if possible.
Check for relic comparisons: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=410072229

The spreadsheet generally seems correct, however the value of boots + bracers combined without the 4p makes energetic stabbing pretty good along with evis, however according to the above once you get the 4 set energetic stabbings value drops immensely with the boots and bracers, which seems odd to me.

Really recommend simming instead of using a spreadsheet. Simming takes into account diminishing returns of stacking one trait, whereas the spreadsheet does not. E.g., Energetic Stabbing loses some power after four points, and plummets after five points. Moreso with boots and/or tier and/or bracers.

[Narzok]

i dont see why changing the boots would contribute to the mobility.

any legendary that gives resources when using an ability will get nerfed if that proccing ability gets a cooldown, simple as that.
if i only get 3+3/yard every 30(?) seconds because SS now has 30 sec CD, then i might as well trash the boots altogether.

that's why the boots NEED to be reworked if they go with the CD-on-Shadowstrike idea.

the boots where the first legendary i got on my rogue and kinda the only thing that made me stay with it.

[Kwakman]

Anyone got a written out or sim backed up way to handle the Goremaw golden trait? In my head there are a dozen kind of ways to approach Goremaw's bite.

[T18Z]

Anyone got a written out or sim backed up way to handle the Goremaw golden trait? In my head there are a dozen kind of ways to approach Goremaw's bite.

I'd very much like to know the same because right now we're practically energy capped for the whole duraton of heroism, which makes using Goremaws quite counterproductive. It's difficult enough finding a time to use it optimally in regards to maximizing combo points, let alone the energy it gives too.

They need to move some of our spec away from energy gains and focus it more on raw damage increase traits/procs.

[MightyRogue]

According to SimC use it as your first attack after popping Shadowblades at pull ... and further on CD
If you use your SoD at ~8s on the pulltimer, you can spam SoD after finisher uses to get another critical SS and try to avoid the energy cap ... not entirely possible as far as i tested it