Stop giving Blizzard so much shit.

[Requimortem]

So Blizzard got a new publicist? Need a tldr.

Blizzard didn't want solutions when they were offered because players aren't devs, don't know what fun is, and don't know what they want.

TL;DR Blizzard is not at fault for any of their mistakes, players need to come up with solutions for all their problems, praise Blizzard.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

It would just get ignored if posted.
Consider how many testers do that very thing, yet still get ignored. I was in Closed WoD Beta and got to watch in horror as that nightmare developed, despite so many cries from testers.

[bufferunderrun]

Stats and gear work fine right now (8.4.2017.). If you don't like it, it doesn't make it ultimate truth. It only means YOU (and some other people you talked to who share the opinion) think that way. I like how gear works. A lot of people who have a healthy approach to the game that I have the pleasure of having in my friends list share the opinion. Sometimes they make fun of you guys (whiners), and I try to maintain sort of neutral position, trying to understand you. Even though I try, I end up getting mildly annoyed and post some get-back-to-the-reality stuff.

So, what exactly did Blizzard fuck up? There are people who don't like it, there are people who like it. That's how it will always be. Doesn't make it "bad design", just means that in that specific case you're in the group of people who dislike the stuff. And guess what? That's ok. No game in the history of the gaming had everything that was liked by everyone. It doesn't happen. You are asking for impossible, and that is your fault, not Blizzard's. Stop giving Blizzard shit, look in the mirror and give yourself some shit for expecting the impossible.

Cheers mate

the point isn't that you like it and i don't the point is blizzard making changes that no one asked for and then trying to fix it more and more; lfr for example has been introduced in wow as a necessary fix for the removal of casual friendly 10 man that happen back in cataclysm, i can give you a list of things that worked fine and were changed just for the sake of changing them making it worse.

[Redroniksre]

While a reasonable and constructed well, I'll still "Give shit" If you will, because no matter how large the company our demands stay the same. Good gameplay, good lore and story, good content, If their size makes It so that their content Is more focused on milking us then they should be a smaller company again. Or at least without a "Board" or Investors, they're blizzard. Their money comes from putting high prices on products and knowing fans will still buy It, cause "Loyal fanS" I hope they wouldn't but hey, wer'e still paying how many dollars for Hearthstone expansions, and that's only like 120-150 cards per expansion, and you have to RNG buy them with the packs and you need at least 200+ packs to be guaranteed you get all of them, and around 50 packs as I recall costs about 50 bucks.

How's that reasonable? Or WoW having expansions costing 50 bucks, and then a sub fee? Because fanboys, they thrived on fanboys for so long.

My point Is, If their Investors, shareholders are holdnig them back as It seems they have been since they became Activision Blizzard, maybe they should become just Blizzard again. It's no cooididence we get more content that gives us the Illusion of progression (Flipping artifact power... lol) rather then Interesting good content to keep us engaged, exploring, wanting to discover mysteries and solve them. It's no coincidence this has happened around the time Cataclysm came, when cata Itself has been the start of WoW catoring to casuals and giving freebies to everyone, having a store where you buy mounts and pets, and now we have half of a F2P game of WoW, with Wow tokens.

Don't forget how many people because they had many, many garrisons working for up to 14+ months got enough gold In that time to buy a sub for 2+ years with tokens alone. Not only does that not could as a sub, It's unfair to people who couldn't get that themselves (I admit I'd be glad to have 2+ years of sub just with tokens) because there are many, many people who play WoW ONLY because "I have wow tokens so I'll keep playing until I run out" - that, should tell you that at least 1 mil of the wow population If not more only runs of of wow tokens and would've quit long ago and made WoW look more dead than It is, and they knew It. And gave this "Solution" In WoD so that people woudn't quit during the content draught as badly as they did.

The game Is held by duct tape, fanboys who are too stubborn to stop playing - who don't want to hear or be shown flaws of the game over 12 years of play and the hardcore collectors, and ofcourse bot users and gold sellers. Point Is, why do people stay..? Cause most of them, which I estimate realisticly around 4 mil If not less, stay only cause "Well I'm a giant fanboy, hi hi" or "I have tons of tokens, why not?" does that alone not tell you WoW has a problem, and Blizz does nothing to fix that?

Realistically 4 million? Id love to see the source on that. I still play because i enjoy the game and so far the decisions i dont like are not so bad i quit.

[Niwes]

@op

lets make a deal, little fanboy:

when actvi$$ion bli$$ard is starting to

- not acting greedy
- listen to the players
- try to produce quality again instead cheap shit
- stop "QoL" changes, pruning, etc. just to fit easier and cheaper development
- tyring to not sometimes act stupid as hell
- trying to not sometimes act like arrogant asholes
- giving me something back worth my money and time invested or at least even try to
- stop being greedy
- stop being ignorant
- stop being greedy
- (did i mentioned greedy?)

THEN i start to slow down complaining.

deal ?

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see whats wrong with telling companies on their mistakes. Any company would love to know how they can improve themselves. I'd rather not have these white knights that never fault Blizzard for anything but rather shove all the blame to the playerbase, these are the kind of people we have a lot of.

sad but true. if all that white knights were blown away, even blizz would organize a parade.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with your little TL;DR (like I'd read your 4 paragraph post about why Blizzard is 2gud4me) is that Blizzard is more likely than not going to create their own solution and run with that and it's going to be easiest, laziest solution possible for their development team.

That's the sad truth is it doesn't matter how creative or inventive we are in our problem solving, Blizzard will always adopt the most cost effective method which ends up screwing the game.

exactly this. and nothing else. its the greed of their shareholders that go down the route and finally bring development and game design teams in a situation where cheap shit, with the least possible effort and money, is the answer.

[Crimewave]

Dude, we aren't talking about some indie studio with 4 employees writhing 2d bullshit in a truck.
Blizzard is one of the most prominent and influential developers on the market with decades of experience and a team of talented artists, designers and programmers.
The amount of money they earn from WoW is astounding.
Bar is set too fucking high for them to fail and, to be honest, in last couple years it looks like they aren't even trying. They have so much resources and talent to make wonderful things, to implement new systems and gameplay solutions but all they managed to scrap together is scaling tech that they are shoving in our throats for years already. This is incredibly lazy for such big and incredible company as Blizzard.
That's why people so mad and pissed of. We want to see them aspiring to bigger things, opening new horizons, experimenting. All we getting is PR talk, blabbering on twitter and cheap, lazy systems.

[Niwes]

I will stop giving Blizzard "shit" when they stop making retarded changes to the game and i will continue to praise them for the good things they do. I'm a customer and i will tell them my opinion.

yep. simple as that.

and btw: fanboyism is nothing that helps a customerbase nor a company. and its just embarrassing. but if OP is under ~16 years, i think its ok.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, we aren't talking about some indie studio with 4 employees writhing 2d bullshit in a truck.
Blizzard is one of the most prominent and influential developers on the market with decades of experience and a team of talented artists, designers and programmers.
The amount of money they earn from WoW is astounding.
Bar is set too fucking high for them to fail and, to be honest, in last couple years it looks like they aren't even trying. They have so much resources and talent to make wonderful things, to implement new systems and gameplay solutions but all they managed to scrap together is scaling tech that they are shoving in our throats for years already. This is incredibly lazy for such big and incredible company as Blizzard.
That's why people so mad and pissed of. We want to see them aspiring to bigger things, opening new horizons, experimenting. All we getting is PR talk, blabbering on twitter and cheap, lazy systems.

yep. thats also the simple truth. and its all based on unending greed. instead of invest money and make a AAA game/xpac, they try to grab your money via hearthstone games, paid services (instead fix realm problems), big marketing campaign and foremost the "invest least time/effort possible to save money" route in wow.

[Beefkow]

They should listen to feedback.

Then we will stop complaining.

[Relapses]

They should listen to feedback.

Then we will stop complaining.

What constitutes feedback? Who gets to dictate which feedback is relevant and which isn't? Do you actually think game development via democracy is a good thing?

[rda]

OP, all your "Blizzard are there for the money" and "Blizzard listen" are either irrelevant or superficial.

Yeah, Blizzard are there for the money. Guess what, I am giving them the money. It is my money, I have a say in what I am receiving for my money.

Yeah, Blizzard sometimes listen. As in, the stupidest of idiocies that put forums into rage are sometimes getting reverted. But that's the top of the iceberg. The real problem is that they keep producing idiocies of all scales and the game is going down and down and down thanks to their decisions and very limited ability to produce things that are actually interesting.

The issue isn't with the players. It is squarely with Blizzard. "Oh, let's all be nice" accomplishes nothing. Come on, I've heard this for years.

But let's make this completely clear. Let's take an example. They screwed PVP like no tomorrow. The number of people PVPing in Legion has about HALVED COMPARED TO WOD, which was already a desert. What do I have to do to make Blizzard unscrew PVP??? No, really, what? I am all ears. "Be nice" and "provide constructive feedback" doesn't work, I can point you to the many threads with constructive feedback, to the entire beta forums (the purpose of whose is unclear because Blizzard aren't doing anything regarding the things reported there), etc. So, what do you tell me to do? The only thing I see is just shutting up and accepting that PVP is, well, screwed and will remain screwed until someone in Blizzard wakes up - and quite possibly never.

[Leonora]

Blizzard became a company that CONSTANTLY needs to be given shit because of the i am not afraid to use the word - RETARDED gamedesign decisions they are prone to make by themselves. If we stop giving them shit for the shit they are doing they will consider that shit a good shit and carry on, plus i, you and few million others pay their bonus ping-pong tables so no.

As opposed of course by the completely smart and well thought out decisions you would make in their place...
If you know their job so well, go work there... or start your own company and compete them to the ground.

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OP, all your "Blizzard are there for the money" and "Blizzard listen" are either irrelevant or superficial.

Yeah, Blizzard are there for the money. Guess what, I am giving them the money. It is my money, I have a say in what I am receiving for my money.

Yeah, Blizzard sometimes listen. As in, the stupidest of idiocies that put forums into rage are sometimes getting reverted. But that's the top of the iceberg. The real problem is that they keep producing idiocies of all scales and the game is going down and down and down thanks to their decisions and very limited ability to produce things that are actually interesting.

The issue isn't with the players. It is squarely with Blizzard. "Oh, let's all be nice" accomplishes nothing. Come on, I've heard this for years.

But let's make this completely clear. Let's take an example. They screwed PVP like no tomorrow. The number of people PVPing in Legion has about HALVED COMPARED TO WOD, which was already a desert. What do I have to do to make Blizzard unscrew PVP??? No, really, what? I am all ears. "Be nice" and "provide constructive feedback" doesn't work, I can point you to the many threads with constructive feedback, to the entire beta forums (the purpose of whose is unclear because Blizzard aren't doing anything regarding the things reported there), etc. So, what do you tell me to do? The only thing I see is just shutting up and accepting that PVP is, well, screwed and will remain screwed until someone in Blizzard wakes up - and quite possibly never.

If you truly feel they screwed up, and your ideas makes it all better, and they ignore you... why dont you just stop playing?
And paying them your fee does not give you a say in their decision processes. It gives you the right to play the game. To have a say, you have to buy the company or become their boss.
Now, Blizzard is so nice to still give you *some* say in their process - 10 million people playing the game must give some good ideas, right?
Very true. But then you also get the people who think they know all, and/or who criticise everything. Might as well ignore those, nothing gained from listening to them.

[Deleted]

OP is a Blizzard shill confirmed.

[Relapses]

OP is a Blizzard shill confirmed.

I know it's an alien concept but it's completely possible for a living human being to form positive opinions about Blizzard without being paid to do so.

[Alexeht]

-snip-

Stop being a fanboy which cannot stand ANY criticism towards your heroine = WoW

[Leonora]

Sounds like someone who lives in a safe space 24/7.

The reality is that the majority of people don't get to pick their customers.
Which is only a good thing. If not Blizz devs would take gold showers daily and get stuffed animals thrown at them for doing fuck all besides milking their customers.

So just because you think you are right and Blizzard is wrong, they milk their customers and ping-pong is living in a safe space?
Why do you still play the game, if its so appalling to you?

I find the approach of 'the customer is always right' terrible, and (thus) I like ping-pongs approach. Wish more people did so, then people became a lot more polite.

[HeiAggra]

I understand what the OP said since there are some ppl posting nothing but hate because their class is not top dps. Because they are not OP or what so ever reason and that does not help.
I agree with ppl giving shit because blizz also makes some stupid calls and they do well to show they are not happy, but the key is in the middle.
We should be vocal as a community and give good feedback on changes, let me explain by good feedback. They changed something and we see it's bad so we should say it's a bad call from reason X or Y. It's a good call we should say this changed as help us achive X or Y in gameplay, dps or whatever.
Give feedback on test and state why it's good or bad and not some feedback we seen here like I HATE this NOW im NOT top Dps warghhh and so on.
Just a quick reminder your class, your spec WILL NOT be TOP DPS all the time all the raid tiers PVP wise and PVE wise it's just not possible.

[rda]

If you truly feel they screwed up, and your ideas makes it all better, and they ignore you... why dont you just stop playing?

I stopped PVPing, thanks for your concern.

I thought we talked about whether the game is good, however. That I stopped PVPing didn't make PVP better. It continues to be screwed, all the issues are still there.

Is your "defense" of Blizzard to shut off everyone who doesn't like what they are doing because if they don't like it, why play it, right? they should go away. If so, maybe consult with Blizzard first if they even want that "defense".

[melzas]

OP is mostly right, but "shitting" on Blizzard is just a form of negative feedback and they need it to evolve. It's not really that bad, sure it could be passed in more polite manner but gamers aren't know for their sophistication and a company like Blizzard surely is aware of that.

[Leonora]

Dude, we aren't talking about some indie studio with 4 employees writhing 2d bullshit in a truck.
Blizzard is one of the most prominent and influential developers on the market with decades of experience and a team of talented artists, designers and programmers.
The amount of money they earn from WoW is astounding.
Bar is set too fucking high for them to fail and, to be honest, in last couple years it looks like they aren't even trying. They have so much resources and talent to make wonderful things, to implement new systems and gameplay solutions but all they managed to scrap together is scaling tech that they are shoving in our throats for years already. This is incredibly lazy for such big and incredible company as Blizzard.
That's why people so mad and pissed of. We want to see them aspiring to bigger things, opening new horizons, experimenting. All we getting is PR talk, blabbering on twitter and cheap, lazy systems.

... and a game you apparently still play.

Now, we all probably would love to get back to the time of wonderment in WoW, where there was something new behind every corner. Instead we are in a game that now exists for over 10 years and where some of us have seen it all. Bravest would be to stop WoW and make a new game. However, what game would that be? All the WoW players would step over and immediately start comparing it to WoW. Very hard to make anything decent that way. Therefore, we are in a dead end street, and no matter how creative the developers are, you still at some point start to see the patterns and then it feels like same-old-same-old.

If you have an idea to break out of that pattern, go talk to Blizzard and you can write your own contract. And note, it has to be an idea that appeals to the masses... not just to only you, only your friends or only your guild.

[rda]

Give feedback on test and state why it's good or bad and not some feedback we seen here like I HATE this NOW im NOT top Dps warghhh and so on.

Yeah, because "giving feedback on test" totally works. /sarcasm

I am not advocating making posts where instead of content you have "RAAAARWRARAR FUUUUUUU BLZZZ", but if you think any kind of posts work at all, I have a bridge to sell you.

Hell, just look at the latest stealth change with mobs scaling based on player ilvl. They worked to HIDE that from the players. They then said that this was on the PTR, they just didn't delineate it explicitly in the notes, and since they never received feedback, they thought it's OK to go live - but they GOT the negative feedback (there is a proof thread), they just never saw it or ignored it. That story tells everyone all they need to know about Blizzard and feedback.