[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Odeezee]

I remember being pretty excited about this game in 2012/2013. Has there been a lot of progress on it's development or is it just vaporware?

it's still in development, there has been a lot of progress but the modules are still discrete, come alpha patch 3.0 which is the next major release this year, the alpha will start to resemble a more cohesive game as a lot of the modules will be combined. you can check HERE for the upcoming changes for 3.0 (just scroll down).

[Majestic12]

there is something seriously wrong with you. all you do is make allegations and wild speculation without evidence. are you seriously going to sit there and say you know better/more than the very people developing the platform? i was going to go and refute each point, but why bother? it's not like you are here to discuss the game anyway.

for those who may struggle with patience or understanding the objective of SC in it's current state, i feel like watching this at 49:12 cannot be stated enough.



i highly recommend watching the whole video it's pretty good if you enjoy learning about their design philosophy, tech and pipelines and what's coming to us backers soon.

Of course you'd show up, throw personal insults and then go on with "I'm not going to refute each point just cus". Classic anti-intellectualism at its finest.

You just can't handle the truth.

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I remember being pretty excited about this game in 2012/2013. Has there been a lot of progress on it's development or is it just vaporware?

Progress? Very little. There are more ships, altered flight mechanics and a FPS module. Nothing worth talking about. They're years behind schedule, originally having promised SQ42 in 2016. Now nobody knows when it'll get out, let alone Star Citizen.

If you didn't back yet, stay away and wait for a release(if it releases). That's the best thing you can do.

[Darkrulerxxx]

Of course you'd show up, throw personal insults and then go on with "I'm not going to refute each point just cus". Classic anti-intellectualism at its finest.

You just can't handle the truth.

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Progress? Very little. There are more ships, altered flight mechanics and a FPS module. Nothing worth talking about. They're years behind schedule, originally having promised SQ42 in 2016. Now nobody knows when it'll get out, let alone Star Citizen.

If you didn't back yet, stay away and wait for a release(if it releases). That's the best thing you can do.

there not years behind schedule, there right on if anything...the game's development scope is on par with the time frame such as GTA 5. Quit trying to put lies into what is actually happening.

[Malibutomi]

Of course you'd show up, throw personal insults and then go on with "I'm not going to refute each point just cus". Classic anti-intellectualism at its finest.

You just can't handle the truth.

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Progress? Very little. There are more ships, altered flight mechanics and a FPS module. Nothing worth talking about. They're years behind schedule, originally having promised SQ42 in 2016. Now nobody knows when it'll get out, let alone Star Citizen.

If you didn't back yet, stay away and wait for a release(if it releases). That's the best thing you can do.

IMHO you could have just used one sentence in pkace of that rant: "I don't like Spectrum, don't want to use it"

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I remember being pretty excited about this game in 2012/2013. Has there been a lot of progress on it's development or is it just vaporware?

Usually theres a free flight at every bigger dates when you can try it out for free. It's still in development so there are many bugs, but they come a long way since the start.
I recommend waiting for the 3.0 patch to try it out, this will be the biggest change so far. It will bring the planetary landings, basic professions (mining, trading, bounty hunting), new netcode and many more. It will be rhe really first game like iteration of SC.

[Majestic12]

there not years behind schedule, there right on if anything...the game's development scope is on par with the time frame such as GTA 5. Quit trying to put lies into what is actually happening.

Err, no, they're not right on schedule. My god. Why are you blatantly lying and trying to change history?


Did you miss that in 2015, they started advertising SQ42 as releasing 2016?
Did you miss that the original 3.0 was supposed to release at the end of 2016?
Did you miss that Star Marine was over a year late, and still misses some of the advertised features?(Gadgets etc).
Did you miss that we've long passed commercial release date of Star Citizen?

We didn't even see a demo of SQ42 at the end of the year and nobody knows when it'll be released now.
The original features of SC or 3.0 are not done, let alone the additions they made.
CIGs classic strategy is to use dates in their marketing, then when they build hype, they let the sales flow into their coffers. Then the date silently passes without a word. Sounds familiar?

Then when they want to justify not being able to deliver in the first place, they show up AFTER the date has passed and say "We're going to change the scope, mining is now in 3.0!" And then everything goes on repeat.

Instead of lying, you should stand up and say "Yes, CIG's marketing tactics with dates is scummy." Or "I know they're behind schedule, but I'm fine with it". Those are two acceptable things. But you're too afraid to admit anything negative with regards to CIG.

The facts and the history are on my side. Be honest with yourselves for once and stop sugarcoating everything CIG does. It's the biggest problem with the community right now, and you're part of that problem.

And trust me, since I doubt anything will change, I will be the first back here to say "I told you so" once the project fails. Five years in with little to show is alarming. It's six actually, if you trust Chris' own words during the kickstarter. (Again for marketing, bad habit).

Don't use GTA as a comparison. This is Star Citizen, a crowdfunded game whose entire existence relies on goodwill. We as backers have been burned, and you've got no way around that.

[Tommi]

We as backers have been burned, and you've got no way around that.

And there is your issue. Crowdfunding isn't a shop, and people need to stop treating it like it is. When I fund something, it's because I like the idea of a product. If I get my reward tier, I'm happy. If not, so be it. The whole point of crowdfunding is to give money for an idea to get off the ground. Sometimes projections are way way off, and that's part of life. It happens in every field, not just game development.

TLDR; Crowdfunding isn't a shop.

[Malibutomi]

And there is your issue. Crowdfunding isn't a shop, and people need to stop treating it like it is. When I fund something, it's because I like the idea of a product. If I get my reward tier, I'm happy. If not, so be it. The whole point of crowdfunding is to give money for an idea to get off the ground. Sometimes projections are way way off, and that's part of life. It happens in every field, not just game development.

TLDR; Crowdfunding isn't a shop.

Completely agree.
I backed this game with the intention to help create the game i've been waiting since Wing Commander / X-Wing / SWG.
I backed with an amount i'm ready to lose ( as i think every reasonable adult should) as there's no guarantee for success at any crowdfunded project. So i'm not the slightest impatient, or angry if they miss a date.
Also i can see they are making constant progress from the weekly videos, and they showed many times that they are working on much more things simultaneously than we think. Also i have my life outside of SC, i just check the forums and news, and happy if i see progress.
I can understand that they are gearing up with tools, because they need to populate a universe, and that simply cannot be done by handcrafting all the things, and to work out these tools takes time, but as it seems they are getting close to the end on every aspect, and after 3.0 hits i think they can quickly start to expand the universe.

Also one more thing: Yes they missed the schedules many times, but how does anyone knows how many times other games missed internal dates? Noone knows because this is the first time we see development from the start. Just look at ME:A, it's release was pushed back by a year, and still it was a mess in many aspects.
From one point of view yes SC indeed missed their own dates, from the other point of view they are realistically not late by dev times, as a game with this scope should take more than 5 years. If they haven't released SQ42, and not nearing beta with SC in late 2018 then i will say they are in trouble.

[Majestic12]

Completely agree.
I backed this game with the intention to help create the game i've been waiting since Wing Commander / X-Wing / SWG.
I backed with an amount i'm ready to lose ( as i think every reasonable adult should) as there's no guarantee for success at any crowdfunded project. So i'm not the slightest impatient, or angry if they miss a date.
Also i can see they are making constant progress from the weekly videos, and they showed many times that they are working on much more things simultaneously than we think. Also i have my life outside of SC, i just check the forums and news, and happy if i see progress.
I can understand that they are gearing up with tools, because they need to populate a universe, and that simply cannot be done by handcrafting all the things, and to work out these tools takes time, but as it seems they are getting close to the end on every aspect, and after 3.0 hits i think they can quickly start to expand the universe.

Also one more thing: Yes they missed the schedules many times, but how does anyone knows how many times other games missed internal dates? Noone knows because this is the first time we see development from the start. Just look at ME:A, it's release was pushed back by a year, and still it was a mess in many aspects.
From one point of view yes SC indeed missed their own dates, from the other point of view they are realistically not late by dev times, as a game with this scope should take more than 5 years. If they haven't released SQ42, and not nearing beta with SC in late 2018 then i will say they are in trouble.

Yes, but the problem is that they dug the hole with dates and unrealistic expectations themselves. They did this. It's about the communication, the marketing strategy and how they've handled it. It's unacceptable.

Nobody asked for CIG to treat backers that way. I didn't even get salty about the marketing until they started valuing new money over old money and offered special deals while I couldn't use my money just because I happened to use coupons over time to support the game.

My money is gone already, I have accepted that. If you backed for SQ42, you're in the minority but you might get what you need. Most of us backed for Star Citizen, which we in all likeliness will never see.

If I came here 2 years ago and told you that SQ42 or SC wouldn't be released by mid 2017(and no demo of either, not even SQ42) you'd have laughed in my face. But we're here now, and Chris keeps talking shit in order to fuel marketing and sales. There's no way that he can be so clueless as to believe he could release 3.0 by the end of 2016 even in It's base form.
Actually, it doesn't even matter which it is. Either Chris is really incompetent, or he is just lying to our faces in purpose. Star Citizen loses whichever case it is.

Chris is trying so hard to hold on to his livelihood that he'll say anything during events. That's what I think it boils down to at the end of the day.

[Malibutomi]

Yes, but the problem is that they dug the hole with dates and unrealistic expectations themselves. They did this. It's about the communication, the marketing strategy and how they've handled it. It's unacceptable.

Nobody asked for CIG to treat backers that way. I didn't even get salty about the marketing until they started valuing new money over old money and offered special deals while I couldn't use my money just because I happened to use coupons over time to support the game.

My money is gone already, I have accepted that. If you backed for SQ42, you're in the minority but you might get what you need. Most of us backed for Star Citizen, which we in all likeliness will never see.

If I came here 2 years ago and told you that SQ42 or SC wouldn't be released by mid 2017(and no demo of either, not even SQ42) you'd have laughed in my face. But we're here now, and Chris keeps talking shit in order to fuel marketing and sales. There's no way that he can be so clueless as to believe he could release 3.0 by the end of 2016 even in It's base form.
Actually, it doesn't even matter which it is. Either Chris is really incompetent, or he is just lying to our faces in purpose. Star Citizen loses whichever case it is.

Chris is trying so hard to hold on to his livelihood that he'll say anything during events. That's what I think it boils down to at the end of the day.

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think we will never get SC, when its clear now that 3.0 is coming, and that they are progressing in every aspect of the development.
If 3.0 arrives and works, then we have the basics of the game, from there its just expand and finalize it.

[Majestic12]

I'm genuinely curious what makes you think we will never get SC, when its clear now that 3.0 is coming, and that they are progressing in every aspect of the development.
If 3.0 arrives and works, then we have the basics of the game, from there its just expand and finalize it.

Everything is always "around the corner" but never here. The last good release was at the end of 2015.
When CIG can't deliver on something they let the date silently pass without a word, then they increase the scope to make it seem like "Oh, they missed it because now they're going to do these other things as well". But that's never the case. It is their fallback strategy when they can't deliver something.

I never would have backed SC if I knew the base game they promised would be nowhere in sight 2017. The base game they pitched with a release date 2014 was what I wanted.

Here are the facts:
1. CIG can't operate forever without money.
2. Star Citizen in 2012 was amazing for its time. This is reduced each year with competitors being on the rise and tech getting dated.
3. 3.0 won't arrive anytime soon, we've yet to even see the schedule for it. They have nothing up their sleeves and it is already significantly delayed AND been used for marketing. No One is going to buy that same crap again with 3.0.
If there's progress, they've showed very little.

It's much more than "just" do it. The truth is that they don't know how to do it and they're running out of time. Backer patience isn't infinite. The rage has been flowing like a tsunami ever since the new year. You could really feel the frustration from the community. And It's only going to get worse the longer this goes on.

I can also add that CIG have a very unique funding model. They've basically already been paid for the game. They've got all the incentive to keep the game in development for as long as they can.

CIG is developing what they owe us. But there's no gaurantee we'll ever see it, that's the nature of crowdfunding. They've already cashed out. Chris is already rich and he keeps doing scummy things with the marketing.

No matter where I look, Star Citizen is heading for disaster. Now we're losing the forum too because someone made the terrible decision to not let us choose anymore for ourselves. The project just reeks of incompetence.

Based on all this, the game Star Citizen won't ever be released. At best we get SQ42.
Remember how CR said at 70-ish million that if the funding stopped they could still finish SC? Forget it. Now with double that, he now has stated that he only can finish SQ42 at best. That alone is an indication how well development has gone.

SC will go down in history as one of the biggest failures ever. You guys in this thread will defend it until the end, but then you'll start hating on it too. It happened with the NMS defenders after the phase of denial passed. Most scattered into the winds.

Chris will forever be a meme after the dust has settled. The guy who got rich basically lying during events and selling people pictures of ships. It's going to be a major blow to crowdfunding in general. Sad really.

[Malibutomi]

Everything is always "around the corner" but never here. The last good release was at the end of 2015.
When CIG can't deliver on something they let the date silently pass without a word, then they increase the scope to make it seem like "Oh, they missed it because now they're going to do these other things as well". But that's never the case. It is their fallback strategy when they can't deliver something.

I never would have backed SC if I knew the base game they promised would be nowhere in sight 2017. The base game they pitched with a release date 2014 was what I wanted.

Here are the facts:
1. CIG can't operate forever without money.
2. Star Citizen in 2012 was amazing for its time. This is reduced each year with competitors being on the rise and tech getting dated.
3. 3.0 won't arrive anytime soon, we've yet to even see the schedule for it. They have nothing up their sleeves and it is already significantly delayed AND been used for marketing. No One is going to buy that same crap again with 3.0.
If there's progress, they've showed very little.

Well you only brought a series of accusations.
1. CIG has a steady income, and logically thinking plenty of reserve, as they had a lot less devs onboard in the past year, but plenty of income.
2. There are no competitors other than Elite, which looked and looks worse than SC, and far far from the fidelity SC has. Other games are not really competitors i think. ME:A single player-story driven game, and looks worse than SC, techwise nowhere near. COD:IW looks a LOT worse, tech wise a LOT further behind than ME. NMS looks like a childs drawing compared to SC, tech wise still behind. There are no real competitors, no FPS universe game on the horizont with similar features.
3. You don't know that again just bringing accusations. If its here by summer i'm fine with it, and if it brings the things they said it will, noone will be bothered to rant about the delay.

It's much more than "just" do it. The truth is that they don't know how to do it and they're running out of time. Backer patience isn't infinite. The rage has been flowing like a tsunami ever since the new year. You could really feel the frustration from the community. And It's only going to get worse the longer this goes on.

I can also add that CIG have a very unique funding model. They've basically already been paid for the game. They've got all the incentive to keep the game in development for as long as they can.

Again you act like you know anything about the development which you don't. They are already done with the hardest part the engine rewriting, and the planet tech (which was originally planned to be added only after release). What you mean they don't know how to do it. CIG has many of the most talented devs in the industry, and half of Crytek team and they know the engine like the back of their hands.
The rage not flowing like a tsunami, its not even a stream. After the last months ATVs all i read on forums was "Awesome" "yeah thats what i wanted to see" "I never though they do this many things" "Man i'm soo pumped for 3.0"

The funding model is called crowdfunding, that's how it works, people give money in advance to help develop something. This silly nonsense comes up time and time again that "CIG keeps it in development just to milk backers"....yeah right is a big business to spend a fortune every day on 400 developer, 5 studios, flights, meetings, actors payment, internet bills. What could it cost? 2-3 million a month?

CIG is developing what they owe us. But there's no gaurantee we'll ever see it, that's the nature of crowdfunding. They've already cashed out. Chris is already rich and he keeps doing scummy things with the marketing.

No matter where I look, Star Citizen is heading for disaster. Now we're losing the forum too because someone made the terrible decision to not let us choose anymore for ourselves. The project just reeks of incompetence.

Yeah there's no guarantee it will be finished as you write, that why any reasonable man only backed it with the money they are ready to lose, so they don't need to rant about how they are pocketing the money, and incompetent, and late, and so on and on. I can understand there are people who doesn't have any better thing to do than hating on something, but i find it sad.
Well if you only look at FDEV forums, and SA, you certainly see its heading for a disaster, i look at Reddit, and ATVs, and see plenty of enthusiasm, and people who look forward to 3.0 which no doubt will give a huge boost to SC, in tech, moral, and new backer/funding.

Based on all this, the game Star Citizen won't ever be released. At best we get SQ42.
Remember how CR said at 70-ish million that if the funding stopped they could still finish SC? Forget it. Now with double that, he now has stated that he only can finish SQ42 at best. That alone is an indication how well development has gone.

SC will go down in history as one of the biggest failures ever. You guys in this thread will defend it until the end, but then you'll start hating on it too. It happened with the NMS defenders after the phase of denial passed. Most scattered into the winds.

Chris will forever be a meme after the dust has settled. The guy who got rich basically lying during events and selling people pictures of ships. It's going to be a major blow to crowdfunding in general. Sad really.

Based on your accusation yeah it will not be released, based on facts it probably will. Worst case scenario would be some big publisher take it on.
Yeah he said that at 70 million, and then they changed how they develop things based on the steady income. They could have stayed with like 100 devs, and they would be nowhere near where they are now, with 100 million in the bank "just in case"

SC will most probably will release, and you will beat the "no progress" drum for a few more months until 3.0 releases (and probably at summer SQ42 trailers will be shown), then you will go silent.

Your lats few paragraphs are just shows how much you hate on the project, it just shines from your word.

BTW you do know Chris was wealthy enough before this right?

I think it's totally pointless to argue over this.
There are many people who are positive and optimistic towards the project, and there are the ither side like you who are devided that everything CIG says is a lie, everything they show is a smokescreen, and they just pocketing money.

Noone will convince the other.

Honestly i think this whole "there's no progress" thing is nonsense. There is around 400 devs working 40 hours a week, so there is progress. Stating the opposite assumes CIG is paying 400 devs to play beer pong all day.
It's not in the live relese? No. Is this means there is no progress? No.
If we only go by the things released, then we need to assume the new ME game was dobe in a few montgs, because we didn't see any of it before.

[Onvious]

the biggest problem is Chris actually, he just has to stop giving dates. But his brother Erin? is really awesome guy atleast he knows what he does, Otherwise i dont see any problem about game. they're just slow, but i dont think any other game companies do better job than CIG.

[Malibutomi]

the biggest problem is Chris actually, he just has to stop giving dates. But his brother Erin? is really awesome guy atleast he knows what he does, Otherwise i dont see any problem about game. they're just slow, but i dont think any other game companies do better job than CIG.

Well that's true.
In all honesty, if they would manage to finish an MMO+a single player game with a complete engine rewrite in 5 years, while building up the studios and teams from zero that would have been a miracle.

[stellvia]

I think its a good point that if/when they deliver on SQ42 (or to a lesser degree 3.0) you'll likely see another surge in backers from the portion of people that were interested but on the fence so far.

As for Chris: Everyone knows he likes to over-promise. That isn't to excuse him doing it, but it IS one of his known faults. At the same time, I thought it's been well understood that these are target windows, but there are no guarantees. Half the time games don't even meet their original release date, yet here you want them to meet a succession of internal development milestones while developing multiple new game techs etc. with no hangups or delays? That is completely unreasonable.

[MrAnderson]

And there is your issue. Crowdfunding isn't a shop, and people need to stop treating it like it is. When I fund something, it's because I like the idea of a product. If I get my reward tier, I'm happy. If not, so be it. The whole point of crowdfunding is to give money for an idea to get off the ground. Sometimes projections are way way off, and that's part of life. It happens in every field, not just game development.

TLDR; Crowdfunding isn't a shop.

Most of the negative people fail to understand the very basic concept of crowdfunding yet pretend they understand game development better than CIG when that's a way complex subject.

Haters'Gonna'Hate applies I guess.

[Malibutomi]

I think its a good point that if/when they deliver on SQ42 (or to a lesser degree 3.0) you'll likely see another surge in backers from the portion of people that were interested but on the fence so far.

As for Chris: Everyone knows he likes to over-promise. That isn't to excuse him doing it, but it IS one of his known faults. At the same time, I thought it's been well understood that these are target windows, but there are no guarantees. Half the time games don't even meet their original release date, yet here you want them to meet a succession of internal development milestones while developing multiple new game techs etc. with no hangups or delays? That is completely unreasonable.

Well yeah he used to overpromising, but most of the bashing comes to completely dissing the fact that SC is in development, and they are pushing so much new tech in Cryengine it didn't support natively that they have a lot of things to cover.
For instance 3.0 yes he said end of the year, "hopefully not the 19th", "but i get shot for making promises, but that's our goal"

Yes everyone including me was hyped and sure it will be out by end of the year, but i can understand it was a goal, and they couldn't meet it.

I think the best solution would be not making any promises, just come out with the things really done. OFC its to late for that as the schedules are public now.

[1001]

I don't like to get too hung up on dates because I appreciate development changes but I also feel that if you give a timeline and miss it then it's only fair to update your backers, just as a courtesy if nothing else.

While you are correct with what CR said, the context is way off. When he made his comment he was near enough stating that 3.0 would arrive by the end of 2016, he was only saying hopefully it would be before the 19th as an implication that they didn't want a repeat of the year before.

What bothers people is that we are now seeing just how far they were from actually making that date, there are core systems needed for 3.0 which aren't implemented yet, some are still being prototyped 4 months after the "delivery" date, so what status would they have been 7 months ago when he made that comment?
He says these dates and then tries to add a disclaimer but the dates are so far from reality that one has to wonder why he even gives them, it either looks incompetent or that he is trying to paint the project as being further along than it really is so that people are impressed and open their wallets to show support. Neither option look very good.

I don't believe that crowd-funding should be a free reign "give us your money and let us do as we please" scenario. There has to be some level of scrutiny and oversight from backers, regardless of how effectless it is.

[Malibutomi]

Well we are all different.
I've been waiting for a game like this since the 90s. so when i saw the kickstarter i backed without hesitation. I really look forward to play the game.
BUT
It's only a game there a million more important things in life. I did my part, put in my money, but i live my life and don't really care if it's delayed, i have other things to do, other games to play in the meantime. I just couldn't be bothered to rant about a delay in development. I can see they are making progress, and i'm 99% sure we will get the final product, i really can't see them go belly up and not deliver finally. So i just wait, and enjoy when the new patches drop. I gave them money to make the game without a big publisher so they can take their time and make an oldschool game in the term of there are many tiny details you can find even months/years after playing, which are not needed for the gameplay, but shows the attention to details. These make a difference between a good and a great game imho.
I'm fed up with Mafia3, ME:A and co which are rushed out and could have been greats, but turned out to be mediocre or straight crap because publisher pushing for dates.

So yeah, i just couldn't be bothered to care about delays, i only care about the final product. Since my first EVA in PU gave me the biggest new gaming experience since years (not really a hard thing after all the years with copy-paste games on the market) i'm confident the final product will be awesome.

[Odeezee]

it really baffles me that people still harbor on dates. yes, CR has been overly optimistic with dates in the past and has been burned for it by people stating that he lied to them when the date is not met, so now they have adopted a policy of no dates until it's ready, yet those very same people who complain about being lied to (in relation to dates) say give us a date now, knowing that they are literally still developing the tech and mechanics required are hilariously hypocritical.

and it's as though people completely forgot that the whole point of crowd-funding was so CIG could take their time to get it right when it's ready without being beholden to an announced date before an aspect of the game is working as intended. many issues arise which set back the course of development towards a deadline. the only thing i fault them on is in their communication of blockers towards progress; they can take all the time they need just as long as they give a heads-up on what they are working on (which they do very well through Atv, etc) and what issues they are running in to (which they need to do more frequently and hopefully in detail).

the devs over at CIG have released the B-roll music for the Manchester Ship Update from a month ago, you can find information on it HERE i highly recommend it.

[1001]

Well let's just hope that it does turn out awesome and not another Duke Nukem Forever. We could easily end up with a shitty product regardless of how much time they take....