Mage DPS and scaling

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done here u go, 870k dps while not slacking on soaks.

Frost is not that far ahead as people are thinking. Currently, the best mages are playing Frost so that is kind of obviously that Frost will be higher in logs, top guild really know how to make good logs

My RL is overhyped about Frost mages as well, as i refused to reroll to frost, he tried to find few Frost mages for raid group. U know what? He wasn't able to find Frost mage that would beat me in dps. And u know why? Because Frost is much harder to play than Arcane. U have to keep your distance to shatter spells, position yourself much better etc. That is why top players who are playing mages are having such a nice effects as Frost. Medicore or slighty above avarage players won't pull even close numbers.

Moreover, for non hardcore guilds, versatility that Arcane gives is much more important that some additional ST DPS that Frost gives. U will met dps requirements anyway, and being able to perform any role u are assigned to i very important for any guild that is not in top 100.

i dont thinnk you realize just how big the gap is, best arcane log vs best frost log and there is a 15ish% gap in favor of the frost spec that is pretty god damn far imo, but with that said arcane is good enough to be played on pretty much everything, and it is a very diverse spec compared to frost but its a waste in nighthold bcoz most of that diversity/versatility just goes to waste on quite a few encounters, where as frost is essentially perfect for most if not all encounters in nighthold atleast those that matters.

[sjuk]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done here u go, 870k dps while not slacking on soaks.

Frost is not that far ahead as people are thinking. Currently, the best mages are playing Frost so that is kind of obviously that Frost will be higher in logs, top guild really know how to make good logs

My RL is overhyped about Frost mages as well, as i refused to reroll to frost, he tried to find few Frost mages for raid group. U know what? He wasn't able to find Frost mage that would beat me in dps. And u know why? Because Frost is much harder to play than Arcane. U have to keep your distance to shatter spells, position yourself much better etc. That is why top players who are playing mages are having such a nice effects as Frost. Medicore or slighty above avarage players won't pull even close numbers.

Moreover, for non hardcore guilds, versatility that Arcane gives is much more important that some additional ST DPS that Frost gives. U will met dps requirements anyway, and being able to perform any role u are assigned to i very important for any guild that is not in top 100.

Nice padding on the adds in the end

I stay frost in m+... usually wreck packs my lancecleaving and orb uptime. Frost is insane for higher keys.

I played arcane before and know the potential, but it just aint worth switching anymore. Plus I dont have the legs. Fire is dead to me havent played it since NH release.

Still st and cleave heavy fights in ToS aswell so I dont expect arcane to pass. Might overtake on st but not much, we'll see.

[Deleted]

what is happening to frost is quite simple.
once you reach the crit cap, you can have more and more haste, which gives a lot of dps increase.
crit cap was a bit hard to get before 7.2. Now it is quite fair and you can have very high scores of haste as well. This is why frost scales better than fire atm.
fire has no cap.

[Imaskar]

The problem with that is double ice lance is a bug, not a feature of frost to quote a friend of mine. Blizzard are trying to squelch it because it is a bug, but it is because of that bug that Frost Mages put out the damage they do. There is no guarantee that Frost will be compensated for the nerf.

Stop saying it is a bug, because it is not. Where did you get it? Nothing in spells say you can't benefit from winter's chill twice. It wasn't intended, yes. Blizz don't want it, yes. But it is NOT A BUG.

[luiswow]

What is that thing that u guys are talking about, the double ice lance. Does it increase the dps? Sry im new at frost

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

[Orwell7]

Knowing Blizzard I'm pretty sure the following will happen in 7.2.5 / ToS:

1; long-time due rework of warlocks (or just destro)
2; tank balancing (have you seen the posts about Brewmasters and Guardians?)
3; aaand that's it.

So I guess that arcane and fire will get a little bump numbers-wise, but they still won't be competitive with frost.
And they won't have time to rework frost, we would have seen a lot more posts about it or how do they want to change it.

Mages have a good spec, so they won't have to put resources in it. Frost is not an outlier even with double IL.
Maaaybe we get a nerf to it if it scales too well, but without the Guldan trinket, or the haste buffs on the Elisande and Guldan encounters, double IL will be much less prominent, so they won't need to fix it.

[Obelisk Kai]

Stop saying it is a bug, because it is not. Where did you get it? Nothing in spells say you can't benefit from winter's chill twice. It wasn't intended, yes. Blizz don't want it, yes. But it is NOT A BUG.

Call it a bug, call it a mistake, call it an oversight, whatever we call it does not matter. It is in Blizzard's crosshairs and it will not last.

I just hope we get some numbers attention in 7.2.5... I am not expecting a lot of mechanic fixes after we got a lot of attention in 7.1.5

[D3athsting]

What is that thing that u guys are talking about, the double ice lance. Does it increase the dps? Sry im new at frost

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

Double ice lance means shattering 2 critical ice lances after a firing a flurry, this is only possible at high haste levels (hero+iv) (hero+guldan trinket) and is best obtained by moving/blinking towards target between first and second ice lance, blizz stated that this is unintended gameplay and will likely be fixed...

[Afflik]

I still play fire personally. I enjoy it and since I've gotten the bracers, I compete rather well in most fights. Overall fire is underpowered and need a ST buff. I would say about 12-18% buff on all single target spells across the board is necessary. Pyroblast / Fireball / Scorch etc. Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, Living Bomb could all be left alone or given a smaller buff (5%ish).

I'm hoping for a buff for fire for 7.2.5, kind of banking on it considering I'm still playing it as my main spec.

[Zardam]

I still play fire personally. I enjoy it and since I've gotten the bracers, I compete rather well in most fights. Overall fire is underpowered and need a ST buff. I would say about 12-18% buff on all single target spells across the board is necessary. Pyroblast / Fireball / Scorch etc. Dragon's Breath, Flamestrike, Living Bomb could all be left alone or given a smaller buff (5%ish).

I'm hoping for a buff for fire for 7.2.5, kind of banking on it considering I'm still playing it as my main spec.

Fire does not compete in most fights. It's st dps is one of the worst in the game. Hopefully blizz is content with the number of players they forced out of fire during NH, and finally bring the damn spec back up to reasonable numbers.

[Afflik]

Fire does not compete in most fights. It's st dps is one of the worst in the game. Hopefully blizz is content with the number of players they forced out of fire during NH, and finally bring the damn spec back up to reasonable numbers.

Without legendaries I completely agree with you, it was terrible for me. Since getting bracers (still missing belt) it's been much better. Again, the classes should never be balanced around legendaries but still. However it is an issue when I'm getting a world #1 parse, and I'm 5th on the damage meters in my own raid.

[Deleted]

In my raid there is alot of high parsing players, esp DK/War/Aff/Rogue and fire mage which similar ilvl, fire mage is well behind 300-400k. But, we have been mentioned in a Blue post finally!

PTR Development Notes - Build 23910
Just to clarify: the specs I called out in the original post are those we're planning major rotational/mechanical changes to. We're also planning talent/balance tuning for many other specs (e.g. Fire Mage, Blood DK, others) that don't need a mechanical overhaul but could still use some numbers love. (Official Forums)

[D3athsting]

In my raid there is alot of high parsing players, esp DK/War/Aff/Rogue and fire mage which similar ilvl, fire mage is well behind 300-400k. But, we have been mentioned in a Blue post finally!

PTR Development Notes - Build 23910
Just to clarify: the specs I called out in the original post are those we're planning major rotational/mechanical changes to. We're also planning talent/balance tuning for many other specs (e.g. Fire Mage, Blood DK, others) that don't need a mechanical overhaul but could still use some numbers love. (Official Forums)

Buff fire, nerf bracers, dps will remain the same

[Deleted]

MY curent hopes for changes based on legendaries.

Balance:
- Koralon Scorch Belt: Dmg boost nerfed to 200% (was 350%)

-Pyrotex Ignition:
Phoenix Flames reduces Combustion CD by 6s (was 9s)
Combustion now generates 2 charges of Phoenix Flames and Fireblast.

- Marquee Pyro Bracers:
Multiplier reduced to 225-250% (was 300%).
15% procchance is too rng, i'd like to see 20% but makes it too OP. Also another mechanic could be to also reduce cast time by 0,5sec.
It's a hard one to balance.

- Scorch dmg increased by 60%
- Pyroblast damage increase by 30% (id like to see pyro doing more than double fireball dmg)
- Flamestrike damage increased by 25%

DPS Balance issue:
- Fire's strenght is AoE but it's not even all facets of AoE or cleave and it comes at a heavy cost of ST. Frost is unrivaled in 2target Cleave. And some are really strong in Fires AoE department while also strong in ST. How does this balancing work.
Effectively fires strenght shines in 30% of the NH bosses. But its on earlier bosses and as more gear comes into play it value decreases. However it's strenght is usefull on Guldan small eyes. Fire has slightly more soft utility than Frost or Arcane that was usefull against Trilliax Bombs and Elisande Orbs.


Gameplay issue's / changes:
- Pyroblast can no longer be hardcast unless you have a Marquee Pyrobracers proc.
- Talents Blast Wave, Blazing soul needs a rework
- Ability Blazing Barrier needs a rework (increase CD and absorption?)
- Artifact talent Molten Skin needs a rework.
- Artifact talent Warmth of the Phoenix you tend to use all phoenixes in combustion, but not major issue.
- When you take cinderstorm you always take RoP as well, that combination of AoE is too much complexity on top of the rest of the AoE stuff.
- Extreme amounts of haste does weird things, especially as hotstreak works on hit rather than on finishing spellcast. But other specs have also haste issues.

[Jersh]

They said they were gonna remove double ilance this patch already but didn't. Idk if much else came in between and stopped it or they just let it be for us "pro players" .

If they eventually get rid of this I hope they compensate with the fbolt -> flurry->ilance and you procc and waste another ilance while you fire off your flurry procc, such a waste sometimes and it keeps bugging me lol.

They never said they were going to remove double IL. They just said they were looking at it. A lot of people took this to mean that they were definitely removing it in 7.5, which wasn't the case.