Is there anyone who prefers the current MM than the 6.2 MM with instant aimed shot?

[Kredon]

At the end of WoD I wondered how Blizzard will handle the lack of that specific set bonus. I really hoped they will make it baseline for the class. Being able to to have hard hitting shots while running felt really nice. Switching to single target adds was quite effective, due to having no ramp-up time for our damage (if I remember correctly).

However, there used to be demands that there should be an observable difference between different levels of execution and skill while playing the spec. Since everything could be casted, even while moving, it didn't matter whether you could plan ahead when to move - as long as you were able to push the buttons while also using the move keys (not very challenging for most). Such requests usually wanted to have more damage while standing still. And I sometimes thought too, that it would be nice to have a specc that could perform better while not moving (or moving smartly). Sniper training contributed somewhat to that whish.

For the flavor of the specc I think it makes sense that it is required to be standing still while casting an aimed shot.

Regarding the current state of MM hunters I think the vulnerable mechanic is more annyoing than the casted aimed shot for the following reasons:
* Bringing full damage after switching a target requires some ramp up time (arcane/multi for applying vulnerable and then casting aimed). This takes some seconds before we get significant damage to a new target (up from almost instant)
* In addition to the point before we are required to have a proc to be even able to do this. It is possible to circumvent that with talents or holding back a windburst for applying vulnerable, but that might be suboptimal for the rest of the execution. Relying on the procc can also cause very annoying periods in which you have to wait for it. Very frustrating when there is a bunch of adds to AoE down and you have to wait for the procc (at least with the trick shot talent).
* The optimal rotation might require that you don't cast anything. When I rember correctly, since WotLK it was always best to always cast something (even if it is just some focus generating filler). Deferring an aimed shot to fit into the "optimal" last second of patient sniper is very distracting and does not fit well with (my) muscle memory. As far as I rember I always got into some flow performing my rotation in the past - currently, I'm still struggling with the smoothness there used to be in playing a hunter. Or maybe I'm just getting old.

[DeicideUH]

I liked the direction MM was going during WoD. Instead of continuing that direction, Blizzard changed everything and now we're stuck with the current version, which I find terrible to play.

About instant Aimed Shot, it was good to play, but I always thought it went against the general idea/flavor of a sniper taking his time to shoot. I also never liked that Aimed was the Focus dump, instead of the short-CD burst. During WoD, I wished Aimed and Chimaera Shots were swapped in the rotation, so we had an instant, quick, low damage focus dump, and a casted, short-CD, strong shot. I also thought that Steady Shot could turn instant as well.

When they announced Legion's version, I liked the idea of having an instant Focus generator (Arcane Shot) and a powerful casted Aimed Shot. However, Aimed Shot kept being the Focus dump, and Vulnerability ruined everything, making Aimed Shot really weak without it.

[Banard]

The 6.2 MM was so nice, it combined the ability to move with losing about 7% of damage if you move too much, with zero ramp up, very fun and simple yet with the room for improvement.

every Hunter spec had a better iteration in the past...legion brought 0 improvements to the class.

[Deleted]

-5.4: Good God, will we ever be anything but melee AI commanders again? BM

No way. Surv - LnL explosive shot FTW

[Wythel]

In the truly old days, Auto Shot couldn't fire on the move, so good hunters planned movement and stutter stepped to allow them to fire.

Not only this, but you had to time every Aimed Shot based on the sound/animation of your auto shot, or you delayed the next one...

[DeicideUH]

Not only this, but you had to time every Aimed Shot based on the sound/animation of your auto shot, or you delayed the next one...

I'd be fine with them just removing autoshot entirely and increasing the damage on our other shots to compensate.

[Deleted]

I think MM needs to either be faster paced like it was in 6.2, or it needs to go further towards the slower, lumbering but absolutely devastating upon hit spec it could justify being with slow, measured shots.

I don't buy into the aimed shot cast time adding anything to the difficulty of playing the spec. It's too insignificant, it can be an inconvenience if you get caught out but that is rarely the case. If there were more casts, and a more interesting dynamic between them where you spent a little bit of a time building up a much more powerful vulnerable window with a slower aimed shot cast it could feel really rewarding.

I'd happily trade my circa 3m aimed shots for closer to treble that but with more effort to obtain. Although I don't know how high they can get right now with the right legendaries pushing it higher as I've only not got any of the decent dps ones (prydaz & voodoo my highest simming)

[Deleted]

6.2 mm is favourite for alot of people because the skill required to make it work was non existant.

legion MM requires in depth knowledge of rotation/positioning in pvp/pve so as a skilled player i enjoy it very much.

[threads]

every Hunter spec had a better iteration in the past...legion brought 0 improvements to the class.

definitely agree with this. legion hunter is trash.

[globenstine]

instant aimed shots would honestly just be more cancerous as long as we have to snapshot the tail end of vulnerable anyways. the devs have made it very clear that they like vulnerable and its here to stay whether we like it or not. that being said an "EASY" fix would be to just make aimed shot cast able while moving. vulnerable wouldn't be nearly as cancerous of a play style if it wasn't a tiny damage window on top of not being able to move while trying to capitalize on it.

[SL1200]

I want my pet back. They've ruined hunters.

[globenstine]

Not only this, but you had to time every Aimed Shot based on the sound/animation of your auto shot, or you delayed the next one...

or you just used that handy dandy macro that did everything for you and scrolled your mouse wheel to victory.

[Qman]

This is the first expansion ever I am playing BM (and I am into hunter since Vanilla). It is a crying shame what they did to Survival.

[Deleted]

I don't think I've liked MM so much since classic. The extra range, stealth and no pet is still something i enjoy alot everyday. The rotation is decent. Not a big fan of vulnerable/marked or windburst and its a little "spammy"/fast, but overall ok. Atleast we dont have fucking instant aimed shots, chimeara shit(instant) and snakes from our shoulders anymore.

Slow is good and it really sounds like u guys just want a rotation called "jump->AiS->jump->AiS->jump->AiS->jump" while running in circles. Fuck that!

[Mnesymne]

Imo Wildstar had a mechanic that could work for Aimed Shot . If you just pressed the button it would cast an instant shot, but if you hold the button down it would "charge up" and increase in damagelevels. So fex 1-1.5 sec > 150% dmg, 1.5-2sec 200% damage and then 4 sec 500% damage. This way you needed to choose what charge of shot was right for the curret situation.

[Tharkkun]

It's a shame because in the same patch Protection Paladins had a wonderful set bonus where Avenger's Shield gave you an absorb effect, which added much-needed mitigation value to a spell that, if it weren't for its Holy Power generation, was more DPS-oriented. When Holy Power was removed, if they didn't change Avenger's Shield at all it would have had no mitigation value at all. So what did they do? They took that set bonus and made it baseline (or rather, an artefact trait). This made perfect sense. They took a very popular and well-designed 4-set bonus and baked it into a class which had the dual effect of adding more depth and, like I said, adding much-needed mitigation value to a spell that almost had none. No weird half-solution, compromise, or unnecessary overhaul*; just a simple and effective change that betters the class.

Protection Paladins are, in my opinion, a Legion class design success story. When I play a Protection Paladin, I really do feel that they preserved all the things that made them good in prior expansions while also adding enough new to make it feel fresh. It's exactly the route all Legion classes should have gone down because they looked to the prior successes of the spec to know where to go in the future. I'm talking about this spec because it's amazing and inexplicable how Blizzard could get it so right with tankadins and so WRONG with Hunters. They did the exact opposite with Hunters; they threw out most of the old mechanics and disregarded what made Hunters well-loved and successful in previous expansions in favour of a 'radical new direction'... only to end up with all 3 specs being more despised than ever. As it turns out, 'new' isn't always 'good' and innovation for innovation's sake leads to design failure.

*I mention these things because it seems like this is all Hunters get in Legion. Whenever Hunters don't like a mechanic Blizzard ardently defends it and comes up with a bizarre and ineffective solution that pleases nobody involved. Look at how they handled Vulnerability in 7.1.5. Look at how they are handling Dire Beast and Mantle of Command in 7.2.5. I actually think they are so unwilling to admit fault that they avoid player-suggested solutions and instead opt for convoluted nonsense so they can feel as if they didn't give in to popular demand. That's probably just me being paranoid but it certainly feels that way and it would explain some of the insane nonsense that comes out of the class design team all the time nowadays.

I think Paladins have been in a good place for about 3 expansions now so it made it easier. They didn't need to prune much to give each spec an identity.

Honestly they could've baked the 4 piece bonus in and added potentially another shot into the spec as filler such as Windburst. Leave the focus generation from steady shot for the MM spec. Then add vulnerability in for people who wanted to min/max the spec. Maybe even make patient sniper a larger penalty for moving such as 5 seconds to trigger buff, moving more than 1 second removes it. Then we'd be penalized for moving while maintaining the ability to do so. They just went super crazy in an attempt to make the specs unique.

I personally like the dot aspect of Survival the most. But Blizzard couldn't buff it without making it more OP in PVP than it already was. With Legion's PVP template that wouldn't be an issue but they had already made it melee.

[Feanoro]

I'd be fine with them just removing autoshot entirely and increasing the damage on our other shots to compensate.

You have no idea what you're asking them to do, they've tried removing auto damage before and it was a ROYAL mess.

or you just used that handy dandy macro that did everything for you and scrolled your mouse wheel to victory.

That was in BC, using Steady Shot as BM (hello retarded 20% haste talent!).

- - - Updated - - -

No way. Surv - LnL explosive shot FTW

Oh I know, but it was a gnat's ass behind, which was more than enough at the time to get you dogpiled here by foaming at the mouth BM zealots when trying to discuss SV in SoO.

[Emerald Archer]

input lag alone makes MM awful now

What? Just fix your settings. That's a non-issue.

[DeicideUH]

You have no idea what you're asking them to do, they've tried removing auto damage before and it was a ROYAL mess.

Now I'm curious. Can you enlighten me about it?

[samao]

What? Just fix your settings. That's a non-issue.

Bullshit. WoW has a problem with rubberbanding if a button is pressed slightly too early. It makes Vulnerable much more annoying.