For or Against Home Owners' Associations where you live?

[Xirrohon]

I am FOR but some get a bit too expensive. It keeps the neighborhood nice and clean. It also maintains homeowner value.

Some can be pricey though. Mine recently went up to $80/month a bit expensive if you ask me.

[Phlegethon]

In many American neighborhoods, people get together and form HOAs that dictate all kinds of things to ensure property value stays high as possible. Like the color you can paint your house for example, or types of hedges or all kinds of things. They vary from not very strict to super strict. They also generally require dues be paid. Sometimes, they actually pay for all your yard maintenance to be done by contractors.

Can they actually tell you what to do if you decide not to join said association?
I'd just tell them to fuck off and paint my house bright pink to spite them.

[Orlong]

Seller and HOA, if the seller is delinquent on payments or breaches their contract, the HOA has it in the contract that they will file a lien or lis pends, thus making the house title unmarketable... you cant really sell unless you can find a buyer willing to take up the cost of the lien or lis pendens.

Now this will be rare to find a buyer because
1. A bank or mortgage company wont go near it without title insurance
2. you aint gettin a title insurance company to sign anything that has a lis pendens or a lien like that since they aint covering that for you.
3. Be prepared to sell the house at a fraction of the value

But how can they put a lien on it after its sold to me. If a seller sells before the HOA can find out, they cannot put a lien on it since I never had a contract with them.

[GennGreymane]

But how can they put a lien on it after its sold to me. If a seller sells before the HOA can find out, they cannot put a lien on it since I never had a contract with them.

Thats not gonna happen. A bank for a mortgage and a title insurance company would be aware or would become aware there is an HOA.

[Phlegethon]

depends on a number of factors. do you have to join the HOA if you wish to purchase the house? if so, then you know this in advance and are able to determine if you're ok with this part of the transaction. if so, then you shouldn't have a problem with the HOA. now, if you didn't know about the HOA before buying the home, they should have no say over you at all. on the other hand, if you're trashy life style is damaging other peoples home/neighborhood value, one should be able to sue in this case; i believe this is why a lot of HOA's exist is the provide a mediating factor before lawyers and police are called in...some folks are just trashy and lazy.

Thing is, if they have the means to live in a neighbourhoud with nice houses, they probably are not trashy.
Other than that, I thought freedom was the highest good in that country. The freedom to trash your place is one of those things you should uphold. I don't think you can sue. Then again, you can sue if you're too stupid to remove your clothes before ironing them, so, ...

[Katchii]

Really depends on the community and the HoA. There are ridiculous ones with absurd requirements and restrictions and there are reasonable ones that aren't so restrictive.

I personally don't mind the looser ones, but having the freedom of living without one is pretty amazing.....so long as you live in a decent neighborhood already. Nothing worse than having a bunch of weirdos with no responsibilities who don't take care of their yards and do crazy shit with their house to ruin an entire neighborhood and it's property value.

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Thing is, if they have the means to live in a neighbourhoud with nice houses, they probably are not trashy.
Other than that, I thought freedom was the highest good in that country. The freedom to trash your place is one of those things you should uphold. I don't think you can sue. Then again, you can sue if you're too stupid to remove your clothes before ironing them, so, ...

Having the means to live in a nice house doesn't automatically make them responsible or reasonable home owners. There is such thing as a bad renter, which is a tragedy, but shit happens and can obliterate the value of a home and people can get into bad situations with jobs and whatnot which can also result in a home going to shit.

[Orlong]

I suspect it has more to do with property value.
I'm usually against having an HOA, but...

If Joe Shmo just purchased a house next to you and the first thing he does is put his problem car on cinderblocks on the front lawn...where as you were trying to sell your own house for a nice tidy profit...well, don't expect to sell anytime soon.
And then there's the house bought in "historical" districts. (I can see that having an HOA would be pretty much a requirement in such places)

People shouldnt be buying a house and selling it again before they are dead or need to move into a nursing home. What ever happened to the days where people got their first good job, bought a home and stayed for life passing it down through the generations

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Thats not gonna happen. A bank for a mortgage and a title insurance company would be aware or would become aware there is an HOA.

What if I pay cash for it?

[prwraith]

Pro.

Don't need neighbors moving in trashing their house and bringing my property value down.

Plus I actually like driving through clean neighborhoods...

[dvaz]

For. x100

I pay extra to live in an safe, nice neighborhood with nice schools / parks and watnot.

We don't want ghetto trash moving in and fucking things up for everyone.

[chazus]

Mixed feelings.

Largely, my HOA is a pain. $160 a month, and I've gotten fined for
1) Having a non-white curtain in my window
2) Not having my address on the back door entrance
3) Leaving my car parked in the same spot too long (I didn't drive it for a couple weeks)

Meanwhile, really all they've done for the most part is fix some roofing stuff, which I imagine is expensive, but not the $2000/year expensive. They have other functions too but it's all low level stuff that I imagine I could handle.

[GennGreymane]

People shouldnt be buying a house and selling it again before they are dead or need to move into a nursing home. What ever happened to the days where people got their first good job, bought a home and stayed for life passing it down through the generations

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What if I pay cash for it?

Whose gonna sell? What if you're state requires title insurance? What if you can't sell later in life or transfer title because of the lins pends? A lien and a Lis pens will be on the record for the property, they are not on you. Also the seller will e liable and there are dozens of other laws that mah be a problem. It's easier to not buy a home in an hoa

[Krigaren]

House HoAs aren't always the worst, but condo HoAs are the spawn of satan.

Old people generally live in condos, and retired old people have nothing better to do than peer out their windows, keep notebooks of everyone's comings and goings, and make the biggest fuss over the smallest, most innane details. Then they get the HoA to find you for them, since they (or their neighborhood best friend / political ally) are on the HoA board.

Friend's mom has been dealing with this forever. Got fined for working on her garden, even though she had permission (in writing) from the HoA, but the board decided to change the rules specifically so they could fine her anyway.

Got fined again for having her RV parked in her driveway overnight before she and her boyfriend went on a trip.

Got fined again because her BBQ was blown onto it's side during a windstorm while she was in Florida.

Got fined again because her smoke alarm was low on battery and was beeping, while she was in Florida, because it's a "noise hazard".

HoAs are a complete goddamn nightmare.

[GennGreymane]

Also
@Orlong

an HOA is generally going to add a covenant to the deed, thus transfer of the deed will transfer the terms of the HOA to a new owner.

[cuafpr]

But how can they put a lien on it after its sold to me. If a seller sells before the HOA can find out, they cannot put a lien on it since I never had a contract with them.

an HOA can foreclose on a house, heck houses have been sold by an HOA while the owners were away. some have WAY to much power. As for a lien its the same as if you bought a house and previous owner didn't pay for the new roof, the contractor can and will put a lien on what is now your house for the bill of the roof, and when you go to sell you are screwed.

[chazus]

But how can they put a lien on it after its sold to me. If a seller sells before the HOA can find out, they cannot put a lien on it since I never had a contract with them.

Everything goes through processes.

You can't sell a house without HOA's involvement. Nor can you buy. And they can put a lien on it because if you have a mortgage, you don't technically 'own' your house.

[Orlong]

Also
@Orlong

an HOA is generally going to add a covenant to the deed, thus transfer of the deed will transfer the terms of the HOA to a new owner.

How can they legally do that? They didnt buy the house, nor front the money for it, nor do they own the land its built on, and therefore should have no legal say in how its sold, beyond taking the previous owner who joined the HOA to court for breach of contract if they dont make sure the new owner joins

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Everything goes through processes.

You can't sell a house without HOA's involvement. Nor can you buy. And they can put a lien on it because if you have a mortgage, you don't technically 'own' your house.

But the HOA doesnt own it either. They dont loan money in the form of a mortgage

[Polyxo]

I've only really lived in apartments. I would avoid homeowners associations in general though. They kind of seem like the 'popular girls' click just kind of re-litigating high school all over again.

[GennGreymane]

How can they legally do that? They didnt buy the house, nor front the money for it, nor do they own the land its built on, and therefore should have no legal say in how its sold, beyond taking the previous owner who joined the HOA to court for breach of contract if they dont make sure the new owner joins

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But the HOA doesnt own it either. They dont loan money in the form of a mortgage

Its a covenant, an agreement. Chances are the seller, (or more likely) a prior owner, agreed to it and it was added to the deed (likley during the HOA formation). That gives the HOA a legal say. Since its incorporated into the deed, if you get the deed, you will be bound to the covenant.

[Rasulis]

Who is the contract between though. If Im a buyer and youre a seller, any contract is between you and me, not the HOA. The HOA isnt listed as an owner on the deed, so in my opinion they can keep their nose out of my business

The HoA membership requirement is tied to the deed/title of the property. You have to sign an HoA membership agreement to buy the property. That will be the condition for sale.

If you don’t sign it, either the bank won’t fund your loan, or even if you pay cash, the title company and the County will not do the property transfer.

Once you sign the agreement, which will be notarized, you are bound to is just like any other legal agreement. You are obligated to pay your monthly dues and follow the HoA by-laws.

It is not all one sided. Our HoA maintains a golf course (which the home owners have priority access), three large parks, two restaurants, a bar, 16 miles of horse trail, a resort, world class tennis courts, two Olympic size heated swimming pools, etc. Our development is off the beaten path, so the County only maintain the road, but the HoA maintain the landscaping. The HoA also maintains the creeks and drainage channels (keep them clear from accumulated debris). The HoA also provide additional unarmed security patrol in addition to the Sherif department.

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depends on a number of factors. do you have to join the HOA if you wish to purchase the house? if so, then you know this in advance and are able to determine if you're ok with this part of the transaction. if so, then you shouldn't have a problem with the HOA. now, if you didn't know about the HOA before buying the home, they should have no say over you at all. on the other hand, if you're trashy life style is damaging other peoples home/neighborhood value, one should be able to sue in this case; i believe this is why a lot of HOA's exist is the provide a mediating factor before lawyers and police are called in...some folks are just trashy and lazy.

That, and there are a lot of private developments out there whose roads and/or utilities were never transferred to the City/County. Therefore, they stayed private, and need a funding mechanism to maintain and repair. Hence an HoA was formed.

I actually did a development in mid 1990s in Jamul. Only 9 houses up on top of a ridge. The 2-mile long concrete access road from the main road was super steep and did not meet the County’s standard for the grade. So the 9 home owners had to have their own small HoA. It was built into their deeds and part of the County's building permit process. Some HoAs are even smaller than that. A friend of mine bought a Victorian house in SF and converted it into four units condominiums (2 on the ground floor and 2 on the first floor). He had to set up something similar to an HoA to maintain the common area (backyard, etc.).

[Rudkobing]

I just don't like the concept of a bunch of assholes telling me what color the house is or what kind of flowers I have in my garden.