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  1. #1201
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    perfect title: "welcome to capitalism baby"©
    I suppose it because he looks like "dirty asian". I don't think they are even try to kick a white man in jacket. Also exuses from this company sooooo pathetic. Pretty sure problem not in just this one "security officer" because every1 else simply assist him. Not trying to stop his obviously unlawful actions. So pretty hope this asian doctor will punish them with nice plaint. Especially if his patient got some kind of harm.
    People sure do make up interesting stories to tie in whatever their own beliefs are.

  2. #1202
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Airlines don't make much money and flights are quite cheap already. You simply don't have any idea what you're talking about.
    what's your definition of not much?

    United made 4.5 billion in profit (after costs) in 2015-2016.

    that doesn't seem like a struggling business to me.

  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    Just because this time it got videoed does not mean it doesn't happen with other airlines.
    Indeed, I saw a documentary once about a German soldier who was beaten up and chucked off a Zeppelin by an American archeologist because he couldn't find his ticket! He survived though after landing on a pile of cases. When he tracked the archeologist down to talk about compensation he got beaten up again by him and his father then strapped to a tank which was run off a cliff!

    I think the moral of the documentary was that airlines are worse than Nazis.

  4. #1204
    Quote Originally Posted by leetbean View Post
    what's your definition of not much?

    United made 4.5 billion in profit (after costs) in 2015-2016.

    that doesn't seem like a struggling business to me.
    I didn't say they're struggling, I said they don't make much money. Their profit margins are quite low. From The Economist link:
    Despite incredible growth, airlines have not come close to returning the cost of capital, with profit margins of less than 1% on average over that period. In 2012 they made profits of only $4 for every passenger carried.
    I don't know if United's 2015 turns out to be an outlier and is a few percent instead of just one or two percent, but the idea that they've got tons of cash floating around and should just make less is not really plausible.

  5. #1205
    Immortal Zelk's Avatar
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    Nationalise airlines imo

  6. #1206
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohoots View Post
    he's a doctor on the way back to take care of patients if one of them died would the airline be open to accept a lawsuit for wrongful death? for keeping a doctor away from his patients?
    We don't know if one of his patients "would have died". He could be a dentist. He could be a vet. He could be a psychologist. There are all kinds of doctors there exist that have patients. That still doesn't give him the right to disobey a direct lawful order from a police officer.

  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    Nationalise airlines imo
    Nobody ever complained on Aeroflot! XD

  8. #1208
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Never said doesn't. Times have changed now, though. More people have recording devices.
    That is correct. More than likely a passenger that doesn't have one is in the minority.

  9. #1209
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I didn't say they're struggling, I said they don't make much money. Their profit margins are quite low. From The Economist link:

    I don't know if United's 2015 turns out to be an outlier and is a few percent instead of just one or two percent, but the idea that they've got tons of cash floating around and should just make less is not really plausible.
    $4.5 billion isn't "much money" to you? that sounds like a great year to me.

    don't get so hung up on margins. business models vary depending on industry. for example, accountants have ~%20 profit margins on average while petroleum wholesalers average ~0.2%.

    $4/passenger in profit is pretty good when you are talking about hundreds of millions of people.
    Last edited by leetbean; 2017-04-11 at 01:17 PM.

  10. #1210
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    Nationalise airlines imo
    If you think we have problems now just imagine the problems we would have if the government ran them. It would be another black hole for money.

  11. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Yes the airline screwed up. But it is also pretty clear that they weren't able to fix their problem without the co-operation of the passengers. At this point people should be pragmatic, not because it is required of them, but because it results in the best outcome for everyone concerned.
    They weren't able to fix the problem because they appear to have deep pockets and short arms. If $800 worth of vouchers (and let's be honest for many they will, for many different reasons, be worthless) is not enough to persuade passengers to give up their seat then they need to offer more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Fair enough, but it was probably more than what they were legally obliged to offer, and I am pretty certain that when this passenger refused to exit the plane, he would have been in contravention with the law (hence bringing the police into the picture).
    A bad situation that is handled well is one of the best forms of advertising and methods of gaining customer loyalty as a result businesses, all over the globe, go above and beyond their legal obligations to meet their customers' expectations and minimise the disruption they cause when they get things wrong.

    United caused the problem and handled it badly therefore I am 100% sure that this will (and already has) cost them more than they are legally obliged to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Please explain how it is a strawman?
    Really?? So you don't actually realise that you do this? Interesting.

  12. #1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Yeah and they don't rewrite them for no reason. They get challenged, if something is struck down they, they change it to something else. It gets challenged again, this time its upheld, etc... Over and over and over for decades now to where they all are pretty much the same generic contract that has survived the scrutiny of the courts. Adhesion contracts are stronger than they have ever been for this reason.
    What ever you say amigo

  13. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    perfect title: "welcome to capitalism baby"©
    I suppose it because he looks like "dirty asian". I don't think they are even try to kick a white man in jacket. Also exuses from this company sooooo pathetic. Pretty sure problem not in just this one "security officer" because every1 else simply assist him. Not trying to stop his obviously unlawful actions. So pretty hope this asian doctor will punish them with nice plaint. Especially if his patient got some kind of harm.
    So you are saying they did this because of his race? How pathetic. He and three others were randomly chosen. The other three didn't resist. He chose to resist. Not only did he resist once, he resisted twice. This has nothing to do with race.
    It wasn't a security officer, it was the police.

  14. #1214
    Quote Originally Posted by leetbean View Post
    $4.5 billion isn't "much money" to you? that sounds like a great year to me.

    don't get so hung up on margins. business models vary depending on industry. for example, accountants have ~%20 profit margins on average while petroleum wholesalers average ~0.2%.

    $4/passenger in profit is pretty good when you are talking about hundreds of millions of people.
    For a very large business? No, that's not really anything so striking that it should highlight any sort of "wow, they're really raking it in" response. It does seem like they had a better year than usual though.

    The point of mentioning the per passenger number is to say that there isn't the sort of wiggle room that people seem to believe there is. Airlines make money on volume, not by wildly overcharging passengers. People that are convinced that United can just switch to a no-overbooking model and just cut CEO pay and it'll be perfect are being really silly.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    He was screaming because he was being beaten. And he came back mumbling because he had a concussion from having his face smashed in.
    They were not beating him. He started screaming right when they grabbed him, they had done nothing at that point but grab him to move him out of his seat. Its pretty clear that he hit his lip on the rail of the seat across the aisle. He wasnt unconscious, he was acting like a little child. Like I said, I bet it comes back that this guy has some kind of mental disorder.

  16. #1216
    Quote Originally Posted by Allybeboba View Post
    We don't know if one of his patients "would have died". He could be a dentist. He could be a vet. He could be a psychologist. There are all kinds of doctors there exist that have patients. That still doesn't give him the right to disobey a direct lawful order from a police officer.
    In fact, the odds of a patient dying because a single doctor failed to make a flight are staggeringly low. Most docs are not Dr. House, most surgeries can be rescheduled, most checkups aren't actually the end of world, and most hospitals can backfill staff if an emergency comes up.

    So, yeah, the "I'm a doctor!" seems a lot more like a "do you know who I am???" than like there's a genuine emergency. The chances that this individual had unique expertise and was flying somewhere that he was the only person that could safe a life would make a good movie, but isn't super common.

  17. #1217
    Quote Originally Posted by Xirrohon View Post
    They were not beating him. He started screaming right when they grabbed him, they had done nothing at that point but grab him to move him out of his seat. Its pretty clear that he hit his lip on the rail of the seat across the aisle. He wasnt unconscious, he was acting like a little child. Like I said, I bet it comes back that this guy has some kind of mental disorder.
    He was unconscious when he was being dragged out.

    Acting like a child? No, that's fucking United who fucked up and still can't accept that they fucked up.

  18. #1218
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    nobody hit him he fell forward and hit his face on a hand support.... it was an accident

    the flight was not going to move unless a passenger was removed his behaviour was unacceptable

    if he followed the orders of people who were in charge of the place none of this would of happened most of the responsibility for this incident is with him
    No, the responsibility is with United. They're the ones that fucked up. They're the ones that escalated the situation.

  19. #1219
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    In fact, the odds of a patient dying because a single doctor failed to make a flight are staggeringly low. Most docs are not Dr. House, most surgeries can be rescheduled, most checkups aren't actually the end of world, and most hospitals can backfill staff if an emergency comes up.

    So, yeah, the "I'm a doctor!" seems a lot more like a "do you know who I am???" than like there's a genuine emergency. The chances that this individual had unique expertise and was flying somewhere that he was the only person that could safe a life would make a good movie, but isn't super common.
    I totally agree. He used the whole "do you know I am" card and it didn't work. We really don't even know if this person is a doctor. For some strange reason his name hasn't even been released. We are just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

  20. #1220
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    No, the responsibility is with United. They're the ones that fucked up. They're the ones that escalated the situation.
    He was asked several times to leave. He refused. They took him off. Even after they took him off he ran back onto the plane.
    He was fighting police officers. Would you fight police officers?

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