[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Supliftz]

Mistweaver doesn't work without Geodew.

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[cqwrteur]

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

C'mon. you need be more lololol.

[Tiphess]

Is it really that hard to believe?

Logs of top MW'ers show some of them using 4pce, some not, some stacking haste, some stacking vers, some rushed 4th golden, some filled out their 3/4 traits. The entire spec is an up in the air shit show at the moment.

I was mostly referring to him outperforming everyone.

[Buildapanda]

I was mostly referring to him outperforming everyone.

I already quit my guild because of the toxicity in competitive environments, you guys got what you want. I'll be back, I'll be around, I'll be here when your spec dies a slow and agonizing death while you are still trying to use it in competitive raiding, but I'm done, I'm tired of constantly being harassed and bullied and putting on a happy face for everyone and acting like everything is okay. No I don't care to prove to you that your statement is true or false. I already reported your comment for flamebaiting and the mods refused to do anything about it so I assume it's fair game now.

[Rekkal]

You care way too much about this fight Buildpanda, if playing MW is that insufferable I suggest maybe you quit the game or reroll classes. You also dont help your case by making huge sweeping statements and getting called out on them by people who actually know what they are talking about. Im not saying you are incorrect about everything and you do raise some valid points about mistweavers current state, but I dont think insulting everyone in this forum or the peak of serenity discord is the best way to go about gettin those problems fixed.

[Myta]

Half the MWs who regularly post in the MW community either quit the game or rerolled to better healers. But you're right, MW is totally fine.

I've played and been asked to play many healers in the past, but I love MW and I'm not sure why. I played Warrior in Vanilla, and it's maybe that I love being the underdog. Either way I still find MW fun to play (probably because I don't raid as MW right now) despite that.

It would probably help if the community understood though, that MW is not in a good place right now, and from there discussed what to do about it constructively.

[Rakoth]

Half the MWs who regularly post in the MW community either quit the game or rerolled to better healers. But you're right, MW is totally fine.

I've played and been asked to play many healers in the past, but I love MW and I'm not sure why. I played Warrior in Vanilla, and it's maybe that I love being the underdog. Either way I still find MW fun to play (probably because I don't raid as MW right now) despite that.

It would probably help if the community understood though, that MW is not in a good place right now, and from there discussed what to do about it constructively.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. Or at least I didn't see much outside of that in the last 10 or so pages. I do think MWer is in a bad state. Now, when I argue, I usually argue that it doesn't matter to me that we are in a bad state, because I am not in a competitive enough environment for that. Does it feel bad that I know my class is performing poorly. No.

WW is dead last in ST. MWer doesn't do that well in a raid. But that won't make me quit. I am hopeful for 7.2.5. After that... I don't know.

[Buildapanda]

You care way too much about this fight Buildpanda, if playing MW is that insufferable I suggest maybe you quit the game or reroll classes. You also dont help your case by making huge sweeping statements and getting called out on them by people who actually know what they are talking about. Im not saying you are incorrect about everything and you do raise some valid points about mistweavers current state, but I dont think insulting everyone in this forum or the peak of serenity discord is the best way to go about gettin those problems fixed.

I have nothing to prove to you so I don't understand why you keep attacking me directly. I said I outperform my peers despite going against the theorycrafting. Oh and I take tft and still out perform people taking mana tea. I play this game not for optimal HPS but for winning boss fights. You work together with the strengths of your healer team and if your team lacks good spot healing. Oh and I don't call myself buildapanda anymore, I call myself manatoilet, and I have no BIS legendaries.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...atoilet/simple

[Deleted]

man .... that's great ...

[Livingmists]

I have nothing to prove to you so I don't understand why you keep attacking me directly. I said I outperform my peers despite going against the theorycrafting. Oh and I take tft and still out perform people taking mana tea. I play this game not for optimal HPS but for winning boss fights. You work together with the strengths of your healer team and if your team lacks good spot healing. Oh and I don't call myself buildapanda anymore, I call myself manatoilet, and I have no BIS legendaries.

I dont understand how any of this works together.

I said I outperform my peers despite going against the theorycrafting. Oh and I take tft and still out perform people taking mana tea.

ok so youre out preforming them. youre either pulling more hps...

I play this game not for optimal HPS but for winning boss fights. You work together with the strengths of your healer team and if your team lacks good spot healing.

ok so youre not out healing your peers. but you preform better than them so you must be farther progressed than them!

Mistweaver Monk | The Nighthold 10/10 Heroic | Ahead of the Curve - 1/23/2017 | 7/10 Mythic|

ok so youre only 7/10. so youre not out progressing a lot of people. You also have boots and wrists for legendaries so you have the 3rd and 4th. boots arent much worse than prydaz. but of course velens is better than both by a good margin. but youre not out preforming others that dont have either also. I'm seriously confused by this.

[cqwrteur]

I dont understand how any of this works together.



ok so youre out preforming them. youre either pulling more hps...



ok so youre not out healing your peers. but you preform better than them so you must be farther progressed than them!



ok so youre only 7/10. so youre not out progressing a lot of people. You also have boots and wrists for legendaries so you have the 3rd and 4th. boots arent much worse than prydaz. but of course velens is better than both by a good margin. but youre not out preforming others that dont have either also. I'm seriously confused by this.

welcome to echo chamber

[Kuruption]

It would probably help if the community understood though, that MW is not in a good place right now, and from there discussed what to do about it constructively.

I think most of the community knows MW is in a bad spot. I was a monk since the launch of MoP, but swapped to Disc Priest at the start of the year because I hated the way it healed (granted, I don't do mythic raids).

And honestly, I come to this thread just to see the shit that's spewed back and forth, because that's all this thread is now. There's hardly anything constructive left in it, it's mostly just people telling other people the class is shit, and others saying it's not, and it's just a fight after that.

[cqwrteur]

I think most of the community knows MW is in a bad spot. I was a monk since the launch of MoP, but swapped to Disc Priest at the start of the year because I hated the way it healed (granted, I don't do mythic raids).

And honestly, I come to this thread just to see the shit that's spewed back and forth, because that's all this thread is now. There's hardly anything constructive left in it, it's mostly just people telling other people the class is shit, and others saying it's not, and it's just a fight after that.

Getting a conclusion that this spec is shit is great since people don't need flame each other any more.

Stop starting more wars on this boring topic.

[Nyel]

Stop starting more wars on this boring topic. People need discuss this topic less.

This.

It's sad to see how toxic the Mistweaver forum is (either here or on the official page). There can't be any discussion because there are some entitled players who think only their opinion is right, only their experience counts and that's it. Such behaviour creates a very unhealthy community and the results are pretty counterproductive for the entire specialization. I just wish we could discuss every MW-related topic in a decent and appropriate manner.

[Deleted]

I think most of the community knows MW is in a bad spot. I was a monk since the launch of MoP, but swapped to Disc Priest at the start of the year because I hated the way it healed (granted, I don't do mythic raids).

And honestly, I come to this thread just to see the shit that's spewed back and forth, because that's all this thread is now. There's hardly anything constructive left in it, it's mostly just people telling other people the class is shit, and others saying it's not, and it's just a fight after that.

Everything has already been discussed multiple times since alpha: utility, mana problems and so on. You can go back to the first pages if you wish and realize that most of those posts still stand as today, very little has changed. All talents are set in stone (there isnt much choice anyway unless you switch from raiding to mythic+), rotations and stats weights are done. People also moved away from forums to join the discord channel which is constantly active.

Im honestly looking forward to 7.2.5 but I can understand the people who are skeptical.

[Myta]

This.

It's sad to see how toxic the Mistweaver forum is (either here or on the official page). There can't be any discussion because there are some entitled players who think only their opinion is right, only their experience counts and that's it. Such behaviour creates a very unhealthy community and the results are pretty counterproductive for the entire specialization. I just wish we could discuss every MW-related topic in a decent and appropriate manner.

That's pretty revisionist. The people who saw the writing on the wall during beta were repeatedly mocked, infracted(on MMO-C) and even driven off the forums in many cases (Especially on official Healing forums before they shut down). Now everyone cannot doubt MW is in a terrible place, people are acting as if they always new MWs were in a terrible place.

People were repeatedly told 'it would be fine' and that they were 'doomsaying'. All people were trying to point out was that they knew this was coming, people knew we would devolve into Essence Font bots. Yet other MWs and other healers in general constantly downvoted actual feedback on the Wow forums, mocked the people who were warning MWs of the issues cropping up during Legion Beta. And we were incapable of giving good feedback during Beta as every genuine criticism was met with this wall of the cliquish MW community who refused to see anything as being wrong about the class, period. And I was nearly banned from MMO-C several times for saying the truth about the MW during beta and not shutting up about it, and now a year later every criticism I made of MW in that time turned out to be 100% true and most of the people who slandered me have rerolled or quit the game.

People knew that MW was overestimated in Beta and over-nerfed (especially Mastery) and we have the MW of today. And no matter what people say, even in HFC, MW has never been a top3 healer, we have enjoyed maybe weeks of overpoweredness at a time, but the best MW has ever been in the history of the class is "I don't feel bad about giving this great player a raid slot".

To fix MW we have to face this reality, to cut the BS, cut the revisionism and face the genuine problems this class has or we will never be able to give proper feedback. Maybe 7.2.5 PTR will be our chance to give genuine feedback and get changes made, but it requires people to get out of their bubbles and actually see what's going on with MWs as a whole.

[Supliftz]

And I was nearly banned from MMO-C several times for saying the truth about the MW during beta and not shutting up about it, and now a year later every criticism I made of MW in that time turned out to be 100% true and most of the people who slandered me have rerolled or quit the game.

I highlighed the important part of that statement

An entire year past. That's a very big deal considering the beta was out for like 7 months? A lot can change in 7 months, and what a surprise so did mistweaver. I could say in Mists of Pandaria that resto druid is underpowered, and will stay underpowered for the rest of time, and that's irrelevant in context. This is why I hate this logic. You can't actually fight it because in the off-chance you are right, you look like a genius, and if you're wrong, you can claim "x made mistweaver is good".

Mistweaver was actually a good spec on Alpha/Beta, but it was massively nerfed. Fistweaving used to do top tier hps, and 100k-110k dps, and was dumpstered multiple times via direct nerfs to sotc and rt, and indirect nerfs to renewing mist, vivify mana cost, and legendaries. Lifecycles used to be A LOT better, and so did a lot of talents.

And no matter what people say, even in HFC, MW has never been a top3 healer, we have enjoyed maybe weeks of overpoweredness at a time, but the best MW has ever been in the history of the class is "I don't feel bad about giving this great player a raid slot".

Mistweaver was top 3 in HFC lol.

And it was top 3 in ToT, and was top 3 in 10 man SoO. It was also top 3 in Highmaul, and only saw a downturn to #4 in BRF when shamans got mega buffed.

How about we cut the crap about how mistweaver was eternally bad, when the spec has always been seen in world first progression, and after the rework, it wasn't seen at all in world first progression.

To fix MW we have to face this reality, to cut the BS, cut the revisionism and face the genuine problems this class has or we will never be able to give proper feedback. Maybe 7.2.5 PTR will be our chance to give genuine feedback and get changes made, but it requires people to get out of their bubbles and actually see what's going on with MWs as a whole.

Talking about the past is only relevant when you're talking about spec representation in WF prog. Mistweaver used to be played in world first kills, and in legion, Mistweaver completely died off as a competitive raiding spec.

What I don't like when people talk about Mistweaver in Legion is when they talk about mistweaver was good at all in legion. Mistweaver has literally never been good in the live game.

[Myta]

Talking about the past is only relevant when you're talking about spec representation in WF prog. Mistweaver used to be played in world first kills, and in legion, Mistweaver completely died off as a competitive raiding spec.

What I don't like when people talk about Mistweaver in Legion is when they talk about mistweaver was good at all in legion. Mistweaver has literally never been good in the live game.

Spec representation at all levels matters, and retention rate matters. MW was good in HFC, it required an OP set bonus to be good. It was by no means or stretch of any definition a top 3 healer, it was yes, 4th best healer. With the standing being Disc>Hpal>Sham>MW. And the reason why Sham has consistently been a top3 healer has been that they have A) A mastery that matters. B) Health buffs on their heals both A, and B offset lack of gear. C) Ascendance + Spirit Link is the strongest healer CD combo in the entire game. Whenever MW has been overpowered in any facet it is nerfed into the dust. MW has never been allowed to be strong at anything. I remember saying this before.

But until MW is allowed to be strong at anything like other healers are allowed (and I use the term 'allowed' deliberately because Blizzard deliberately keeps MW in a quasi-limbo between okay and garbage), it will never be accepted guilds and the community as a whole as a strong and valuable asset to a guild. No one has ever said "Holy shit, we need a MW in our guild, they are so good!" A few days of being brokenly strong do now count, the closest we came was in HFC of being the first (only the first) healer to solo heal Archimonde while massively over-gearing it. And it resulted in our entire spec and playstyle being utterly dismantled while we were propped up solely by our set bonus.

A Mistweaver has only gotten a raid slot by being incredible players carrying a subpar class. That's the truth.

[erlster]

I play in a 6/10M guild, and we raid 2d/week. I don't have the trinket or Prydaz, and have healed all our first kills since EN, and HPS wise im usually always 1st.

I've never felt underpowered, and am by no means an elitist. I don't feel like my fellow healers are bad players either, and that being the reason why I perform well. I really enjoy the spell animations and have a really good time healing. I do not feel like my raid team gets let down by me as a healer.


That being said, i think the whole soothing mist mechanic is kinda stupid. Most healers in mythic content (raid/m+) spend all their "down time" doing damage, not casting a channel spell that will do 1% of your total healing done, and contributes to nothing, apart from spothealing certain fights. It's batshit crazy for PvP though, so I guees they will have a hard time reworking it. There are many more concerns, like the mana consumption, it's nuts. But my main problem with the class, is the soothing channel, i'd like to see that totally reworked.

[Myta]

I play in a 6/10M guild, and we raid 2d/week. I don't have the trinket or Prydaz, and have healed all our first kills since EN, and HPS wise im usually always 1st.

I've never felt underpowered, and am by no means an elitist. I don't feel like my fellow healers are bad players either, and that being the reason why I perform well. I really enjoy the spell animations and have a really good time healing. I do not feel like my raid team gets let down by me as a healer.


That being said, i think the whole soothing mist mechanic is kinda stupid. Most healers in mythic content (raid/m+) spend all their "down time" doing damage, not casting a channel spell that will do 1% of your total healing done, and contributes to nothing, apart from spothealing certain fights. It's batshit crazy for PvP though, so I guees they will have a hard time reworking it. There are many more concerns, like the mana consumption, it's nuts. But my main problem with the class, is the soothing channel, i'd like to see that totally reworked.

I didn't say MW were terrible or can't heal at a mythic level. But the question has to be raised here, are you very good at playing a Mistweaver and like being a Mistweaver so have no intentions to reroll? Because you undoubtedly would do better on another healer, with a much better toolkit.

That's a thought ever MW has asked themselves, and Suplift is one of the best Mistweavers in the Mistweaver community and yet he decided, yes I am better on another healer.

I made the choice that I enjoy MW too much to reroll, and I'm not at a level in my WoW life where we're not having to minmax our raid roster and we progress at a pace that is comfortable for us. But if MW was in this state, and I was ever raiding in a top200 guild, then yes the burden would be massive to reroll. That burden should not exist. This isn't just numbers, but the very jerryrigged design of Mistweavers now in terms of toolkit, stats and just how we fit into the healer paradigm. Mistweaver isn't garbage, it just isn't very good at anything. All Mistweaver has is that it's a very fun healer with cool, splashy effects.

I care a shit load about Mistweaver, how it's viewed by the community, how it feels and plays and so I want to see it do better than it is, because we've never had a Mistweaver golden age. I'm not ashamed to admit I care too much too an annoying degree, for most people.