New York Passes Free College Tuition Bill

[Tijuana]

Full story:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/educatio...ollege-n744561

You have to be a resident, take 30 credit hours a year, and promise to work in the state after you graduate for X amount of time.

Hopefully this can solve NYs low population problem by incentivizing people to stay there after college. Wait, what?

[Theinquisition]

That's why I support a nationwide education tax on the top 1/5, with massive exit taxes (I'd say equivalent to 10 years worth of taxes) for any persons in that group who wish to leave the US for any lower tax jurisdiction. I have zero sympathy for the wealthy and powerful who consider it a burden to help up the working class. They can go f themselves.

They do help rhe working class by providing employment. Its not the poor working class that are creating the new jobs and taking the risk of being a entrepreneur

[Wyrt]

it is ALWAYS going to fail. Let us GENUINELY be honest. ALL of these graduates will not create jobs, they will work for already established firms. Thus, more competition and wages going down. Another reason for this is profit being taxed. Say you become successful, but not too successful i.e. barely breaking even, you will have to pay taxes at the same rate and provide benefit to workers as a fortune 500 companies. Thus, it is next to IMPOSSIBLE to succeed owning your own business. Second, education level is irrelevant. it is the NEED of the society that should direct educational spending or else you end up with bachelor level mc. donald cashier. Every one having liberal education, (ALL COLLEGES are liberal bastion) only increases societal ineffeciences and incompetence.

Um, the middle class is what creates jobs, not business owners. More educated middle class means wealthier middle class which means they can afford more goods and services which means more businesses are created to cater to the larger consumer base.

If there's no one to buy stuff then there will be no jobs created. It's simple economics.

[Scathbais]

Really cool. That's about 5 classes per semester, which is pretty standard. Kind of surprised there is no minimum GPA requirement to at least upkeep. Even like a 2.0 GPA would be reasonable since if you are under that you are probably failing at least one class.

This is such an important point. They should evaluate every student after 1 semester or 1 year and decide whether they can stay in the program based on their GPA. Otherwise our tax dollars will be wasted. So glad I moved out of New York

[Berengil]

They do help rhe working class by providing employment. Its not the poor working class that are creating the new jobs and taking the risk of being a entrepreneur

This again; "creating jobs". You know who creates a job? Everyone does, whenever they buy a gallon of milk, or a set of tires, or hire a maid, etc.

Consumers create jobs. If there's a demand, someone will fill it. if there's no demand for something, Warren Buffett couldn't figure out a way to sell it.

[NED funded]

If thats what new yorkers feel is best for their state, than then that is their decision.

I think its fool hardy personally. It doesnt address the reasons why tuition has gone up dramatically to begin with, and i can see schools gouging the state.

Guess we will see.

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Then what would NY do when those top earners vote with their feet and move 20 miles away into PA or NJ to avoid the high taxes.

You didnt think this through.

I can for the love of me think how this reasoning works. I can understand them spending less, but not moving. We are taxing people not business.

[melodramocracy]

This is good. Haven't scrolled through this particular thread, but I have no doubt there are plenty of people simply fuming at the idea of anyone else catching a break.

There is no age limit for the program; once students receive the Excelsior Scholarship they must be enrolled full-time with an average of at least 30 credits per year

Hopefully they extend something similar to folks who can't swing full time school.

[Wyrt]

They do help rhe working class by providing employment. Its not the poor working class that are creating the new jobs and taking the risk of being a entrepreneur

Who's paying for the goods/services that keep that business open and able to employ people again?

Consumers are the ones creating jobs.

[NED funded]

They do help rhe working class by providing employment. Its not the poor working class that are creating the new jobs and taking the risk of being a entrepreneur

This is wrong. Everyone can make a new business, I'd argue that is something that should be encouraged. Rich folk don't have a monopoly on that and in climate were people are risk adverse rich folk invest on existing large firms. I do agree though rich folk are the one that invest in new ideas.

[gutnbrg]

this does nothing for the millions of people already $50k+ in debt...

[Atrea]

this does nothing for the millions of people already $50k+ in debt...

If your dinghy is sinking, you start by plugging the hole, not by bailing out water while more floods in.
Once you plug the hole THEN you bail out what you've taken on.

You understand the analogy here, yes?

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm guessing there is no barometer for silly classes... not sure, but I'd bet clown school is exempt.

I guess Silly wasn't the right word, more so useless to society.

[Raeph]

Three things:

1) This just throws more money into the pit that is higher education. Without tuition caps NY will either have to revisit the measure, to reduce the expese of it, or increase revenues to pay for the inevitable inflation in tuition fees which are growing at least twice the rate of inflation.

2) One of the biggest change to the economy after the Great Recession is that a college degree is no longer enough to ensure a middle class lifestyle. ( http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._salaries.html ) Between 25-50% of the people gaining a bachelors degree have the same earning potential as some who only have a high school diploma.

If those degree's that actually have a chance to bring students into the higher earning teirs aren't encouraged then, while you will see the bulk of graduates gain a middle class earning potential, there will still be a very large pool of people who will have just wasted four years of the their life getting a degree that has the worth of a six pack of toilet paper, and is just as marketable.

3) This does nothing to resolve disparities in low income and minority attainment pre-college. There needs to be large investments in that level of education services to allow low income and minority students to rise to the challege of the rigourus course work in college.

This effort by NY is a laudable step, however time will tell if, in ten years or so, NY will see any benefit from it, or if there is any signficant increase earning potential of their college graduates, when all is said and done.

[OrcsRLame]

This is what real progress looks like imo.

[Slybak]

The income eligibility limit shouldn't have been implemented, and the credit hour requirement is a bit too steep for my tastes, but its a step in the right direction.

Hard capping it at $125k is kind of silly because means-testing a scholarship program at that rate is not going to really save a whole lot of money, plus it opens up the program to the whole "welfare" criticism; universal benefits (like Social Security) are far more popular and thus more politically stable than means-tested ones.

30 credit hours a year is close to the equivalent of a full time job, so low-income students are going to have a much harder time meeting the requirement and covering their living expenses.

1) This just throws more money into the pit that is higher education. Without tuition caps NY will either have to revisit the measure, to reduce the expese of it, or increase revenues to pay for the inevitable inflation in tuition fees which are growing at least twice the rate of inflation.

The scholarship only applies to schools in the State University (SUNY) / City University (CUNY) systems, which already have tuition increase caps set by the state government.

2) One of the biggest change to the economy after the Great Recession is that a college degree is no longer enough to ensure a middle class lifestyle. ( http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._salaries.html ) Between 25-50% of the people gaining a bachelors degree have the same earning potential as some who only have a high school diploma.

If those degree's that actually have a chance to bring students into the higher earning teirs aren't encouraged then, while you will see the bulk of graduates gain a middle class earning potential, there will still be a very large pool of people who will have just wasted four years of the their life getting a degree that has the worth of a six pack of toilet paper, and is just as marketable.

Setting graduation goals for specific degrees for the purpose of economic utility is a mug's game, because you don't know what kind of degrees will be economically viable and which ones won't 10 or even 5 years out. Plus your efforts can just lead to over-saturating the labor pool with specific kinds of graduates; from 2008-2013 unemployment in the IT and CompSci fields consistently outpaced general unemployment because of all the degrees handed out during the tech bubble, but tons of people kept going for those degrees everywhere because of Silicon Valley propaganda about an IT worker shortage.

Hypothetically, if New York State decided to explicitly fund only those degree programs that had current high utility, it would basically put everyone in a nursing program.

[gutnbrg]

If your dinghy is sinking, you start by plugging the hole, not by bailing out water while more floods in.
Once you plug the hole THEN you bail out what you've taken on.

You understand the analogy here, yes?

are u trying to infer that someday they will make some kind of change to reinburse the millions already in debt?

[Anevers]

This again; "creating jobs". You know who creates a job? Everyone does, whenever they buy a gallon of milk, or a set of tires, or hire a maid, etc.

Consumers create jobs. If there's a demand, someone will fill it. if there's no demand for something, Warren Buffett couldn't figure out a way to sell it.

You would figure with all the tax breaks and wealth hoarded the by "Job Creators" Tony mentioned we would be swimming in jobs... It's as if that giving the rich people tax breaks so they could create jobs was absolute bullshit.

[Wyrt]

You would figure with all the tax breaks and wealth hoarded the by "Job Creators" Tony mentioned we would be swimming in jobs... It's as if that giving the rich people tax breaks so they could create jobs was absolute bullshit.

Are you questioning the economic plan of Saint Reagan? How dare you!?

Also, pretty sure insulting religions like that is against the forum Code of Conduct.

[Slybak]

Are you questioning the economic plan of Saint Reagan? How dare you!?

On a related note, Reagan, as governor of California, dismantled the University of California's tuition-free benefit for in-state residents in 1970, which by that time had been in effect for a hundred years.

His argument was that a degree you didn't pay for was going to be less valuable to prospective employers, so he was actually helping students out. He later said that trees cause more pollution than automobiles.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

There is a GPA requirement. I assume it's 2.0 unless your degree program requires something higher.

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Liberals don't care about increasing taxes to help their community. The students are required to work in New York until they've worked off their tuition or they have to pay out of pocket.

What? Then it's just another loan.

They can shit around for 4 years earning nothing, then leave, as I understand it.