Necromancer Beta Test Live now!

[Nutri]

Or a hero if its on sell, or a bundle of heroes at $15.

I like deals and value, One class costing $10+ isn't value to me.

Yet the difference between a HotS hero and a D3 hero is quite significant. Comparing a 5 ability discounted $5,- HotS hero vs a full D3 class with skills, runes, abilities, gearsets and class specific items doesn't really make sense.

[Jtbrig7390]

Yet the difference between a HotS hero and a D3 hero is quite significant. Comparing a 5 ability discounted $5,- HotS hero vs a full D3 class with skills, runes, abilities, gearsets and class specific items doesn't really make sense.

HOTS didn't cost me $40 then $40 for the expansion, So even tho it was WoW Token money I didn't mind dropping cash into it.

[Nutri]

HOTS didn't cost me $40 then $40 for the expansion, So even tho it was WoW Token money I didn't mind dropping cash into it.

That's, again, something completely different as HotS is free to play and has a shop for income, Diablo doesn't have that.
So oranges and apples.

[Deleted]

I'm sad that they balance a class around sets...

sets > skills is a bad route, imo.

[Zeta333]

And we all can expect for the first beta keys to be given out to current and former content creators of Diablo 3 and few to regular players.

As much as i dislike how D3 became, i'm curious to give a try to the Necro, but i'd doubt it will tip the scale and make me buy it.

... Yeah, it's best i don't get access to the beta, it could be "wasted".

watch it be pnb with a golem. It wont hold a candle to the skellymancers of d2.

[Coldkil]

Its late and I mite have read this wrong, But is that the confirmed price?

Did I miss the memo?

No, there's no official announce or pricing. Just me throwing numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sad that they balance a class around sets...

sets > skills is a bad route, imo.

The problem is that right now they cannot do much about it. As i said and as Blizzard said lately they don't want to repeat the "error" of having a set focused on a specific list of skills - Necro sets will be around a specific theme (blood, summons and so on), boosting the related skill category.

Think about Inna or TalRasha that give you a broad damage buff and skillset is up to you (while there are other issues like Archon and MH).

[Gallahadd]

IIRC from the last PR meeting it came out that Necro will have sensibly less skills to focus more on real choice based on runes and not just "pick the one that has the biggest damage/generation/effect".

I'm totally fine with that. If they put in less skills, but make the skills that are there a real choice then it'll be easier to balance and there will be less waste. They should almost do a pass like this for the older classes.

[Coldkil]

I'm totally fine with that. If they put in less skills, but make the skills that are there a real choice then it'll be easier to balance and there will be less waste. They should almost do a pass like this for the older classes.

Which is honestly what i hope will happen. Examples:
- sets like TalRasha, Inna, or even UE (because it's not only MS but also all generators) are fine to me. UE is the good-ish example; the greande build has born due to the implementation of Hellcat waistguard; we should have stuff like that for every single generator to give more build options and make sets at the same time less dominant (or better, more open to choices).
- there are huge issues with skills like Vengeance, WotB, Archon that are meant to be huge big CDs, but in fact they are used because of their 100% uptime; being this strong the items that reduce CD or make them stronger become mandatory (Dawn anyone?) I'd like to see them just removed.
- other skills have become extremely strong due to synergy with some items. Lakumba's ornaments + sacred harvester = any WD build needs to have them + Soul harvest because otherwise you're just dead. Basically you have 1 less skill to choose overall.
- some skills are just straight useless. first of all generators (4 or 5 per class with 6 runes each) where the only ones chosen are the ones that generate more resource or does more damage for a generator build. Runes should change skill behaviour and not damage. Plus, tehre's an entire bunch for every class of runes or entire skills simply ignored because there's no synergy with any set or legendary items that could make them usable.

Generally, it's a balance issue between some skills at this point. Balance between sets/builds is pretty spot on (while people cry over "MUH META") - barb builds are all pretty much on par but class overall is underpowered. Monk is really well tuned overall (all builds pretty viable and multiple sets offering different choices and mixups). Crusader has a couple of really string builds (hammerdin is OP) while the rest sits in the dust - Wizard is literally Archon or die with the exception of some DMO and TR/MH builds (meaning Archon is obscenely strong). DH has seen the light due to the last quiver implemented that made S6 strong as hell and trumping over everything else.

[Gallahadd]

Indeed, the question then becomes, do you weed out underused skills in order to streamline the abilities...

OR

Do you fix the sets, so they're a bit broader in the skills they apply to?

I'm hoping for the Necro sets we'll see slightly more broadreaching bonus' so that we have a bit more leeway in creating builds. I know they've said this is their aim, but I hope they really follow through with it.

I also totally agree with your comments on Vengeance/WoTB/Archon, but I'd like to see them returned to their place as big CDs, rather than removed altogether. I think it's the items that give 100% uptime that are the problem, not the skills themselves.

[Pattiecakes]

"Weed out underused skills" sounds an awful lot like pruning and if Warcraft has taught us anything it's pruning is wrong! lol. I personally like the idea of reworking the sets/skills/runes to open up more end game builds.

[Seifa]

Which is honestly what i hope will happen. Examples:
- sets like TalRasha, Inna, or even UE (because it's not only MS but also all generators) are fine to me. UE is the good-ish example; the greande build has born due to the implementation of Hellcat waistguard; we should have stuff like that for every single generator to give more build options and make sets at the same time less dominant (or better, more open to choices).
- there are huge issues with skills like Vengeance, WotB, Archon that are meant to be huge big CDs, but in fact they are used because of their 100% uptime; being this strong the items that reduce CD or make them stronger become mandatory (Dawn anyone?) I'd like to see them just removed.
- other skills have become extremely strong due to synergy with some items. Lakumba's ornaments + sacred harvester = any WD build needs to have them + Soul harvest because otherwise you're just dead. Basically you have 1 less skill to choose overall.
- some skills are just straight useless. first of all generators (4 or 5 per class with 6 runes each) where the only ones chosen are the ones that generate more resource or does more damage for a generator build. Runes should change skill behaviour and not damage. Plus, tehre's an entire bunch for every class of runes or entire skills simply ignored because there's no synergy with any set or legendary items that could make them usable.

Generally, it's a balance issue between some skills at this point. Balance between sets/builds is pretty spot on (while people cry over "MUH META") - barb builds are all pretty much on par but class overall is underpowered. Monk is really well tuned overall (all builds pretty viable and multiple sets offering different choices and mixups). Crusader has a couple of really string builds (hammerdin is OP) while the rest sits in the dust - Wizard is literally Archon or die with the exception of some DMO and TR/MH builds (meaning Archon is obscenely strong). DH has seen the light due to the last quiver implemented that made S6 strong as hell and trumping over everything else.

I can only speak for Demon Hunter, but i remember that when UE was released some theorycrafters were testing a Hungering Arrow build with the Devouring Arrow rune, Buriza, Area Damage and Simplicity gem. That was a nice idea and more sets should give generic bonuses to different schools of abilities instead of specific ones.
Marauder set should be about trap, sentries and explosives in my opinion, basically for the engineers and Shadow's theme is good, but DH lacks skills that don't require a bow, so the choice is pretty limited to Impale and Fan of Knives if we want to make it a general melee set.
Natalya is too focused on Rain of Vengeance and i have no idea what its theme could be.

I'm happy to now that Necromancers sets will be more generic instead of forcing 6 skills into your bar, if only we can hope for the same for the other classes i could think that the dev team is starting to see the shortcomings of their vision.

I want to conclude on an ironic note about big cooldowns like Archon and Berserker.... I remember when Blizzard nerfed Critical Mass and then WotB because they didn't want for big cooldowns to have 100% uptime and we are back to that situation... rolleyes.

[Kontinuum]

Datamined stuff
http://imgur.com/a/X7S8F

[Coldkil]

I can only speak for Demon Hunter, but i remember that when UE was released some theorycrafters were testing a Hungering Arrow build with the Devouring Arrow rune, Buriza, Area Damage and Simplicity gem. That was a nice idea and more sets should give generic bonuses to different schools of abilities instead of specific ones.

I was actually one of them tbh (DH has been my main until seasons started to roll over and i change character each one) The main issues of the build were:
- Buriza mechanic actually being clunkier than it should be; TL;DR actually the HA quiver is nearly as powerful and better functioning (this relies on the fact that HA has a cap on travel time and Buriza actually not triggering each attack but having some sort of internal cd due to frames)
- HA has the same issues of Impale, being really strong on some targets but for the rest is next to useless even with AD; S6 current build works because 3xImpale just nukes any elite/RG so fast you're ignoring most of the rift
- lack of a dedicated HA legendary that increases its damage sensibly; current UE/Grenades works because of the new belt otherwise it would be a sitting duck.

This doesn't mean a build isn't possible or won't work. The baseline stuff is there - though with the lack of a specific legendary it would be many levels under the other ones.
I also like the idea of adding traps to Marauder - it goes well with it since we make use of spenders, but i think it would be way too hatred starved to use both sentries and traps. Maybe the way to make it work is to have either traps or turrets give the damage bonus - so sentry playstyle stays the same, while with traps you just place everything down to stack huge damage and then trigger the big explosion. Traps are clunky to use though - while sentries are basically "place and forget" traps require substantially more tactical playstyle (not necessarily bad) but the way they do damage isn't really efficient.
Tbh, i really liked the Sticky traps old rune with the Demon's Bane (name?) xbow that made it jump around automatically - don't really know why they took that out.

As for the rest, i feel you. That's why i hope for the necro to be good and interesting to play so Blizzard can finally go for a older class rework (especially skill pruning).

- - - Updated - - -

Datamined stuff
http://imgur.com/a/X7S8F

Nice. There are 5 new gems textures - could possibly be new gems for the future.

[RH92]

The only thing I worry about is everybody playing a pet Necromancer on Beta.

It can make other builds weak or they will nerf the sh*t out of Pet build leaving other builds clunky despite being better because of weak testing.

[Kontinuum]

BTW some minor changes for (Barb)Overpower and Traps(DH) were datamined
http://www.diablofans.com/news/48888-ptr-patch-2-6-0
(in the middle of the page)

Bonus: Necro vs Hamelin
https://clips.twitch.tv/IronicAliveAlfalfaAMPEnergy

[Coldkil]

Tbh, this beta looks more like a "PR stunt promotion" than anything else. Most people in it are streamers and YTers, whch most of them have abandoned the game and returned just for necro, while people playing isn't going to get one.

[Seifa]

Tbh, this beta looks more like a "PR stunt promotion" than anything else. Most people in it are streamers and YTers, whch most of them have abandoned the game and returned just for necro, while people playing isn't going to get one.

You just described every first wave beta from Blizzard. I don't blame neither the company nor the personalities, the fomer wants exposure of the new "major" feature, the latter wants money from the views and every big release is the best moment to get those. I'm concerned about the feedback from people that already abandoned the game, if they give any, because i doubt they are interested in playing the game long term when the core gameplay is the same.
Maybe with generic Necro sets theorycraft will last longer, but sooner than later, the best mathematical build will pop and, as you called it, "MUH META" (i love this meme) will settle again.

I'd rather see regular players get into betas first, because they are the passionate folks that will talk to the devs and give suggestions; damn, i don't want to get into it because i already made my mind about Diablo 3 and i won't come back for a new class, so i don't have the right mindset to give feedback and test.
I hope another beta wave will arrive soon and the remaining lucky players will have their chance.

[Gallahadd]

The only thing I worry about is everybody playing a pet Necromancer on Beta.

I think a LOT will change when sets go live. Right now everyone is just playing the safest build they can without the support of any legendaries. Once we get sets and supporting gear, we'll (hopefully) see a bit more variety in the builds tested.

I get the feeling the melee set is going to be quite fun. Don't know why.

[RH92]

I think a LOT will change when sets go live. Right now everyone is just playing the safest build they can without the support of any legendaries. Once we get sets and supporting gear, we'll (hopefully) see a bit more variety in the builds tested.

I get the feeling the melee set is going to be quite fun. Don't know why.

Yeah, but I still have this uneasy feeling. Don't know why.

I actually like the other builds more, I always felt pet builds are rather passive and that Blood and Bone theme is nasty.

[Coldkil]

-snip-

Well, actually after having talked with many people about the game, it's all about cutting down the expectations we hall had at the beginning. D3 currently has some stuff going the right way, there are no "2 builds at max" like everyone says and if you take it as a casual beat-em-up for fast session, the game is more than fine.

Yes, it misses any sensible long term objective - Primals help a little but they're simply not that appealing to most players who don't even care about Ancients.

The game is "fine" - yes it's not GOTY material by a long shot but combat pace and gameplay are top notch; it lacks structure overall (itemization, character customization, endgame).

MUH META won't go away in any case; it's just safer to ignore it altogheter and just go for the build you have in mind, since GR70 is doable by more or less anything.

Literally: anyone should avoid the "push the highest GR" like a plague; unfortuantely there's no incentive to do so and it's literally the only thing to do except farming slightly lower GRs.