Any1 else dont rly care bout flyin?

[SirCowdog]

That would be anyone who doesn't instantly bow down and agree with him.

You don't have to bow down in order to see the sense of what I'm saying. I won't complain if you do, but it's not required. XD

[-Joker-]

You don't have to bow down in order to see the sense of what I'm saying. I won't complain if you do, but it's not required. XD

The only sense you make is: "Flying is faster than anything. I want my dragon. Fuck Blizz I am unsubbed until we get flight handed to us!"

Less of a conversation, and more of a foot stomping. It is essentially why I've walked away from you and rda in every flight thread.

[Leih]

I'm making a point based on what you said. You miss the old feeling of fighting your way up the stairs on foot. I'm just telling you that you can still do that. Flying doesn't make that impossible. Too many people think it does, and it really REALLY just doesn't.

I mean it's like saying you don't HAVE to use electricity. But the rest of the world has moved on. Once flying is a thing, there isn't really a choice. You either use it or you're left behind.

[SirCowdog]

I mean it's like saying you don't HAVE to use electricity. But the rest of the world has moved on. Once flying is a thing, there isn't really a choice. You either use it or you're left behind.

Left behind who, exactly? Who are you competing with? I mean...really stop and think about that for a second. WHO are you competing with? Do quest objectives go away if someone else gets there first, or do they respawn specifically so that other people can do them? Mobs can be tagged by multiple players. Gathering resources are also multi-tap.

Content doesn't go away because someone got there first. Stop basing your enjoyment on how fast other people are progressing, and focus on what you actually enjoy. Flying doesn't REMOVE content. It doesn't prevent you from playing from the ground. I could start subbing right now, log in, and never use ANY mount, ground or air, and walk everywhere and still access just as much of the game as anyone else, if that's what I enjoyed.

This is a common misconception, and I really wish people would stop repeating it.

The only sense you make is: "Flying is faster than anything. I want my dragon. Fuck Blizz I am unsubbed until we get flight handed to us!"

Less of a conversation, and more of a foot stomping. It is essentially why I've walked away from you and rda in every flight thread.

If that's really all you're hearing, then you haven't been actually listening to what I've been saying.

Maybe you should take an emotional step back and actually try to understand what's being asked for instead of making baseless assumptions. But just in case, let me clarify what I've been saying:

"Flying is faster than anything.": Yes, it is. And I've said on multiple occasions that flying and ground mounts need to be made more equal. There are several ways to go about doing that. I've also gone on record and said that the current mechanics of flying are too powerful, and should be overhauled in order to allow for content that isn't so easily broken.

I want my dragon. I've never actually said that. But other people have made a strong case for the simply fact that they've had to grind and earn their mounts. Some people have paid real money for special flying mounts. It's not unreasonable for those people to want to be able to use those things. Furthermore, the fantasy surrounding being a great hero of the WoW universe involves having powerful mounts and the ability to fly places. But instead we're being asked to accept that it feels more rewarding to pay some taxi driver so we can go AFK on a slow flight path. Not being able to fly is more immersion breaking than flying mounts at this point.

Fuck Blizz I am unsubbed until we get flight handed to us!": No..fuck Blizzard's DECISION to handle flying/no-flying in this way. FUCK Pathfinder.

Also, no one is asking flight to be handed out cheaply or easily. Most pro-flight players(including me) want flying to actually be a reward that has to be worked for through both time and effort, preferably with some actual relevance to the story and lore of the current expansion. Instead what we get is a laundry list of tasks that don't actually reference or have any relevance to how or why we're working towards flight. The requirements also ensure that the value of flight as a "reward" is next to insignificant, due to the simple fact that by the time you get flying you've already consumed every piece of relevant consent that you might otherwise have used flying on. In short, by the time you get flight, you don't need it, making it virtually worthless as a reward.

And that doesn't even go into how having a hard time-lock on getting flight devalues any work don't before the time-lock expired. It didn't matter how long or how hard to you worked on flying, it was still locked. It would be like withholding raid drops from players until 8 months into the expansion. Doesn't matter that you cleared the raid and did the work until Blizzard gave the ok.

As for unsubbing: Unfortunately it appears to be the only language that Blizzard will listen to and understand. People(not just me) have been protesting and pointing out the flaws with No-flying since WoD beta, and had their suggestions, complaints, and legitimate criticisms completely ignored. Even when those messages are done in a reasonable, logical, well-written manner. So yes, I unsubbed. And I'll stay unsubbed until I see what Blizzard does with flying and future content now that it's unlocked.



Does that clarify the situation for you? Or would you prefer to just make more angry assumptions?

[Queen of Hamsters]

I care a lot. Always enjoyed the freedom it brings and the fantasy element of riding magnificent beasts through the air.

It also allows me to doodle about and explore by my own whim rather than always being forced into this mentality of "use FP, get to area, back to FP, taxi to next area. Rinse and repeat" which grounded gameplay brings.

Kinda funny though how people seemingly "not caring about flying", are the ones starting threads on it most of the times...

[Leih]

This is a common misconception, and I really wish people would stop repeating it

You repeat the same argument in every post, completely miss the point, and keep butting ahead with your own opinion that's nothing to do with what I was actually putting forward. I didn't mention anything about competition, removal of content or not enjoying flying. I even said I don't know how many times now that I like flying. I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove to me here. If it's that you can completely opt out of flying in a post-flying world and it will have zero effect on your gameplay and what you observe around you, then I'm sorry we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think I see what Flying Monkey meant! And I really didn't come here to argue against someone like you about flying vs no flying, especially since I'm overall pro-flying. You're still projecting something onto me like you are desperate for another anti-flyer to tussle with!

I'm out

[SirCowdog]

You repeat the same argument in every post, completely miss the point, and keep butting ahead with your own opinion that's nothing to do with what I was actually putting forward. I didn't mention anything about competition, removal of content or not enjoying flying. I even said I don't know how many times now that I like flying. I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove to me here. If it's that you can completely opt out of flying in a post-flying world and it will have zero effect on your gameplay and what you observe around you, then I'm sorry we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think I see what Flying Monkey meant! And I really didn't come here to argue against someone like you about flying vs no flying, especially since I'm overall pro-flying. You're still projecting something onto me like you are desperate for another anti-flyer to tussle with!

I'm out

I get what you were saying originally. You feel like flying changes the game, and that it won't be the same as before, even though you personally like to fly.

But you also literally said: "Once flying is a thing, there isn't really a choice. You either use it or you're left behind." That's pretty cut and dry, and just plain wrong. And people's inability to understand that is exactly what I'm fighting against. The no-flying part of the game has value, and that value still exists, even when flying is available. Ergo: Flying is not at fault for the things people keep blaming it for.


I'm sorry that makes you angry, but it's the truth. People DO have the choice to opt out of flying if that's what they really enjoy. And they can do so without actually hurting what they enjoy at all.

[-Joker-]

Does that clarify the situation for you? Or would you prefer to just make more angry assumptions?

I'm not angry bro. I'm already flying on the Broken Isles as of 48 hours ago. But all me to simplify it in return:

Blizz is not listening, doesn't negotiate, and has no clue who you are or what you stand for. When you unsub, someone takes your place. Cold hard facts about MMOs. You know when subs are getting REALLY bad, cause Blizz will give away everything including the kitchen sink. This is not the case. So, instead of lingering here and listening to more hyperbole and rhetoric, I think I'll hop on my dragon and head for Suramar. Why? Cause I earned it and stayed subbed patiently waiting for it.

[Xandrigity]

I have a limited amount of time to play so flying helps me not waste time traversing terrain. I get to do more stuff.

[SirCowdog]

I'm not angry bro. I'm already flying on the Broken Isles as of 48 hours ago. But all me to simplify it in return:

Blizz is not listening, doesn't negotiate, and has no clue who you are or what you stand for. When you unsub, someone takes your place. Cold hard facts about MMOs. You know when subs are getting REALLY bad, cause Blizz will give away everything including the kitchen sink. This is not the case. So, instead of lingering here and listening to more hyperbole and rhetoric, I think I'll hop on my dragon and head for Suramar. Why? Cause I earned it and stayed subbed patiently waiting for it.

Right....so rather than admit you were out of line and that I might actually have a point, you deflect to the "It's Blizzard's game" line. Typical.

[Dald]

dnt rly care abt typn tngs out fuly

[-Joker-]

Right....so rather than admit you were out of line and that I might actually have a point, you deflect to the "It's Blizzard's game" line. Typical.

If your feels got hurt, that is not my concern. The ONLY valid point you have is: Flight should be unlockable at max level without an achievement.

But since there is a Pathfinder achieve, your argument is invalid.

[Thimagryn]

Less of a conversation, and more of a foot stomping. It is essentially why I've walked away from you and rda in every flight thread.

"Listen to whatever Blizzard says and stop complaining" isn't much of a conversation either.

[Aeula]

Should have been available from day one.

I've gotten more done since getting flying today than I have done in a long time.

Way too many busywork mobs to cut down on the ground and the layout of the zones is horrible. God knows what height map they used.

In Draenor I hardly noticed flying being gone, but they sure as hell made me miss it here.

[SirCowdog]

If your feels got hurt, that is not my concern. The ONLY valid point you have is: Flight should be unlockable at max level without an achievement.

But since there is a Pathfinder achieve, your argument is invalid.

That wasn't even one of the points I made though....

It's clear to me that you're not even fully reading or attempting to understand. You're just picking random things that you don't like and lashing out at it blindly.

[Leih]

But you also literally said: "Once flying is a thing, there isn't really a choice. You either use it or you're left behind." That's pretty cut and dry, and just plain wrong. And people's inability to understand that is exactly what I'm fighting against. The no-flying part of the game has value, and that value still exists, even when flying is available. Ergo: Flying is not at fault for the things people keep blaming it for.

Ok let me try one more time.

I don't think it's possible to deny that flying trivialises world content. In terms of if you choose to fly everything about doing world content is suddenly MUCH easier and faster.

From what I gather, you're basically saying "If you don't like that it trivialises the world content, you can totally opt out of flying and everything will be the same as it was."

Here's the thing... while it's technically true that on a personal "this is me I'm doing the quest" level it's mostly the same (mostly, not completely, your quest completion times are going to slow down slightly since you are going to be be disadvantaged when it comes to mob tagging, and won't have the incidental help of other players when clearing through unneeded areas) the very fact that it's now possible to trivialise the content changes things. If you don't understand why... well think of it like this.

What you're basically doing is the equivalent of going into those "I miss Wrath" threads where someone is gushing about how much he/she misses the good old days of farming tournament dailies in Icecrown, and it's such a shame Cata came out and it was gone. And you're saying "Listen buddy, stop blaming Cata! Icecrown is still there, you can still do it! So what if everyone else has moved on you can stay at level 80 and keep playing!" It's the same thing. Your argument is technically true the content is still there and someone could stay at 80 if they want and keep doing the old stuff forever if that's what they enjoy... but realistically no one is going to do that when they could advance their power and make those dailies trivial and everyone else has long since moved on. The environment has changed, your social interactions with other people has changed, and what you are doing is no longer optimal or relevant to the community at large.

I think flying is worth the sacrifice and the change that it makes to the game's dynamic is unfortunate but necessary. What utterly baffles me is the way you are trying to completely deny it changes anything. Maybe if you are a complete 100% solo player with no thoughts or concerns about other players and no particular time constraints on your gaming time... But most players play MMOs for the social dynamics not totally solo grinding and when everyone else has levelled to 85, or taken to the skies over the Broken Isles, being left behind the curve can become a lonely experience.

"Hey Sarah, wanna do World Quests with me this afternoon?"
"Sure Tom.. oh but you'll have to wait 5-10 at each objective for me cause I don't believe in flying."
"... uhm I'll just do it myself."

[Deleted]

Imho they should just remove flying alltogether.

I like the game a lot more when everyone is on the ground.

[rda]

I don't think it's possible to deny that flying trivialises world content. In terms of if you choose to fly everything about doing world content is suddenly MUCH easier and faster.

No, flying does not trivialize world content. It makes it faster *to move between* world content. Flying trivializes a small number of quests where the entire point of the quest is to travel to a difficult to reach destination. These quests can *easily* be made to require you not to fly (for example, when you accept the quest, you get a buff, the moment you mount the buff is lost and without the buff you can not turn the quest in).

[Deleted]

Need flying for dr00d farming urbz and to lvl my alts n do WQs on multiple chars.

Forget about invasions, they happen when I'm asleep or on my way to work.

- - - Updated - - -

Imho they should just remove flying alltogether.

I like the game a lot more when everyone is on the ground.

Fuck that shit!

[Chrno]

don't give a shit about it tbh.
not going to bother with trying to get it. Tho eventually i'll most likely get it anyway from just playing the game. Happend to me in WoD as well