Is affliction really overpowered?

[Zelk]

Twice now we've been OP when it hasn't mattered this expansion and we''l soon be nerfed again before ToS is out

[Jondar]

i disagree sjeletyven. no top guilds use aff warlocks in any of the first kills..

None of the top guilds were getting their first kills in 7.2. This isn't really a good point?

[Cainium]

- top AoE damage
- top single target damage

IMO only people who don't know anything about affliction can say that. If they nerf aff now, we will be trash tier again on ToS progression, and OP again when T21 is coming. Rinse and repeat. If aff does not get a nerf now it might become overpowered mid ToS or late ToS, but not when the tier starts.

Top AoE damage? Where? On Skorpyron? That's pulling ALL uneccessary adds and just padding with soulflame. On a regular tactic, with only the adds cleared which come into the fight on their own, afflic does solid AoE DPS like almost ALL other specs can do too.

Top ST damage? Where? We aren't top on Trilliax. Thats for assasination rogues. Aff gets good on "ST damage" as soon as there are short living adds that can be used to stack WoC and Reap. WHO does kill those adds? DHs, Hunters, Warriors, DKs, but not aff locks. WoC is designed to work like this and designed to compensate the non-existent passive cleave aff is lacking. But what does it on a progression fight? Nothing. The classes who can kill these adds as fast as possible are important, not those who can abuse them for a minor DPS increase on their boss damage.

If you need ST damage you stack assasination rogues. Higher, non-add dependent and sustained ST damage with BETTER raid utility.

- DoT damage that keeps rolling while you reposition and do mechanics, while other specs completely lose every bit of DPS when moving and not casting

Unstable affliction is more than 50% of our damage, depending on the fight and how good we are at drain cycling (and how much luck we have with procs). So yes, we can do a good portion of your DPS on the move. But you know what? Classes which can't do that are balanced around that. They don't balance meele classes for 100% boss uptime, neither do they with casters. Not a valid point "pro afflic".

Yes somebody has to be on top. But nobody last there for long, and just as you saw specs like demo and fire being slowly made obsolete, in the end they will have to put affli in one niche, you cannot have it strong on everything.

- Mid Tier on ST
- Crap on killing small living adds
- Crap on killing focus targets

- Good on AoE padding
- Good on Multidot Padding
- Good on ST tunneling and ignoring everything else

Yes, the spec is really good at things that actually matter during progression.

Plus multidotting is somewhat out of control. The moment there are 3-4 targets that are spread, spriests and affli starts to pull stupid numbers.

Does it? Lets see... on Botanist HC i see Shadows being OP, some Palas doing very good, and as soon as i see the first good affli parses, i also see a frost mage, an elemental shaman, and mostly boomkins, DKs, and other stuff. Affliction is in good company here.

All this hate against afflic is pure trash talk. I hope Blizzard knows that and come to the same conclusion. Everytime aff got nerfed before a raid tier started it ended up being trash tier.

End note: In my raid aff looks OP too. But that is due to the reason I usually parse at 90%+, and the rest of our DPS do 80% at their best, most doing 50% and lower, and NONE of them knows how affliction works. So the perspective and more knowledge than looking at recount and read some numbers is needed to judge afflictions state.

[Ealyssa]

Why should it be nerfed? [...] Why is that too good for us? What do you see that is so unbelievably imbalanced that affliction actually needs to be nerfed over it?

Please... Afflock is stupidly OP currently.



That's the current top 5. Just absurd how far ahead it is.

[Nephcyte]

Plus multidotting is somewhat out of control. The moment there are 3-4 targets that are spread, spriests and affli starts to pull stupid numbers.

Does it really? Spriests sure shine affli doesnt really climbs up that much if you compare dot classes to HFC conuncils. Its just mediocore on par with other specs just like Cainium said.

[BannedForViews]

Please... Afflock is stupidly OP currently.



That's the current top 5. Just absurd how far ahead it is.

overall incorporates skorpyron, which doesn't count for shit, so try again.

[Arcrin]

None of the top guilds were getting their first kills in 7.2. This isn't really a good point?

im aware its not the same patch but with regards to what changes aff had in 7.2 most of it is what i consider bugfixes/quality of life. as in reap waste and not stacking duration and stuff like that. it is still not the fault of the spec that it does very well in NH it is the boss designs. i do think the uptime is a bit high right now, it has taken away of lot of the skillcap aff had in regards to reap usage but im not a dev so i cant say how to reduce that without breaking the spec completely. if you nerf reap uptime pr. soul you are forced into spending UAs without reap which will put affliction to the very bottom of the charts. Reap is that big for affliction. Because you can no longer spend 2-3 UAs on 1-2 souls if they nerfed uptime you would have to wait for 3-4 souls or the leggo back would become insanely OP.

our gold trait is extremely strong which is why it got nerfed from 12% to 4% that is a 300% nerf. that is what it means to be overpowered and blizzard fixed it.

people might argue it is still OP but affliction does need something to get souls from outside of add kills for fights like trilliax.

[Spoonman]

What are the chances aff lock getting a nerf?
Its rank 1 in Heroic, Mythic NH and M+ so ive just had to start leveling one
I feel that aff lock is kind of the class Blizzard doesnt talk anything about so its difficult to see when the nerf hammer is coming

When a class is this OP that Aff lock currently is shouldnt there be like on going hotfixes? It has been for all other classes ive played in legion yet but Im not sure if there has been any for aff lock

[Nize]

overall incorporates skorpyron, which doesn't count for shit, so try again.

Wrong. It doesn't incorporate Skorp. It's excluded from statistics. But yeah, looking at overall CAN be deceiving at times. For MM hunters and Fire Mages in EN, this was definitely the case.

Not with Affliction. It is OP, guys, and you need to own it. You can see each stat for each boss and you'll see them top out in pretty much every fight, minus one, which is Elisande where Destruction takes the cake. Edit: Spellblade as well, but they're in the upper half.

It's not even a case of "fights accomodate Affliction in Nighthold, but not in ToS". The way Affliction currently stands, it will destroy and overpower every fight in ToS, as well. 7.2.5 will fix this. Just hope that Blizz doesn't swing that pendulum way the other way, which is very typical. I do alt up a warlock and wanted to spend more time with him in ToS, so I'm hoping Blizz doesn't overdo it.

[sheggaro]

No, we're strong but not overpowered.

[Deleted]

I actually love the spec. Even though I play mage nowadays, I've played more warlock overall than other classes. I would never ask for a nerf.

But I'm just realistic and looking at precedents. You think the spec is good because of padding, and it might be true to some extent, but does this matter to Blizz? Cause I wouldn't nerf it, but Blizz might. When in doubt about how Blizz goes about these things, just look at Fire Mage and what happened to them.

Fire was not even the overall top spec like affli is now. And Blizz went yolo and nerfed Combustion in half, plus other smaller nerfs too, and since then fire was never a upper half spec again. Do they care? Nope. Are they trying to buff it? Nope.

Trash damage (i.e. M+ damage) is important to Blizz, as they've stated before. They are just that dumb and will attempt balance based on M+, which is important to them now.

So this is exactly what I see when I look at affli: good ST, great AoE, top overall at some distance from the rest. Tanky as hell - locks die last. Meanwhile an arcane mage that has to move will do 0 dps and their spike damage can't even remotely come close to what affli does - just as a comparison. Or a fire mage has just some shitty Ignite rolling even with Combustion.

If you cannot see how you compare to the other casters, then I really cannot say anything else. Again, I wouldn't nerf affli, but it's easier for Blizz to nerf it than buff others a bit.

One last thing about that "add padding" and "includes Skorpyron so invalid":



This should put this issue to rest.

IIRC that wold include a pile of incidental Soul Flame damage.

Neve rmind, I'm sure that warlocks will continue to cry long and loud for blizz to shit all over affliction and they will absolutely hammer it into the ground, like they did in WOD demonology.


GG guys. The destruction diehards will be delighted.

[Demonidze]

probably seems overpowered because so many fights have adds that affli benefits alot from. also we might be balanced around ToS .. so lets wait and see how we fare in ToS.

[BannedForViews]

Wrong. It doesn't incorporate Skorp. It's excluded from statistics. But yeah, looking at overall CAN be deceiving at times. For MM hunters and Fire Mages in EN, this was definitely the case.

Not with Affliction. It is OP, guys, and you need to own it. You can see each stat for each boss and you'll see them top out in pretty much every fight, minus one, which is Elisande where Destruction takes the cake. Edit: Spellblade as well, but they're in the upper half.

It's not even a case of "fights accomodate Affliction in Nighthold, but not in ToS". The way Affliction currently stands, it will destroy and overpower every fight in ToS, as well. 7.2.5 will fix this. Just hope that Blizz doesn't swing that pendulum way the other way, which is very typical. I do alt up a warlock and wanted to spend more time with him in ToS, so I'm hoping Blizz doesn't overdo it.

No, you are wrong. Skorpyron doesn't have it's own rank but it's clearly incorporated into the averages. It is part of "all bosses". it's also part of your overall percentage score, which is pretty easily verifiable with simple math.

- - - Updated - - -

IIRC that wold include a pile of incidental Soul Flame damage.

Neve rmind, I'm sure that warlocks will continue to cry long and loud for blizz to shit all over affliction and they will absolutely hammer it into the ground, like they did in WOD demonology.


GG guys. The destruction diehards will be delighted.

not to mention he's showing that the specs that aren't terrible good at target swapping and are designed to tunnel bosses are actually the top at tunneling bosses. Except from sin and frost which actually cleave and target swap just fine.

[Deleted]

I don't get it, why do people hark on about Affliction not having burst? 2 x UA+MG and you get great burst, I've never experienced an issue, sure there's a ~4sec delay initially while you prep UA and get that first MG proc, and maybe Agony for shard procs, but then BAM, things die pretty quickly.

And that's true. If you're able to let 2 uas +drain tick on an add. Take gul'dan as an example:

-When the big add from Hand of Gul'dan spawns, an aff lock can easily focus it, maybe putting even 3 4 uas on it, and having them dealing damage for their whole duration. This usually result in a lot of damage on adds, which make me feel less a useless turret. (You can do the same thing with the big eye, though it'll die much faster)

-When the small eyes spawn, you can do nothing. You can only precast a seed of corruption to tag them all and gain 5 stacks of WoC. Melees will destroy them even before you might think "I'll help killing that one eye".

Now, if all fights had the first kind of adds, Affliction would result in having a good burst on priority targets. But in NH, all adds which spawn belong to Number 2.
So yeah, affliction results shit compared to other classes who in the space of 3 4 globals can easily kill an add

[Deleted]

That's not mobility:
- Hunter can disengage (and have a quite good rotation while moving, especially with legendary hands that they could choose on a fight involving high mobility)
- Mages got double blink and (especially fire) a lot of istant cast spell, + they can even cast while moving, using scorch or ice flows.
- Sp and other lock specs are worse than affliction.
So, no, we aren't mobile. Especially because gate has 90 sec cd, and circle is often useless, because you'd need it more often than 30 sec, or you need to go in a different place (see which classes don t find trilliax extremely annoying as an example for "high mobility classes".

I mean this is just completely wrong I can't really comment much further, being able to use relevant globals in our rotation WHILST MOVING and not losing dps as a result IS mobility. Go and look up the definition of the word if you must.

[Ealyssa]

overall incorporates skorpyron, which doesn't count for shit, so try again.

No it doesnt. But thanks showing how smart you are, wasn't needed.

[Deleted]

It's a bit weird to have someone playing affliction trying to defend the spec as not being OP. People are rarely objective, especially on their own strengths.

I do play affliction and even I have to agree that the latest push put affliction quite a bit on the high side. Affli at the moment has the potential to be top damage at every single boss in Nighthold. Even the former strongholds for the other lock specs (Krosus/Aluriel myth for demo or Elisande for Destro) are out-dps'ed by affli at the moment.

The nerf is coming, that's for sure. Only thing to hope for is that it won't be too much of a knee-jerk overreaction - as is the usual Blizzard style.

[BannedForViews]

It's a bit weird to have someone playing affliction trying to defend the spec as not being OP. People are rarely objective, especially on their own strengths.

I do play affliction and even I have to agree that the latest push put affliction quite a bit on the high side. Affli at the moment has the potential to be top damage at every single boss in Nighthold. Even the former strongholds for the other lock specs (Krosus/Aluriel myth for demo or Elisande for Destro) are out-dps'ed by affli at the moment.

The nerf is coming, that's for sure. Only thing to hope for is that it won't be too much of a knee-jerk overreaction - as is the usual Blizzard style.

Once again, what the hell does OP mean. Stronger than it was 2 weeks ago? Everyone is a lot stronger. Stronger than other warlocks specs? Yes, it is thst also. Significantly stronger than any other top performing spec? No, it isnt Significant. It leads on a few fights, and its middle to upper middle on others. If you want to call it op then we are playing this game where you hsve to call the top 7 specs op, the bottom 7 UP, and then pretend everything is going to get bapance to middle around every boss. Thats not going to happen. Theres always someone on top and now its affliction, and it isnt by enouh to justify gutting it. Especially not if you played that shit since launch.

[Joryy]

We're a little too good right now in raids, every add providing souls happened without a tuning pass.

I expect we will see the add -> soul conversion be iterated on.

[Deleted]

Slow ramp up.
Tied to a build. Can't excel at other areas with one build (like some other classes, DH, rogue, DK can). Has to switch to SoW or WiA or AC for certain bosses.
Bad at target switching.
Bad at nuking down adds that have to die within 5 seconds. Casting UA + first tick takes too long
Limited mobility.
No immunity cooldowns or cheat deaths.
Does rely on others to kill adds
Selfish specc that leeches on adds rather than nuking them down.
Single target is not that strong. only gets strong when you can benefit from adds with WoC/Reap. Look at trilliax logs.


Affliction looks extremely strong on logs and damage meters, but don't forget that we also have some real hardcore players like Sjeletyven that do 10 runs a weak to get a good parse and so basically "delete" all their previous runs and only make that one with the best RNG count on logs. Lots of people like him out there, especially for Affliction warlocks. Haven't seen that with other classes as much to be brutally honest.

I think affliction should be a top specc, simply because we don't have all tools available in the game like other classes do. If affliction had bad single target damage it would be a dead specc simply because of the ramp up time. Why would anyone take a specc that needs time to build up damage if they can have instead burst damage instead?

We also scale extremely well with gear, especially secondaries, legendaries and tier set combined.

Affliction is strong yes, but it NH bosses do heavily favor affliction and the whole situation is more complicated than a simple number fix. Let's see what 7.2.5 is going to have in store. Maybe some shift on damage distribution would be nice