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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnoExpress View Post
    Content won't be broken by flying in most cases(things like small puzzles to get a chest comes to mind but that's not really important). The problem with flying is that it allows you to skip everything in the world outside of the 10 mobs you need to kill for a quest. It's simply too convenient as it makes the game into mount, start flying in a direction, alt-tab, tab back in, fly straight down in the middle of anything, kill a mob, repeat. With the way things are right now you'll at least have a good while to go through the world and see the content that's there.

    As for the mobs on the ground it makes sense. If you walk into a murloc camp there'll be murlocs on the ground. You can't throw mobs in the sky everywhere and expect it to look decently. Other than it looking decently it won't make sense.

    Another thing is that the reply i made was about making flying somewhat challenging, which isn't really doable right now. I think that the current model where flying is unlocked partway through an expansion is good because it allows you to see things in the game and brings the convenience of flying back at some point. While you want to be able to fly from the start there are people who don't and at that point it's a matter of opinion more than anything else.
    I don't know why skipping this is a problem, though.

    People gather in places where they have things to do, and disperse all over the place or concentrate in hubs when they have nothing to do (but only queue content). Or they travel strictly to their destination (like dungeon / raid content without ports). Why is it important that they get stuck on the way because some random mob dismounted them? What fun / excitement / pleasure / new experience is to gain from that? What new thing whill the player learn except probably the aggro range?

    Such kind of "content" does not contribute to a meaningful experience. I don't know anyone who thinks that getting dismounted by a random mob between start of your journey and its destination is somehow meaningful. It's usually also not dangerous at all, because they cannot create a world which is dangerous for the top geared / skilled players without alienating the larger share of players, who don't meet one of these criteria.

    They should stop trying to force the open world into the dungeon pattern. And people shold stop encouraging them to do this, because it's a pointless, and probably even toxic thing for the game. You know, we have dungeons and raids in it. Open world should be a different thing.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Where is that picture from? I want to see if they are using it as carrot or it's just a guide how to unlock it.
    It's banner ads right here on MMO champion... it links to : https://wowlegion.com/am/en/ which has the section:



    I don't see the part where it says "Trivialize the game and make it EZ Mode!" It's pretty clear they are marketing it as a beautiful, enjoyable feature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vipers View Post
    first they give shitload of epix and when they try to fix it they go lazy way and use Mobs Scaling With Item Level
    And let's not forget Legendaries... first it was broken so that if you WERE lucky enough to get one.. your chances were BETTER to get more... thus people getting 5+ while others never got their first. The fact that they had to even attempt "Bad Luck Protection" should have been a warning flag about RNG being a really BAD idea.

    It still is a joke.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ThaNinja View Post
    SO much salt, I don't mind pathfinding and I certainly enjoyed unlocking flying :P
    I think the majority of people are fine with unlocking it... it's the waiting 8 months before you CAN that people are upset with. It should be at max level like it was for the majority of this game's development. Why? For me it's because the game does not hold enough attraction without flying. I can take about 2 months... MAX... before I leave game.
    Last edited by Maudib; 2017-04-13 at 03:31 PM.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post


    I don't see the part where it says "Trivialize the game and make it EZ Mode!" It's pretty clear they are marketing it as a beautiful, enjoyable feature.
    Blizzard and their double-speak.

    "Oh, we care so much about the integrity of the game, the conflict between races is integral, we are never going to allow transfers between PVE and PVP realms - no, no, no" --- marketing says "are you guys nuts, there's a demand there, let's take the money" --- bam, "integrity" lost.

    "Oh, we care so very much about your experience, we are carefully maintaining all this world so that you could gradually level in it, we view leveling as a thing of utmost importance, we are banning people offering leveling services" --- marketing says "guys... you are idiots, let's take the money" --- bam, we have character boosts, the "experience" is suddenly no longer important.

    "Oh, we are so concerned about the immersion and how you approach content, unfortunately flying is that feature that is just ruining it completely, we wish we never implemented it, it is so bad" --- marketing says "look, cut this BS already, we are advertising the hell out of this, turn that on, cretins" --- bam, flying is no longer ruining anything.

    It's in everything.

    Sooner or later they will add those loot boxes they have in F2P games or something like that. Because this is money. All those talks about what's supposedly better for the game are just null and void, they don't mean a thing. When the time comes, they say "uh, oh, times change" and run over the supposed staple because they think it is more profitable that way.

    And I am even a pro-flyer, but the disconnect is damn disgusting. Either flying is good - and then STFU with all the stupidity about it ruining things and allow getting it at max level. Or it is not - and then erase these duplicitous ads. Plus stop misguiding people who are now buying flying mounts based on these shiny ads to only discover that they won't be able to fly them in actual content until it stops being actual.

  4. #304
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    You can, of course, use them, but i'm not convinced Blizzard is happy. The dumb shareholders (which are gamblers, by the way, and they gamble more if things are shown in a positive way) may be happy. We don't know if Blizzard (meaning the directors and the heads of the company) is with WoW metrics, though.
    You confuse shareholders in Activision, of which Blizzard is only a part, with mythical shareholders in Blizzard, which don't exist. It's a common thing here. "Oh, the shareholders won't like that flying change..." Meanwhile, Activision continues to post record profits and their shareholders are quite content, thank you very much.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by AnoExpress View Post
    Content won't be broken by flying in most cases(things like small puzzles to get a chest comes to mind but that's not really important). The problem with flying is that it allows you to skip everything in the world outside of the 10 mobs you need to kill for a quest. It's simply too convenient as it makes the game into mount, start flying in a direction, alt-tab, tab back in, fly straight down in the middle of anything, kill a mob, repeat. With the way things are right now you'll at least have a good while to go through the world and see the content that's there.

    As for the mobs on the ground it makes sense. If you walk into a murloc camp there'll be murlocs on the ground. You can't throw mobs in the sky everywhere and expect it to look decently. Other than it looking decently it won't make sense.

    Another thing is that the reply i made was about making flying somewhat challenging, which isn't really doable right now. I think that the current model where flying is unlocked partway through an expansion is good because it allows you to see things in the game and brings the convenience of flying back at some point. While you want to be able to fly from the start there are people who don't and at that point it's a matter of opinion more than anything else.
    So what if you skip mobs? You always skip mobs unless you literally attempt to murder every single red thing in your vision range all the time which nobody does. The only difference is how you skip it; ground mounts have the mob chasing after you and sometimes dismount you, at which point you sigh, AoE them down, then mount back up and resume your business. Flying just allows you to bypass them entirely to get to the stuff you actually want to do.

    What is so important about these random bears or Murlocs which I've already killed hundreds of times, that a key transportation feature of the game should be sacrificed for the sake of having them daze and dismount my ass one more time?

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    You confuse shareholders in Activision, of which Blizzard is only a part, with mythical shareholders in Blizzard, which don't exist. It's a common thing here. "Oh, the shareholders won't like that flying change..." Meanwhile, Activision continues to post record profits and their shareholders are quite content, thank you very much.
    Like harming WoW is somehow increasing revenues of other Blizzard games.

    In your example the shareholders just don't know what's going on, that's it. The damage is there, they are just clueless to that. Perhaps the sentiment in "the shareholders won't like it" is misguided, as in, the shareholders can't / won't go down to that level of detail, but there is a bigger point here in that if a particular thing is making it worse, then it is making it worse including for the shareholders.

  7. #307
    Flying does trivialize content... when that content is meant to be meaningful. At launch, the Broken Isles zones are meant to be meaningful and traversed in a certain manner. Flying would torpedo that.

    This far into the expansion, it isn't so much of a concern. It's opened up again. Yay.

    Do people who play Mario Kart complain that they can only use the flying stuff on certain levels or certain areas of the track, and everywhere else they're "stuck driving on the ground" ..? Because this isn't really different. The designers say "the game is meant to be played a certain way here, here and here" and that's how it is.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    So what if you skip mobs? You always skip mobs unless you literally attempt to murder every single red thing in your vision range all the time which nobody does. The only difference is how you skip it; ground mounts have the mob chasing after you and sometimes dismount you, at which point you sigh, AoE them down, then mount back up and resume your business. Flying just allows you to bypass them entirely to get to the stuff you actually want to do.

    What is so important about these random bears or Murlocs which I've already killed hundreds of times, that a key transportation feature of the game should be sacrificed for the sake of having them daze and dismount my ass one more time?
    Let's not forget about these which are already implemented:

    1. Rogue and feral druid have stealth to avoid content
    2. NE have shadowmeld to drop all aggro after running through everything to avoid content (this is what I do)
    3. Mage has slow-fall to semi-fly and avoid content
    4. Priest has levitate to semi-fly and avoid content
    5. Demon hunter has glide to semi-fly and avoid content

    It's like flying would level the playing ground for everyone...weird

  9. #309
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    You confuse shareholders in Activision, of which Blizzard is only a part, with mythical shareholders in Blizzard, which don't exist. It's a common thing here. "Oh, the shareholders won't like that flying change..." Meanwhile, Activision continues to post record profits and their shareholders are quite content, thank you very much.
    Activision shareholders being happy is kinda irrelevant in this topic about WoW because as you yourself say there are no Blizzard sharehodlers and Blizzard is just a part of Activision and WoW is only a part of Blizzard catalog.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer View Post
    Flying does trivialize content... when that content is meant to be meaningful. At launch, the Broken Isles zones are meant to be meaningful and traversed in a certain manner. Flying would torpedo that.
    Please tell me stories of how MoP's content was torpedoed by flying. Or Cata's. Or WotLK's.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    You confuse shareholders in Activision, of which Blizzard is only a part, with mythical shareholders in Blizzard, which don't exist. It's a common thing here. "Oh, the shareholders won't like that flying change..." Meanwhile, Activision continues to post record profits and their shareholders are quite content, thank you very much.
    The Activision shareholders can make any profit they want, what matters to me is that NONE of that money comes from my wallet, and that would have made the profit even bigger.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by jdmike06 View Post
    You guys are so cynical. I think this way of getting flying makes it feel more rewarding. I really enjoy seeing everyone around me questing, doing stuff when the content is relatively fresh. The worst leveling/world experience ever was Cata where I just flew to every quest.
    Cata leveling wasn't made bad because of flying. Cata leveling was bad because the content itself wasn't great and you teleported to all the zones scattered around the world via portals instead of exploring one big land mass filled with new zones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Please tell me stories of how MoP's content was torpedoed by flying. Or Cata's. Or WotLK's.
    Well to play devil's advocate here, you couldn't fly in Pandaria until 90 and you couldn't fly in Northrend until 78.

    I think leveling is fine on the ground. But once you hit max level, you've explored enough of the new zones and it's time to break out the flying mounts.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Well to play devil's advocate here, you couldn't fly in Pandaria until 90 and you couldn't fly in Northrend until 78.

    I think leveling is fine on the ground. But once you hit max level, you've explored enough of the new zones and it's time to break out the flying mounts.
    That's not devil's advocate, nobody asks for flying while leveling - only after hitting max-level.

  14. #314
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Activision shareholders being happy is kinda irrelevant in this topic about WoW because as you yourself say there are no Blizzard sharehodlers and Blizzard is just a part of Activision and WoW is only a part of Blizzard catalog.
    I agree with this. Concurrently, Activision shareholders being unhappy may have nothing at all to do with World of Warcraft. It's a fair point and one which people need to be reminded of every time they take some developer action they disapprove of and start writing about unhappy shareholders.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    Are you for real? You get a flying mount for free in the second quest hub there.
    I wasn't aware that seahorses could fly? This is a flying thread...
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  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer View Post
    Flying does trivialize content... when that content is meant to be meaningful. At launch, the Broken Isles zones are meant to be meaningful and traversed in a certain manner. Flying would torpedo that.
    That only applies when the content itself is meaningful. What meaning is there to travelling between repeated content? There is no real purpose or meaning to it other than to be filler, and it can actively be avoided by use of flight paths, whistle and glider anyways. Flying is just another one of those tools.

    As for the content itself, there is no scaling (yet) and as you become more powerful, the content becomes less challenging and less meaningful as a result. If anything, character progress trivializes the content. Flight doesn't impact content any more than obtaining epic gear does.

    Do people who play Mario Kart complain that they can only use the flying stuff on certain levels or certain areas of the track, and everywhere else they're "stuck driving on the ground" ..? Because this isn't really different. The designers say "the game is meant to be played a certain way here, here and here" and that's how it is.
    It IS different and your example is apples and oranges. You're comparing a linear on-rails gameplay system to an open-world system that is restricting use of mobility. You might as well be comparing combat in WoW to combat in God of War 'Because this isn't really different'. It is very different because they're completely different games with different uses of each system. Flying is and always will be a part of WoW, no matter how hard Blizzard tries to limit it to the latest content. It's a system that is integral to what many expect from the game, much like PVP, raids and professions. Even if you personally don't miss these systems if they were removed, it doesn't mean everyone will be as accepting as you.

    If Breath of the Wild restricted Paragliders to a taxi-system that can only be used in certain areas, it would be an incredibly different game from what it is right now. The ability to glide anywhere is a vastly different experience than a prepared taxi-system that takes control away from your character. You can't just take it away by reasoning of 'the developers' and believe that it's a fault of the players for not accepting a massive change to the systems.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2017-04-13 at 06:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    It's banner ads right here on MMO champion... it links to : https://wowlegion.com/am/en/ which has the section:



    I don't see the part where it says "Trivialize the game and make it EZ Mode!" It's pretty clear they are marketing it as a beautiful, enjoyable feature.
    I think we need to start one of those funny photoshop thread with those adverts can someone photoshop Ion trying to hide behind one of those mountain peak?
    Last edited by bufferunderrun; 2017-04-13 at 06:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  18. #318
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post




    Yeah man... flying sucks for the game. It trivializes content. It allows you to miss all out hard work and miss experiencing the game as we intended.

    Oh... hey! Earn flying in WoW... It's an AWESOME feature we have added because it's so desired.

    Who exactly as the ads intended for? Are they reaching out to the millions that left game because they took away something and now using it as a carrot to come back?
    Think of flying as reward for actually doing the content. It's not like they're just giving it to you, you have to earn it by doing pathfinder 1 and 2, which requires you to do explorations and quests on a ground mount (ergo, do the content the way it was designed to be done) and you are rewarded later with an easier way of traveling around after completing the requirements.

    I see nothing wrong with this.

    If you don't like flying and wish to keep doing the content with a ground mount, you could always just keep using ground mounts...
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Axing flying was just an attempt to put a band-aid on a much larger problem. The previous expansions (TBC, even Wotlk) worked with flying because it (usually) took a while to get to level cap, then you got flying. No problem. Now it takes mere days (and in some cases hours) to get to cap. So I see where Blizzard wanted, given the circumstances, to "enlarge" the game by axing flying. However, it just doesn't work given the way of things with the game, and was just a pointless gesture. They already hacked and slashed all the slow down and "smell the roses" type of content the game used to have, so why bother trying to reintroduce it into material that does not support it by getting rid of flying.
    Lol it took days to get to lvl 80 for you in WOTLK? ofc it took longer in TBC than in WOTLK but really ? WOTLK for was one if not the most alt friendly xpacks ever added to the game.

  20. #320
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeexbean View Post
    its not even immersion its literally just the game.. you avoid half of the game by flying over it
    Getting dazed by mobs that aren't really any threat is half the game? Bullshit. You're doing the same thing as - you're trying to tell others how they should play. If running on the ground is half the game to you, keep doing it. I won't stop you or tell you you're playing wrong.

    (cue the whiny "but I HAVE TO FLY if everyone else does" bullshit.)

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