Subtlety PTR Notes

[Embalmo]

Subtlety
Shadow Dance: Now grants all the benefits of Stealth for 4 seconds, up from 3 seconds.
Symbols of Death: No longer requires Stealth. Now costs 25 Energy, down from 35 Energy. Now has a 30 second cooldown, up from 10 seconds.


Okay, not requiring stealth is great, but that cooldown leaves something to be desired. I know they said that they wanted to move away from the focus on Symbols of Death, but keeping it as a focus but also adding a cooldown doesn't fix the problem.

[Deleted]

I wonder what they'll do to the Subtlety Tier set bonus now, both 2 set and 4 set will be awful with the changes to symbols.

[Blayke]

Not sure the cd is even relevant now.

"Invoke ancient symbols of power, increasing all damage you deal by 20% for 35 sec until cancelled, (emphasis mine).

So does this mean we just turn it on and leave it on? Can't imagine that being a thing for very long.

[Embalmo]

I took that to mean that you turn it on and leave it on when not in combat, but would have to refresh per usual in combat.

[kalaratic]

Not sure the cd is even relevant now.

"Invoke ancient symbols of power, increasing all damage you deal by 20% for 35 sec until cancelled, (emphasis mine).

So does this mean we just turn it on and leave it on? Can't imagine that being a thing for very long.

that comes up a lot with datamining, it doesn't mean the buff lasts forever until you cancel it.

they really need to put more work into symbols than this. they finally reduced the energy cost which is great but removing the stealth requirement and bumping up the cd makes it even less of an impactful button.

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also i'm a little sad they removed ES, it's such a cool and unique spell that works with the spec but unfortunately was in the same row with way more powerful options. i really wish they baked it in to symbols and got rid of that disgusting shadow techniques. it would be a really cool legion version of slice and dice for sub

[Clinkzthebonerogue]

So it looks like symbols will be toggled on/off to get the crit buff when we have overflowing energy? Little weird but I guess.

2 set will need to be changed cuz it costs less. but I don't see it being that awful. Still works except you have more convenient access to the 4 set bonus now.

[Critical92]

Don't forget the t20 set boni. Maybe symbols will give energy on use with 2set and the 4set makes the next 3 shadostrikes crit, so a 30 sec cd just means we have the same crit number of strikes as if we used a normal symbols every 10 seconds.

What cought my eye is the wording of the new shadowdance. Maybe shadowdance will give the shoulders buff and maybe that is a way to give shadowdance more meaning when we have less dances in the future.
I hope more informations follow soon.

[Kalador]

They said they are aiming at making SD more valuable witch is super great but what we have from this first ptr is almost nothing to see how they are going to do that.

Also keep in mind that Celestalon​ just tweeted: "FYI, PTR build being datamined right now is extremely incomplete. Only some of the data is included, so things will look weird. Stay tuned."

[Jaronicity]

At least ES has been removed. Too bad for both people who used it.

[Embalmo]

I guess maybe I'm just one of those people that actually enjoyed subtlety, and continued using it even during Outlaw's heyday and the continued Assassination preference.

[Kalador]

I guess maybe I'm just one of those people that actually enjoyed subtlety, and continued using it even during Outlaw's heyday and the continued Assassination preference.

Many people enjoy sub right now, but most rogue agree that there's some room for improving the spec. Removing the teleport of SS, making SD more valuable and reworking SoD a bit are all good thing imo. I can also see why they want to rework AoE rotation a bit.

[Hobbes0773]

I like most of what they want to do, except I don't think Shadowstrike really servers a purpose if they bring back Ambush. You can just reduce the CD of ShS or give it 2 charges. Personally, I think an entire Shadowstep tier where you get different buffs to ShS would be amazing, similar to how warriors have a charge tier.

[shaunika123]

Many people enjoy sub right now, but most rogue agree that there's some room for improving the spec. Removing the teleport of SS, making SD more valuable and reworking SoD a bit are all good thing imo. I can also see why they want to rework AoE rotation a bit.

am i the only one who actually likes the teleport on SS?
they should just make it toggle able somehow so it doesnt fuck you over on stuff like elissande or trilliax

for pvp ofc its atrocious design but i was under the impression they can design spells separately for pve and pvp

[Kalador]

am i the only one who actually likes the teleport on SS?
they should just make it toggle able somehow so it doesnt fuck you over on stuff like elissande or trilliax

for pvp ofc its atrocious design but i was under the impression they can design spells separately for pve and pvp

The teleport is good 90% of the time in PvE, but the 10% where it's not makes it a fucking nightmare... i'm 100% for a simple glyphe solution but it looks like blizz just want to make it an extra movement ability on a cd witch is OK with me.

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http://www.wowhead.com/news=262448/7...for-april-13th

New notes, looking good!

[kalaratic]

....these are really fucking good changes

where the fuck were these people in beta?????

[Deleted]

dafuq, dat new symbol :O

[Clinkzthebonerogue]

Not sure about that new symbol. 30 second cd looks pretty long to utilize anything else except for the nightblade proc LOL.

[permp]

This new ptr notes seems really nice, since i have the boots and bracer on assa i will put my loot spec to SUB and try to get the shoulders or boots.

[elfporn]

....these are really fucking good changes

where the fuck were these people in beta?????

That's a good fucking question.

It sounds to me like we're going to have some tough talent decisions for the first time since we went to the new talent tree system.

[Deleted]

-Deep Shadows now causes all damage you deal to be increased by 35%.

what the fuck is deep shadows?