Blizzard said flying trivialized the content then advertises as a feature!

[SirCowdog]

I think leveling is fine on the ground. But once you hit max level, you've explored enough of the new zones and it's time to break out the flying mounts.

Unless you level primarily using dungeons. Then what? You'll have flying in zones where most people don't.

This is why flying probably should have an entire line of quests, at or near max level, that not only explains the lore and RP reasons for why flight isn't available and how we get it back, but also to control the actual spot that players obtain it in the content release schedule. Think of it in terms of something like getting your other artifacts in Legion, or possible more along the lines of the Garrison campaign quests.

This is also what bothers me most: Blizzard has time to create campaign quests for each of 12 classes, AND time to create quests for all of the crafting professions, but can't be bothered to explain flying, which virtually everyone is going to use?

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Think of flying as reward for actually doing the content. It's not like they're just giving it to you, you have to earn it by doing pathfinder 1 and 2, which requires you to do explorations and quests on a ground mount (ergo, do the content the way it was designed to be done) and you are rewarded later with an easier way of traveling around after completing the requirements.

I see nothing wrong with this. .

Except that the value of flight as a "reward" is completely out of parity with the amount of time and effort required. You only get flying once all the content is exhausted.

Great! So we've got this really powerful tool for getting around content that we've already seen hundreds, if not thousands, of times. :/ Unless 7.3 and further has content I can fly around in when I'm doing it for the first time, flying is about as rewarding as $1 ramen noodles you left out over night to coagulate.

[Fabinas]

You confuse shareholders in Activision, of which Blizzard is only a part, with mythical shareholders in Blizzard, which don't exist. It's a common thing here. "Oh, the shareholders won't like that flying change..." Meanwhile, Activision continues to post record profits and their shareholders are quite content, thank you very much.

1. I didn't mention "Blizzard shareholders" i said generally shareholders. NO confusion here.
2. I never mentioned happiness of anyone in accordance with flight. As you said in the post i replied, Blizzard is happy with metrics. It's an assumption of yours which cannot be supported by the quarterly reeports, as those are vague, are targetted towards shareholders and definitely showcase a pretty image of Blizzard-Activision company.
3. Can't give a fuck if Activision shareholders are happy and with profits, that's not what we discuss here.

I'm not sure why you answered my post.

[Saverem]

Except that the value of flight as a "reward" is completely out of parity with the amount of time and effort required. You only get flying once all the content is exhausted.

Great! So we've got this really powerful tool for getting around content that we've already seen hundreds, if not thousands, of times. :/ Unless 7.3 and further has content I can fly around in when I'm doing it for the first time, flying is about as rewarding as $1 ramen noodles you left out over night to coagulate

That's literally the whole point. They want you to do the content the way they were designed to be done (jump puzzles, explorations, hidden treasures/rares, etc) and once that was done they reward you with flight.

Nothing is stopping you from just stop playing the game if you feel you've completed everything already on your ground mount. The flying mount is a perk for those who still want to keep repeating the same content, but now they can do it more efficiently.

Flight was never meant to be an end all, it's just a perk they give those of us who've done the content as a reward for doing the content. Don't understand why you're so upset over a POSITIVE thing. I'd much rather get flying later on than never...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I don't really see the conflict here. Flying in WoW is a bit complicated in all the effects it has. YES it trivializes some content, being able to fly over obstacles and drop in right at objective. YES it is fun to fly and even more fun after you've played without it for a bit.

Honestly, I think Blizz has done a great job of balancing this, having us first explore and work through the challenges of new zones on the ground, then eventually letting us fly again. It's almost like they're good at this stuff and have a successful model for an MMO.

[SirCowdog]

Flight was never meant to be an end all.

Except, you know....when they built an entire expansion around it(cata).

I don't mind that flying gets used as a reward so long as flying IS a reward. But that's not what it is in Legion. What, exactly, is left to use flying on now that you have it? Archaeology, the completely abandoned profession? Faster farming for crafting mats? THAT'S the reward you get for finishing pathfinder? Alts, if you happen to be interested in them at all, get some benefit. But hope you level boost to 100 or have already finished WoD pathfinder too, otherwise enjoy being grounded there as well while you level.

The value prospect of Pathfinder is absolute trash. If Blizzard wants to use flying as an actual reward, they've got a LOT of content to build for it now that it's available.

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Honestly, I think Blizz has done a great job of balancing this, having us first explore and work through the challenges of new zones on the ground, then eventually letting us fly again.

What, exactly, are you going to fly to that you haven't already seen hundreds of times?

[Saverem]

Except, you know....when they built an entire expansion around it(cata).

I don't mind that flying gets used as a reward so long as flying IS a reward. But that's not what it is in Legion. What, exactly, is left to use flying on now that you have it?

OK, now I know you're trolling. You can't fool me.

[SirCowdog]

OK, now I know you're trolling. You can't fool me.

Just because I put forth an opinion that disagrees with you doesn't mean I'm trolling.

Did you even stop to consider what I said before replying? What is the actual value of flying?

Alts: Great...if you happen to play alts at all. If that's the aim of flying, then Blizzard should dispense with the facade of it being a reward for current content and move it to being purchased and used exactly like all the other heirlooms.

Archaeology: This profession has been effectively abandoned for awhile now. Sure, it's still marginally interesting to some people, but hardly a major feature, and the value of it being made easier as part of flying's "reward" is grasping at straws.

Gathering Professions: This is the one major benefit that I can't really deny. Mining and Herbalism gathering get a pretty good boost out of flight. But tailoring, skinning, and enchanting still need to land and kill things. So flying helps 2 out of the 5....great! Much useful! Many wow!

World Questing: I would say that Flight helps this out a lot, except that the Pathfinder requirements ensure that the lion's share of benefit from doing World Quests is already done by the time you get it. Marginal benefit at best, and not really worth of an 8 month investment of time and effort.

What else is there? Getting to dungeon and raid entrances? Summons largely mitigate that benefit of flight.

So tell me how flying ends up being such a great reward? it MIGHT be a good reward if Blizzard releases more open world content later in the expansion. But if we're being completely honest here, Blizzard's history with later expansion content almost always includes No-flying islands. Argus is almost certainly going to be a no-flying zone, further devaluing the worth of flying as a reward.

Don't get mad at me because I'm pointing out the flaws with this system. Get mad at the system. The only ones trolling here are Blizzard.

[Saverem]

What else is there?

All of those things you listed are you answering your own question about the reward. Getting vastly improved QoL via being able to fly anywhere is a HUGE reward.



Were you expecting to get a free Blizzcon ticket and a handjob upon broken shore completion?

[SirCowdog]

All of those things you listed are you answering your own question about the reward. Getting vastly improved QoL via being able to fly anywhere is a HUGE reward.



Were you expecting to get a free Blizzcon ticket and a handjob upon broken shore completion?

Increased QoL in areas of the game that are largely insignificant? 8 months of waiting for a tiny boost? The ability to more conveniently play content that has already been played to exhaustion?

Your concept of "huge reward" seems a little off.

[xanzul]

Like harming WoW is somehow increasing revenues of other Blizzard games.

In your example the shareholders just don't know what's going on, that's it. The damage is there, they are just clueless to that. Perhaps the sentiment in "the shareholders won't like it" is misguided, as in, the shareholders can't / won't go down to that level of detail, but there is a bigger point here in that if a particular thing is making it worse, then it is making it worse including for the shareholders.

I said it before and I will say it again: shareholders don't give a fuck about the insider politics of this game and community. They didn't invest in Wow. In fact they didn't even invest in Blizzard Entertainment either. They invested in Activision-Blizzard whose companies consist of a very large and diverse portfilio of products spanning numerous markets. Petty temper tantrums over some players not getting what they want in a video game isn't even a blip on the radar for them.


Every single time you people proclaim the death of wow and Blizzard Entertainment or Activision-Blizzard over lack of flying and it seems to never ever come to pass and ATVI's quarterly reports continually show a huge return of investment for shareholders and very strong indications of long term viability for all their current products. Blizzard could shut down wow tomorrow and ATVI would do just fine. It has been nearly 4 years at this point. Give it up already and get some new material.

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Activision shareholders being happy is kinda irrelevant in this topic about WoW because as you yourself say there are no Blizzard sharehodlers and Blizzard is just a part of Activision and WoW is only a part of Blizzard catalog.

Then maybe you and rda and the other haters should stop bringing it up in the first place. At this point what you and the other flybabies are doing now is blatant trolling.

[Paula Deen]

3 Years down the line with Pathfinder etc this is my stance.

Patch X.0 - Pathfinder Achievement
Patch X.1 - N/A
Patch X.2 - Flying Unlocked Instantly if you have Pathfinder

I am quite fond of the idea of it getting old players back and the idea of doing things without it for a time. I would prefer they do it that way than the current way.

[xanzul]

Getting dazed by mobs that aren't really any threat is half the game? Bullshit. You're doing the same thing as - you're trying to tell others how they should play. If running on the ground is half the game to you, keep doing it. I won't stop you or tell you you're playing wrong.

(cue the whiny "but I HAVE TO FLY if everyone else does" bullshit.)

This isn't a matter of play style. All content takes place on the ground and not in the skybox. This is a fact whether you like it or not.

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1. I didn't mention "Blizzard shareholders" i said generally shareholders. NO confusion here.
2. I never mentioned happiness of anyone in accordance with flight. As you said in the post i replied, Blizzard is happy with metrics. It's an assumption of yours which cannot be supported by the quarterly reeports, as those are vague, are targetted towards shareholders and definitely showcase a pretty image of Blizzard-Activision company.
3. Can't give a fuck if Activision shareholders are happy and with profits, that's not what we discuss here.

I'm not sure why you answered my post.

So why continue bringing up shareholders? Honest to god it is this kind of pants on head stupid that derailed the whole flying debate from the getgo.

[Etoo]

Maybe if they could fix their terrain so you don't get stuck on a pebble or root every 10ft, people wouldn't care as much.

[Swag]

Its pure convince really. It's super easy to get almost anywhere w/o flying. That being said, even thought its trivial, it does feel rewarding to get it at the end of so much other stuff in the meta.

[xanzul]

Except, you know....when they built an entire expansion around it(cata).

I don't mind that flying gets used as a reward so long as flying IS a reward. But that's not what it is in Legion. What, exactly, is left to use flying on now that you have it? Archaeology, the completely abandoned profession? Faster farming for crafting mats? THAT'S the reward you get for finishing pathfinder? Alts, if you happen to be interested in them at all, get some benefit. But hope you level boost to 100 or have already finished WoD pathfinder too, otherwise enjoy being grounded there as well while you level.

The value prospect of Pathfinder is absolute trash. If Blizzard wants to use flying as an actual reward, they've got a LOT of content to build for it now that it's available.

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What, exactly, are you going to fly to that you haven't already seen hundreds of times?

This isn't about making you look at the pretty pixels. The point of contention here is flying reduces player interaction with each other and with the open world. This is a problem whether you have seen those pixels 1 time or 100000 times.

[Deleted]

Before you know it we will be RP walking for half the expansion; UNLOCK RUNNING!

or make it so we all have a run button that uses a stamina bar. if you use all the stamina up. you become rooted for 10seconds

[xanzul]

Maybe if they could fix their terrain so you don't get stuck on a pebble or root every 10ft, people wouldn't care as much.

Oh for fucks sake...really? Use the god damn space bar. This right here is why flying is bad for the game because it results in players who can't navigate the simplest of terrain.

[SirCowdog]

This isn't about making you look at the pretty pixels. The point of contention here is flying reduces player interaction with each other and with the open world. This is a problem whether you have seen those pixels 1 time or 100000 times.

It would be more accurate to say that flying potentially reduces the amount of interaction you have with random people in the open world between areas of relevance.

Because I guarantee you if there's something relevant and interesting to do in the game, players will gather in groups and do it, regardless of how they get there. World bosses are one good example of this. It doesn't matter how you get to the boss, when you do reach it you group up and interact with other players to overcome it.

The same thing happened during the invasion events prior to Legion's launch. Players flew in using their own mount, flight paths, ground mounts, or(in the case of extremely low level players) WALKED to the event and interacted with other players.

The real point of contention that you're talking about is the lack of interaction in areas of the game that don't really matter. Oh no! The tragedy that Jobob, Defender of the Frozen Wastes, didn't stop and /wave at me when I ran into him on the road to the quest hub! THE HUMANITY!!!

Besides, if you want player interaction there are guilds and friend lists, as well as the LFG tool. Those are far more powerful tools for player interaction than some ambiguous concept of forcing players together in random places by taking away their ability to fly.

[Sansnom]

That has been one of my biggest annoyances the past couple of years - temporarily removing something that has been in the game for almost a decade and then presenting the return of it as "hey, look what we got for you, aren't we awesome?" and that's just not a good path to walk.

Well, according to some posts, flying was something they apparently did not feel comfortable about. And given the noise from the player base, they felt there were enough support to have it removed.

The irony of it is that those who supported no flying are probably flying right now because they "do not want to be left behind".

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This isn't a matter of play style. All content takes place on the ground and not in the skybox. This is a fact whether you like it or not.

It partially is. The content takes place on the ground. But if I or others prefer to reach that destination by air rather than by ground, why is that an issue for anyone else?

[Fabinas]

This isn't a matter of play style. All content takes place on the ground and not in the skybox. This is a fact whether you like it or not.

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So why continue bringing up shareholders? Honest to god it is this kind of pants on head stupid that derailed the whole flying debate from the getgo.

Oh ffs, read the whole discussion i did with Moanaliza before you barge in with your shit. She mentioned the quarterly reports as proof that Blizz is happy with metrics of WoW and i dismissed that "proof" as only concerning shareholders, being vague and PR shit. Then she started posting like i was arguing about angry Blizzard shareholders about flying etc. Don't come lecturing me about stuff you haven't read.