[Destruction] It's happening

[JustaWarlock]

PTR cycles always go the same, they iterate on mechanical changes and do small balance changes to get spells to be the % of your dmg that they want them to be, and then they go into tuning and blanket buff / nerf accordingly.

We're REALLY far away from having to worry about numbers.

I hear what you're saying, but every past alpha, beta and ptr indicates otherwise.

This is the normal pattern:

Don't worry, it's only alpha, it'll be fixed in beta.
Don't worry, it's only beta it'll be fixed before it goes live.
Don't worry, first patch will fix it.
Don't worry, it's only the PTR, it'll be fixed by live.
Don't worry, next patch will fix it.
Don't worry, it's only early ptr, plenty of time to fix it, the changes that go in at the start almost never make it live.
Don't worry, it's only release candidate, still time to fix it.
Don't worry, this time the next patch really will fix it.

[Lucrece]

The Havoc change is such a shit change, as is keeping RoF at 3 shards and hoping that most people take FnB to offset that for a mere 25% gain to an already mediocre spell.

The nerfs to soul conduit and CDF are also pretty dumb. 55% extra damage to CDF but 66% longer cooldown.

[Gaidax]

I tried it and it's fine really, generation is still pretty decent, there are still CB chains.

I'll try to do some controlled dummy tests, but I can see still plenty of Chaos Bolts if you use live Chaos Bolt spam build with Feretory.

[TummyBoy]

I'm going to stay optimistic for the changes. I'm a Destruction Warlock to my core--have tried other Warlock specs and other classes yet still want to play Destro--and will stay that way. I'm going to assume that Blizzard will do a decent job of keeping us good at something.

However, with that said, this change is looking worse and worse the more I look at it. Right now I can spam Chaos Bolts for long periods of time. Yes, it's RNG, and yes, it's inconsistent and frustrating, but in terms of churning out good numbers it works fairly well, especially on two target fights.

In 7.2.5 the number of Chaos Bolts we cast will be dramatically reduced. 40% doesn't seem like nearly large enough of an increase in damage to compensate. I think they will increase it more (by god if they don't we'll be the worst spec in the game by far), but they're overlooking a couple of things. Our new 4 piece bonus would benefit extremely well from being able to spam Chaos Bolt, but that is effectively being removed from the game. Throw this on top of the Havoc nerf and I really really hope that Blizzard improves our numbers, not only for CB, but for Incinerate, Immolate, and the like. We'll need it.

[Gaidax]

Well people got what they asked for. Havoc nerf and Embers is literally what people preached for here for months.

That said, I do think generation is still a tad too high and in between Soul Conduit, Feretory and Soulsnatcher there is still quite a bit of RNG which can cause you to spam CBs when you luck out or going dry cursing your fate when you don't. If they would really want to smooth out shards, they should have made these static boosts as well, such as certain actions guaranteeing extra shards, for example Soul Conduit - your Incinerate and Chaos Bolt generate one additional shard fragment or Soulsnatcher - your Conflagrate generates 1/2/3/4/5/6 additional shard fragments. Or alternatively smooth out the RNG by boosting proc chances but taming rewards, as in Soul Conduit being 50% chance to refund 3 fragments or Soulsnatcher a scaling % chance based on how many trait point you have to refund 2 fragments, like around 60% chance at 4 points there.

Other than that it's all up to balancing now. Numbers can be done in a blink of an eye, like "lulz Chaos Bolt now does 80% more damage, Destro fixed" or shit like that.

I certainly hope that the drastic Havoc action would result in spec being tuned higher on ST totem pole than it is now, as Blizzard likely realizes that this Havoc change is a downgrade in 2T situations and its likely the tradeoff they wish to make to boost Destruction elsewhere.

I do hope they will also take a pass at Sacrifice and change it into something competitive in that row, as I really miss petless option and also rework Eradication row as a whole - wet dream would be to make something unique like 3 versions of Reverse Entropy where each one gives Mana refund baseline plus does something else.

As a whole I do think one Warlock spec could use not being dependent on Life Tap and pets and imo Destruction is ideal choice there.

[Esinar]

Between Soul Conduit, Feretory and Soulsnatcher there is still quite a bit of RNG which can cause you to spam CBs when you luck out or going dry cursing your fate when you don't. If they would really want to smooth out shards, they should have made these static boosts as well, such as certain actions guaranteeing extra shards, for example Soul Conduit - your Incinerate and Chaos Bolt generate one additional shard fragment or Soulsnatcher - your Conflagrate generates 1/2/3/4/5/6 additional shard fragments. Or alternatively smooth out the RNG by boosting proc chances but taming rewards, as in Soul Conduit being 50% chance to refund 3 fragments or Soulsnatcher a scaling % chance based on how many trait point you have to refund 2 fragments, like around 60% chance at 4 points there.

After testing on the PTR for a good 2 hours yesterday these were pretty much my thoughts as well. With Feretory, Soul Conduit and 4/4 Soulsnatcher there are times where you can cast 5-6 Chaos Bolts in a row (in a row here generally means all benefiting from the reduced cast time of the 2-set bonus), which feels great, but then there's times where it feels like you're just spamming Incinerate for what feels like days, which feels terribly stale.

I think there need to be some tweaks on chance vs reward. So like Gaidax said, something like Soulsnatcher causes Chaos Bolt to have a 10/20/30/40% chance to refund 3 fragments, and Soul Conduit has a 30% chance to refund 3 fragments per shard used, and Feretory has a 30% chance to generate 1 fragment... just stuff like that to help smooth out the RNG and reduce massive swings of Shard regen.

I think our first row of talents could do with a review as well. Backdraft feels really poorly weighted atm due to Chaos Bolt and Incinerate being so vastly different in terms of damage, yet Backdraft affects them both equally - a return to the 3 stacks (stacking up to 6) where Incinerate consumes 1 stack and Chaos Bolt consuming 3 stacks would be an ideal fix for this. Shadowburn since its inception has been borderline useless. Now that the ember system has returned it would be a great opportunity to give us the old Shadowburn back, preferably baseline so there is an extra level of skill/excitement to the class.

One last thing I noticed was that Grimoire:Service had its cost reduced to one fragment. Not sure if it's a bug, but this would be a good change in my opinion that I feel should be rolled out to all pet-summoning spells and for all specs.

[Count Zero]

That's all well and good for locks with Feretory.

[Liarparadox]

That's all well and good for locks with Feretory.

I'm very curious to know how the destro cloak is doing with the buff. Something worth using? I have it and it's such a POS on live right now. Really hoping that buff makes it worth using. Then again, maybe the havoc nerf means this isn't a good enough buff.

[Coldfire989]

Well people got what they asked for. Havoc nerf and Embers is literally what people preached for here for months.

That said, I do think generation is still a tad too high and in between Soul Conduit, Feretory and Soulsnatcher there is still quite a bit of RNG which can cause you to spam CBs when you luck out or going dry cursing your fate when you don't. If they would really want to smooth out shards, they should have made these static boosts as well, such as certain actions guaranteeing extra shards, for example Soul Conduit - your Incinerate and Chaos Bolt generate one additional shard fragment or Soulsnatcher - your Conflagrate generates 1/2/3/4/5/6 additional shard fragments. Or alternatively smooth out the RNG by boosting proc chances but taming rewards, as in Soul Conduit being 50% chance to refund 3 fragments or Soulsnatcher a scaling % chance based on how many trait point you have to refund 2 fragments, like around 60% chance at 4 points there.

Other than that it's all up to balancing now. Numbers can be done in a blink of an eye, like "lulz Chaos Bolt now does 80% more damage, Destro fixed" or shit like that.

I certainly hope that the drastic Havoc action would result in spec being tuned higher on ST totem pole than it is now, as Blizzard likely realizes that this Havoc change is a downgrade in 2T situations and its likely the tradeoff they wish to make to boost Destruction elsewhere.

I do hope they will also take a pass at Sacrifice and change it into something competitive in that row, as I really miss petless option and also rework Eradication row as a whole - wet dream would be to make something unique like 3 versions of Reverse Entropy where each one gives Mana refund baseline plus does something else.

As a whole I do think one Warlock spec could use not being dependent on Life Tap and pets and imo Destruction is ideal choice there.

I am sure you are but I hope you post this kind of good stuff to the Blizzard forums as well.

[Gaidax]

I am sure you are but I hope you post this kind of good stuff to the Blizzard forums as well.

No I don't because I am a EU scrub and they have a proven track record of not giving a damn about EU forums.

[Coldfire989]

No I don't because I am a EU scrub and they have a proven track record of not giving a damn about EU forums.

I will copy and paste anything you like to the IS ones then!!!

[Gaidax]

I will copy and paste anything you like to the IS ones then!!!

Would be great!

[Coldfire989]

US of course I meant lol.

[Gaidax]

US of course I meant lol.

Well I didn't imagine otherwise, I was about to crack a joke about that one, but then thought better not.

[Coldfire989]

lol I was surprised no one had. I didn't even notice it till today that it aid that.

[Qac]

Gaidax for destro president

[Baconeggcheese]

Didn't get a ton of time to muck about but I just did and it honestly doesn't feel all that different. I was expecting it to be far more staggering but you still feel pretty spammy. Imo generation is still too high.

[Count Zero]

Didn't get a ton of time to muck about but I just did and it honestly doesn't feel all that different. I was expecting it to be far more staggering but you still feel pretty spammy. Imo generation is still too high.

Did you have Feretory equipped ?

[Baconeggcheese]

Did you have Feretory equipped ?

Yes, same build as I'm running right now BD / SC, even threw in RE which would increase generation since globals that would be spent on life tap are being spent on incinerate.

There were spots here and there that you had a moment of not casting many cb's, but it was practically the same the majority of the time. Which makes no sense to me, because they basically cut generation in half.

I need to test it more but all the servers are down.

[Ghazan Julio]

Great, I can't wait for them to ruin it after they let us have this for a few patches.