Subtlety PTR Notes

[mcrx]

Well, we lose the 20% dmg boost from Symbols of Death.

they also increase the dmg buff aura that we got from 9%(live) to 30% on top of that 20%

[Deleted]

they also increase the dmg buff aura that we got from 9%(live) to 30% on top of that 20%

I think that aura change is THE 20% dmg buff, not top of that. But maybe im wrong, I hope im wrong

[skylark123]

Are the devs actually stupid? In the previous blue post they stated that they wanted to bring back Ambush to make rogues less mobile and make dance more powerful in PvP.. And they still try to enforce that "Less mobility" but in reality they must be out of their minds?

"Subtlety - Developers’ notes: Our overall goals are to remove uncontrolled player teleport from the baseline DPS rotation, to reduce the frequency of teleporting in PvP"

Then why in the fuck do you give Shadowstep 2 charges and still keep Shadowstrike as a button? and not to mention their delusional design team, every single person has complained about Gloomblade and Backstab not ever being used, (It literally doesnt synergize with anything) it's literally a waste of a global, they are the worst damaging abilities in the game, You might as well press fan of knives (Which everyone is doing - FYI) In order to be more efficent/gain more combo points.. Can they please open their eyes and remove this horrible ability that doesnt do anything what so ever, add Hemorrhage back so we actually have a bleed/uptime/energy regen/combo point builder.. Literally makes no sense to keep on to gloomblade atleast, it's actually a horrible ability!

[Deleted]

The Phantom Assassin honor talent still works with Symbols of Death. you get all 3 buffs when you dance, plus it lasts 7 seconds. I don't see how anyone takes Thief's Bargain or or Shadowy Duel now.

Thief's Bargain was such a fun talent for random bgs, can't pass up that 7 sec duration though. Everyone's gonna take Deep Shadows & Phantom Assassin x)

Also, how do people not take Premeditation now? It still feels the like the best talent, even if you don't take Enveloping Shadows.

[Hobbes0773]

I think its not op at all, because this is the way to do damage. We dont have burst damage, just sustain damage. Rangeds still can kite us like a boss in arena, I dont want to imagine when I dont have teleport on SS in PvP.

They are literally fixing the burst damage issue. Stop looking at every change in a vacuum and go play the spec. They explicitly stated they wanted to reduce the teleporting in PVP.

[shaunika123]

The Phantom Assassin honor talent still works with Symbols of Death. you get all 3 buffs when you dance, plus it lasts 7 seconds. I don't see how anyone takes Thief's Bargain or or Shadowy Duel now.

Thief's Bargain was such a fun talent for random bgs, can't pass up that 7 sec duration though. Everyone's gonna take Deep Shadows & Phantom Assassin x)

Also, how do people not take Premeditation now? It still feels the like the best talent, even if you don't take Enveloping Shadows.

it's almost as if it's not done yet

[Deshi]

Are the devs actually stupid? In the previous blue post they stated that they wanted to bring back Ambush to make rogues less mobile and make dance more powerful in PvP.. And they still try to enforce that "Less mobility" but in reality they must be out of their minds?

"Subtlety - Developers’ notes: Our overall goals are to remove uncontrolled player teleport from the baseline DPS rotation, to reduce the frequency of teleporting in PvP"

Then why in the fuck do you give Shadowstep 2 charges and still keep Shadowstrike as a button? and not to mention their delusional design team, every single person has complained about Gloomblade and Backstab not ever being used, (It literally doesnt synergize with anything) it's literally a waste of a global, they are the worst damaging abilities in the game, You might as well press fan of knives (Which everyone is doing - FYI) In order to be more efficent/gain more combo points.. Can they please open their eyes and remove this horrible ability that doesnt do anything what so ever, add Hemorrhage back so we actually have a bleed/uptime/energy regen/combo point builder.. Literally makes no sense to keep on to gloomblade atleast, it's actually a horrible ability!

Try it on ptr and you will see that SS doesnt teleport you in pvp , well the first time it does if you are out of combat. other than that it works just as ambush!

[Deleted]

They are literally fixing the burst damage issue. Stop looking at every change in a vacuum and go play the spec. They explicitly stated they wanted to reduce the teleporting in PVP.

If we are focusing only for PvP now, I can understand why they removing it, but I dont like it, as I said. If you want burst damage, you need to pick that talent(s) but you have less dances. What are u doing out of dance as a sub? Do 1-2 backstab then wait 3-4 seconds? You have kidney in every 20 sec, thats it. No gouge anymore for example. You cant spam dance for CS, because you dont have much dance like now and harder "hitting back", literally you cant peel. If you want to peel for your mates, you need to press SD, what is your "burst". This is why i dont like that change. Maybe im wrong, maybe not. Who knows. But you was right, we need to play the spec to see what is good and what isnt.

[Kalador]

Are the devs actually stupid? In the previous blue post they stated that they wanted to bring back Ambush to make rogues less mobile and make dance more powerful in PvP.. And they still try to enforce that "Less mobility" but in reality they must be out of their minds?

"Subtlety - Developers’ notes: Our overall goals are to remove uncontrolled player teleport from the baseline DPS rotation, to reduce the frequency of teleporting in PvP"

Then why in the fuck do you give Shadowstep 2 charges and still keep Shadowstrike as a button? and not to mention their delusional design team, every single person has complained about Gloomblade and Backstab not ever being used, (It literally doesnt synergize with anything) it's literally a waste of a global, they are the worst damaging abilities in the game, You might as well press fan of knives (Which everyone is doing - FYI) In order to be more efficent/gain more combo points.. Can they please open their eyes and remove this horrible ability that doesnt do anything what so ever, add Hemorrhage back so we actually have a bleed/uptime/energy regen/combo point builder.. Literally makes no sense to keep on to gloomblade atleast, it's actually a horrible ability!

they're removing the teleport from SS
they gave 2 charge to shadow step to compensate a bit for the mobility lose.(it's still way lower than before)

Shadowstrike, when used out of combat, now deals 30% increased damage and teleports you up to 25 yards behind your target.

Also it's clear they are aiming at making backstab more valuable as they buffed the dmg and lowered dance uptime (without talent)
it's still a filler but almost all energy base spec need a filler to dump energy, saying it's a waist of a globale is a bit harsh, it's a cp generator like mut or saber slash, the one you use out of stealth.
Also asking for hemo back now seems wierd, in wod it was doing so little amount of dmg not using it if you had a bleed on target was basicly dps neutral

Backstab base damage increased by 35%.
Backstab damage bonus from being behind the target reduced to 20% (was 30%).
The Quiet Knife (Artifact trait) now increases damage dealt by Backstab by 5% (was 3%) per point.

[Shivers1]

Is anyone else worried about how potentially dull sub PvE game-play is going to be if they drastically lower our shadow dance up-time?

I know these aren't exactly the spec's glory days, but at least there are some dynamic aspects to our current rotation that keep it from becoming too stale.

I really don't want to feel like I'm just mindlessly spamming back-stab/eviscerate for the majority of an encounter.

[Kalador]

Is anyone else worried about how potentially dull sub PvE game-play is going to be if they drastically lower our shadow dance up-time?

I know these aren't exactly the spec's glory days, but at least there are some dynamic aspects to our current rotation that keep it from becoming too stale.

I really don't want to feel like I'm just mindlessly spamming back-stab/eviscerate for the majority of an encounter.

i think dance uptime is a bit to high but you will probably be able to keep the game play if you like it with talent.

Enveloping Shadows redesigned. Deepening Shadows reduces the remaining cooldown of Shadow Dance by an additional 1.5 second per combo point spent. Shadow Dance gains 1 additional charge.

this basically makes it the same as now...

[Deleted]

Also it's clear they are aiming at making backstab more valuable as they buffed the dmg and lowered dance uptime (without talent)

Yeah, but the damage increase on backstab isnt a good solution, its a realy bad idea. Because after 1-2 backstab still need to wait a lot.

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i think dance uptime is a bit to high but you will probably be able to keep the game play if you like it with talent.

If you like it, you can keep it, but you will do less damage and you will get less energy. Yaaay. Nope.

[Kalador]

Yeah, but the damage increase on backstab isnt a good solution, its a realy bad idea. Because after 1-2 backstab still need to wait a lot.

What do you want then, cause backstab as always been a energy dump for sub, even back in WOD it was basically here to prevent you from capping energy before dance/vanish.

Sub works like that, it's a window spec, you prep for a burst window, everything you do between those window is to make sure your next one is as efficient as possible, backstab is a tool to prevent you from capping energy/give you a CP if you need.

The problem is that those burst window were less valuable because of how fast you get to and it seems like they want to move back to a more bursty spec.

[Deleted]

What do you want then, cause backstab as always been a energy dump for sub, even back in WOD it was basically here to prevent you from capping energy before dance/vanish.

Sub works like that, it's a window spec, you prep for a burst window, everything you do between those window is to make sure your next one is as efficient as possible, backstab is a tool to prevent you from capping energy/give you a CP if you need.

The problem is that those burst window were less valuable because of how fast you get to and it seems like they want to move back to a more bursty spec.

I liked so much the WoD sub, it was like a rollercoaster. You prepared for your burst, then chill, burst again, chill again. But you had more energy regen, more APM, more output than now. I know the backstab's role, but still. You cant be bursty, when you have like 4 seconds to do it (5 if you pick subterfuge over %dmg), instead of 10 (WoD).

[skylark123]

I just tried and it didnt work for shit, I'm still teleporting? lol yeah im on the ptr zz

[elfporn]

Yeah, but the damage increase on backstab isnt a good solution, its a realy bad idea. Because after 1-2 backstab still need to wait a lot.

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If you like it, you can keep it, but you will do less damage and you will get less energy. Yaaay. Nope.

Youre exaggerating on every point here.

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I liked so much the WoD sub, it was like a rollercoaster. You prepared for your burst, then chill, burst again, chill again. But you had more energy regen, more APM, more output than now. I know the backstab's role, but still. You cant be bursty, when you have like 4 seconds to do it (5 if you pick subterfuge over %dmg), instead of 10 (WoD).

You didnt have more energy gen or apm in wod.

[mcrx]

I think that aura change is THE 20% dmg buff, not top of that. But maybe im wrong, I hope im wrong

it's not because on live we currently have the 9% dmg aura and they increased it to 30% on ptr

[Kalador]

I just tried and it didnt work for shit, I'm still teleporting? lol yeah im on the ptr zz

Then go on the PTR forum and post that your still teleporting... this is exactly what PTR is for...its fucking first build, shit are buggy, big surprise...

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I liked so much the WoD sub, it was like a rollercoaster. You prepared for your burst, then chill, burst again, chill again. But you had more energy regen, more APM, more output than now. I know the backstab's role, but still. You cant be bursty, when you have like 4 seconds to do it (5 if you pick subterfuge over %dmg), instead of 10 (WoD).

WoD sub was not faster... also, the 10 sec window of WoD meant you couldn't fill every GCD in it, with 4 sec and perfect play you should be able to fill every GCD...

[Steelwind]

I got to try sub on the PTR...

I REALLY hope they keep the stealth talent options (level 30 nightstalker/sub/shadow focus; level 90 deepening shadows/enveloping shadows/master of shadows) fairly balanced. It feels GREAT being able to 'customize' your shadow dance. Want a big bursty window to crush priority targets? Nightstalker+Deepening. Have a long grindy fight? Sub+Enveloping. These two tiers interact wonderfully and EXEMPLIFY the purpose of the talent choices: to model your character in the image of your playstyle.

[Deleted]

Many people enjoy sub right now, but most rogue agree that there's some room for improving the spec. Removing the teleport of SS, making SD more valuable and reworking SoD a bit are all good thing imo. I can also see why they want to rework AoE rotation a bit.

i wish they would just give us back old SD, but the new (PTR one ofc) doenst look half bad either, and THANK METZEN for putting it off gcd.

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they're removing the teleport from SS
they gave 2 charge to shadow step to compensate a bit for the mobility lose.(it's still way lower than before)



Also it's clear they are aiming at making backstab more valuable as they buffed the dmg and lowered dance uptime (without talent)
it's still a filler but almost all energy base spec need a filler to dump energy, saying it's a waist of a globale is a bit harsh, it's a cp generator like mut or saber slash, the one you use out of stealth.
Also asking for hemo back now seems wierd, in wod it was doing so little amount of dmg not using it if you had a bleed on target was basicly dps neutral

im so happy that they are removing teleport from SS actually, wished they would give us old ambush again (i know SS it basically ambush with teleport, but nostalgic fucker here).