7.2.5 Havoc changes incoming

[Deleted]

Because I'd like to have sustain instead of burst. If we don't have this insane burst (and quite random because of the fury generation), blizz can tune numbers so we would have actual sustain, instead of toping the meters first 30s and then continuously fall throughout the fight.

you're doing something wrong if you fall after 30 seconds tbh. Or are unlucky with the rng, again, most melee classes have a % based ability that increases your damage done, some which even have a mastery to help them with. We have a 4 minute meta cooldown, have fun keeping up with other classes when your % increased damage ability is gone and all you have is a talent. It actually puts you at a disadvantage vs most melee.

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Are we? Where did you get this idea?

Front page, mmo champ

[ssviolett]

Are we? Where did you get this idea?

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/150372-ar...es-of-azzinoth
here

[Shirofune]

I'm currently testing Demonic with Chaos Cleave , and I Must say it is quite nice simming only 10k lower than Chaos Blades spec but there is no freaking RNG with it which makes him way more stable .

Lol, ofc there is RNG. Souls generation is entirely RNG, and without them you've no fury to use skills. The only reason Demonic can be somewhat near of the normal DBlades + Felblade build is because of Chaotic Enslaught, 10% chance to trigger another CS. Again RNG.

Demonic is filled with RNG, the difference is we spam DBite as a filler, instead of doing nothing.

[Littlepwny]

Hope they make Demon Blades talent increase the hit chance of auto-attack (with further reduction of the shadow damage) to completely remove the RNG. But regardless, I am really happy about this change even if it comes with a 7% nerf or so.

PS: Hope Momentum doesn't come back in its previous form; I liked it back then but I find it dreadful now.

[Saybel]

my simmed gear (906) is 830k dps, the lower end is 600, the upper end is 1mil

there is not a single class right now where you can be top one pull and last on another without changing anything (gear, talants)

Are you serious? I have exactly the same amount of variance on my DK. I know many other specs (MM, assa, mage) can have the same problem

[Granador]

Lol, ofc there is RNG. Souls generation is entirely RNG, and without them you've no fury to use skills. The only reason Demonic can be somewhat near of the normal DBlades + Felblade build is because of Chaotic Enslaught, 10% chance to trigger another CS. Again RNG.

Demonic is filled with RNG, the difference is we spam DBite as a filler, instead of doing nothing.

Current Chaos Blade build is pure RNG mate , if u do not get the right stuff u are screwed . Sure demonic has RNG too but uare missing that u can use Demons Bite , the Demons Bite is refundin 30-35 fury per hit and it is 100% chance to give u that fury unlike DB which u can only hope it will proc with 60% chance /

[Backstabak]

you're doing something wrong if you fall after 30 seconds tbh. Or are unlucky with the rng, again, most melee classes have a % based ability that increases your damage done, some which even have a mastery to help them with. We have a 4 minute meta cooldown, have fun keeping up with other classes when your % increased damage ability is gone and all you have is a talent. It actually puts you at a disadvantage vs most melee.

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Oh, so your 2M+ dps burst at the start of the fight lasts till the end of the encounter, nice I guess.

The problem is that we have great burst when we stack our CD, but outside of those cd our damage is below average. I'd like to have our baseline dmg better without that burst. Large part of that burst is CB, because of how powerfull they are. Meta is another thing, because it lasts 30s it has 4min cd, which is obscene. Easy fix is just to half the duration and CD. Nemesis could even be baked as baseline flat % increase. I feel I need to emphasise it, but I argue for more consistent dmg outside our cd instead of powerfull window we have now due to cd.

[Soikona]

Sure, it requires more skill. It doesn't make it fun in bosses like Mythic Star Augur, though. Its just unplayable because of the raid mechanics.

We are not playing WOTLK any more. Cookie cutter is a thing of the past. Sometimes in a raid having like 5% extra DPS is not ideal. You preach mythic star aug as an example... you change talents for Skorp, so what's the problem changing for less DPS to prevent a wipe or are you one of these ones that think getting a "1337 rank" makes you a good raider?

Staying alive and not wiping the raid > DPS & "phat 1337 ranks"

[Shirofune]

We are not playing WOTLK any more. Cookie cutter is a thing of the past. Sometimes in a raid having like 5% extra DPS is not ideal. You preach mythic star aug as an example... you change talents for Skorp, so what's the problem changing for less DPS to prevent a wipe or are you one of these ones that think getting a "1337 rank" makes you a good raider?

Staying alive and not wiping the raid > DPS & "phat 1337 ranks"

We switch for Skorpyron because it's a massive AoE fight, and most, if not all specs in the game, have talents better suited for AoE and ST. And yes, provided you don't fuck up mechanics, the only real difference between two DHs is how much DPS they bring to the table. That's why logs exists for guild recruitment. (and I know there's a lot of stuff here to say to proof me wrong, like legendaries, kill time, etc, but you get the point)

Augur is a ST boss, so is Krosus. The difference is Krosus is not a bitch with mechanics as Augur. If my ST spec involves me jumping around like a drugged rabbit, will the boss mechanics change that? Doubt it.

The thing is, even though a lot of DHs liked Momentum initially (I did, as I said it was the only thing telling who was a good DH and who wasn't), most of them don't anymore.

Why? Because the fucking bosses are filled with spread and stack mechanics for melee, which are already hard to deal with when you've to be behind a boss to avoid parries. When you add to the equation stuff like Star Conjuction... sorry, it just doesn't work.

Momentum looks awesome theorically, but on the practice, it's very poorly implemented. Even fury warriors that have a mechanic that is somewhat similar (Enrage) do not have to dance each 3 GCDs to keep their damage up.

As I said before, either you make Momentum overpowered to make it deal "normal" damage for the people that doesn't do a perfect execution (which is flat out impossible under the current raid enviroments) or you just delete it.

If you want to give the DHs the sensation of movement there're a lot of ways of doing it:

1/ Lowering the GCD while keeping the rotation GCD locked. Spam skills all the time. Make the rotation interesting and it feels like we're doing stuff.
2/ Change the skills animations to show that 'flow' and 'movement'. Make Chaos Strike do a feint on the mob, strike from behind and then go back to the original position.
3/ Keep us busy! Stop giving us open GCDs.

But no, Fel rushing around just doesn't give me that "mobility" sensation anymore. Everytime I've to Fel Rush as a filler I pray I don't end in Africa or inside a mechanic of someone else.

[Cymorìl]

I only pvp, I really hate playing momentum in arena... You very often have to use moving abilities to stick some ranged/healer players. We have just 1 dps spec and should be viable for every content. I think right now momentum is good only in RBG.
That said, I have to admit that I never felt fury starved in arenas, especially in 7.2 where our crit template is 35% so, demon blade changes are a very very little nerf imho, nothing we cant afford . I think it will be a good change to pve players. Fel Barrage, on the other side, I think will be a dps loss in pvp and 2 sec casting can be easy kicked/silenced, only few times someone did this with 1 sec cast.

Oh and I don't play in Tanzania or Nigeria, and I dc many times in arenas. Loosing matches. And ratings.

[Deleted]

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Oh, so your 2M+ dps burst at the start of the fight lasts till the end of the encounter, nice I guess.

The problem is that we have great burst when we stack our CD, but outside of those cd our damage is below average. I'd like to have our baseline dmg better without that burst. Large part of that burst is CB, because of how powerfull they are. Meta is another thing, because it lasts 30s it has 4min cd, which is obscene. Easy fix is just to half the duration and CD. Nemesis could even be baked as baseline flat % increase. I feel I need to emphasise it, but I argue for more consistent dmg outside our cd instead of powerfull window we have now due to cd.

I didn't think I'd need to explain but with fall I mean going from 2 mill burst to 500k or less. (which means you're doing something wrong) Ofcourse you burst high, you'rep laying a burst class whith burst cd's did you expect to stay at 2 mill? Play a dk in that case. Again, most melee classes work this way, you burst high af, then sustain to a certain point, cd's come back up and rise slightly again. Rogues, warriors, mm hunters, survival hunter, shaman, paladin, they all work in a similar way. Again, large part of your burst will obviously always be mostly from your % damage increase, like with most other melee classes, there's always a button that makes you go ham, that's how the game works. Like ??? Your sustain is purely rng based on crits, what do you want em to do? Make crit a shit stat for us and go full ham on mastery? They tried that with windwalker and reworked that completely.

[Musta]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/150372-ar...es-of-azzinoth
here

omfg that and greater rep insignias

[Deleted]

Using the standard build with prepared instead is actually really fun, on the PTR

[Backstabak]

I didn't think I'd need to explain but with fall I mean going from 2 mill burst to 500k or less. (which means you're doing something wrong) Ofcourse you burst high, you'rep laying a burst class whith burst cd's did you expect to stay at 2 mill? Play a dk in that case. Again, most melee classes work this way, you burst high af, then sustain to a certain point, cd's come back up and rise slightly again. Rogues, warriors, mm hunters, survival hunter, shaman, paladin, they all work in a similar way. Again, large part of your burst will obviously always be mostly from your % damage increase, like with most other melee classes, there's always a button that makes you go ham, that's how the game works. Like ??? Your sustain is purely rng based on crits, what do you want em to do? Make crit a shit stat for us and go full ham on mastery? They tried that with windwalker and reworked that completely.

Oh, ok. I'm ilvl 899 HC raider. If I look at the sims I'm suppose to have 750k dps. If I look at the distribution, than I have almost 2M for the initial burst, 1M for 2. CB and another almost 2M for 2. meta. However, inbetweeen the CD dps goes down to sub 500k. I find this bad. I would much rather have smaller burst potential and have higher sustain. I fully grasp the concept of dps CDs and I have nothing against it, however the difference between 2M dsp burst and sub 500k sustain should be smaller. This burst is especially bad, because of the rng fury generation, which should hopefully now improve.

As for the fix, I do agree that there should be an ability that scales with gear. It could even be the CB, they just have to be scaled down in favor of say FB turning chaos dmg or DB being chaos dmg instead of shadow and doing some more dmg.

On a side note, I'm kinda scared what they're trying to do with prepared. I really hope they're not trying to bring back momentum, it's just a major pita for most encounters.

[Deleted]

Oh, ok. I'm ilvl 899 HC raider. If I look at the sims I'm suppose to have 750k dps. If I look at the distribution, than I have almost 2M for the initial burst, 1M for 2. CB and another almost 2M for 2. meta. However, inbetweeen the CD dps goes down to sub 500k. I find this bad. I would much rather have smaller burst potential and have higher sustain. I fully grasp the concept of dps CDs and I have nothing against it, however the difference between 2M dsp burst and sub 500k sustain should be smaller. This burst is especially bad, because of the rng fury generation, which should hopefully now improve.

As for the fix, I do agree that there should be an ability that scales with gear. It could even be the CB, they just have to be scaled down in favor of say FB turning chaos dmg or DB being chaos dmg instead of shadow and doing some more dmg.

On a side note, I'm kinda scared what they're trying to do with prepared. I really hope they're not trying to bring back momentum, it's just a major pita for most encounters.

Don't really understand why anyone would want less burst. Less RNG during the burst phase fine. But how the class is built is perfect for raiding or M+. You have the tools to push bosses through certain phases or annihilate adds, be it single target or AoE. Even if we were below average in terms of dps raids would still use DHs. If there is something that has to die quickly DH's are the perfect class.
A DH without it's burst is just a rogue with less survivability.

[Kroldan]

Demon Hunter

Prepared now generates 100 Fury over 10 seconds (was 40 Fury over 5 seconds).
Havoc

Demon Blades’s proc chance increased to 100% (was 60%).
Demon Blades’s Fury generation is now 6-12 (was 12-20).
Demon Blades now does 50% weapon damage (was 85% weapon damage).

Anger of the Half-Giants generates an additional 1 to 3 Fury when Demon Blades is talented (was 1 to 6 Fury).



Soooo, what do you guys think about it?

[Roshar]

Demon Hunter

Prepared now generates 100 Fury over 10 seconds (was 40 Fury over 5 seconds).
Havoc

Demon Blades’s proc chance increased to 100% (was 60%).
Demon Blades’s Fury generation is now 6-12 (was 12-20).
Demon Blades now does 50% weapon damage (was 85% weapon damage).

Anger of the Half-Giants generates an additional 1 to 3 Fury when Demon Blades is talented (was 1 to 6 Fury).



Soooo, what do you guys think about it?

Considering the news is 2 days old, read the thread to find out what people think.

[ehxy]

Hey guys legion has demonhunters in it what think?

[GamerDH]

Who knows what are we gonna do.

I'm scared of Momentum being a thing again in raids, seriously.

Same. I might have to quit the game if it becomes a thing. Momentum is OK in LFR - Maybe.. (All the other players create ridiculous hazards that make it annoying). In Heroic it gets dangerous and in Mythic it would be near impossible on a lot of bosses. Boss fights are not designed around 1 class having to buzz around every 4-6 seconds like a freaking idiot. This applies not only to the endless ground hazards and tank mechanics we have to avoid (conal fronts), but also how the boss is tanked... (how much room they are allowing melee if at all), the size of boss hitboxes and other mechanics like debuffs that need to be avoided or quarantined (eg. Tichondrious).

It was a terrible playstyle that reduced raid awareness (even though it required more awareness than any other class) and also caused me to get dizzy after a while.

[aGit]

did some ptr testing with the demon blades build. while meta is up the extra haste is enough so i could keep on spamming buttons through out the duration of meta, however once it fell off, things got a little slow, i had around 11% haste and aothg ring. as it is, our dps is sure to take a hit if we keep on with the demon blades build. i don't know how much haste would be needed for this thing to work out nicely, but i fear demon blades in its current form on ptr, is a dps lose to the version we got on live. Even with massive amounts of haste on our gear, we would lose out on mastery or crit, so haste gear alone won't fix our blight.