Brexit bites as EU workers start to say screw you UK we are outa here…

[Deleted]

The way I see it, both the US and the EU are in a minor recession.

But thats only the way you see it. Everyone else, and in special economists, the guys who know what they talk about, talk about a 0,5% growth in early 2017.

But as that doesnt fit to right wing conspiracy theories, alternative facts about this issue are a popular argumentation.

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Multiculturalists and islamophiles try to sell Muslims to us as god-sent multitalents, innovators

And right wing wannabe "conservatives" try to "sell" all people who believe in a specific religion as terrorists, while only a very small fanatic minority are terrorists.

You should learn to read other sources than propaganda press like breitbart or infowars.

[haxartus]

If you're a corporation, having many workers to choose from means you can force them to receive lower pay and less hours. Good for them, bad for us.

Yeah but banning foreign workers doesn't work. The corporation will just move to another country and you lose the tax revenue and even more jobs.
Trying to restrict globalization is just not going to work. It is too late. If you are not willing to work with the global market, other countries will.

[Kalis]

Yeah but banning foreign workers doesn't work. The corporation will just move to another country and you lose the tax revenue and even more jobs.
Trying to restrict globalization is just not going to work. It is too late.

Nobody is banning foreign workers, even UKIP are okay with immigration, it is about having control over which ones come to the UK.

We need doctors, so they get in, we do not need car washers, so they do not get in.

[Mormolyce]

This thread is based on a blog written by one random bloke from Norn Iron, whereas my claim is based on tax receipts from everybody there and public spending, allied with the fact that the state is one of the main employers in the region.

Article 50 was only invoked just over a fortnight ago, nobody knows what will happen with Ulster. Other than we will still not let them build any cruise liners.

I'm aware. I guess we'll see.

[Triks]

The working-class desperately needed some of the strain placed upon them by mass immigration (wage depression, over-supply of low-skilled labour, school overcrowding, NHS strain, apparent rises in crime rates) alleviated. If it means we lose a few sore higher-skilled workers in the process while we train up our own, so be it.

That would mean radical reforms for education and running losses for 17-20 years (basically until you train up the new generation). The German couple got the jobs in Belfast because they were better than some of the local workers.

[bufferunderrun]

i think it may end with ton of cross-border workers like Switzerland, european citizens are forced to live in Ireland cities/villages next the border and then everyday cross it to go work in N.Ireland similar to what happen with swiss/italy border, through i don't really know how good is the transportation around the Ireland/N.Ireland border, are there any fast train, highways that connect both? Judging from google maps it seem belfast is a long ass way from border companies may need to relocate.

[Kalis]

The error here is believing there will be any alleviation once immigration is halted, any money saved by the government will go straight back into the pockets of big businesses and politicians. Or even believing the UK had to deal with mass-immigration to begin with, of course that is subjective, but purely speaking in numbers the UK only took in a fraction of immigrants compared to other nations, whether that is east-europeans or otherwise.

The UK took about 640,000 immigrants in 2015, roughly 1% of the population in one year, with net migration about half that. Which other European nations took a much larger number?

[Kalis]

That is the migrant crisis, which we were insulated from, most immigration into the UK is Asian and East European.

Do you have figures from other European countries showing they took significantly more than 640,000 in just one year? Germany possibly does, but I would be surprised if any other ones took a lot more.

[Mayhem]

That is the migrant crisis, which we were insulated from, most immigration into the UK is Asian and East European.

Do you have figures from other European countries showing they took significantly more than 640,000 in just one year? Germany possibly does, but I would be surprised if any other ones took a lot more.

Here are stats for net migraton per 1000 pop
https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?...c=sw&c=uk&l=en

Here are some raw numbers highlighting since 1990 some major net migration years
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...-GB&start=1990

and finally a bunch of data from the EU for migrant population in each member state
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ion_statistics

I think that is something you're looking for:

[Kalis]

Here are stats for net migraton per 1000 pop
https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?...c=sw&c=uk&l=en

Here are some raw numbers highlighting since 1990 some major net migration years
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...-GB&start=1990

and finally a bunch of data from the EU for migrant population in each member state
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ion_statistics

I think that is something you're looking for:

That graph gives it as a share of population, you could certainly not say that Luxembourg has more immigrants than the UK, considering there are around 8.5 million immigrants in the UK and Luxembourg has a population of about 0.5 million.

A UN report in 2015 gave immigrant population levels as:

1. US 46.6m
2. Germany 12.0m
3. Russia 11.6m
4. Saudi Arabia 9.0m
5. UK 8.5m
6. Canada 7.8m
7. France 7.8m
8. UAE 7.8m
9. Australia 6.7m
10. Spain 5.8m

Those figures show the claim that "...even believing the UK had to deal with mass-immigration to begin with, of course that is subjective, but purely speaking in numbers the UK only took in a fraction of immigrants compared to other nations, whether that is east-europeans or otherwise" is nonsense, considering we have the fifth largest immigrant population in the world. A fraction of the US maybe.

[Mayhem]

That graph gives it as a share of population, you could certainly not say that Luxembourg has more immigrants than the UK, considering there are around 8.5 million immigrants in the UK and Luxembourg has a population of about 0.5 million.

A UN report in 2015 gave immigrant population levels as:

1. US 46.6m
2. Germany 12.0m
3. Russia 11.6m
4. Saudi Arabia 9.0m
5. UK 8.5m
6. Canada 7.8m
7. France 7.8m
8. UAE 7.8m
9. Australia 6.7m
10. Spain 5.8m

Those figures show the claim that "...even believing the UK had to deal with mass-immigration to begin with, of course that is subjective, but purely speaking in numbers the UK only took in a fraction of immigrants compared to other nations, whether that is east-europeans or otherwise" is nonsense, considering we have the fifth largest immigrant population in the world. A fraction of the US maybe.

Who gives a fuck about total numbers? You're a large country, still you have a smaller immigrant population as a percentage than 10 other EU members.

Stop bringing up the notion that what the UK takes in in number of immigrants would be unbareable for every nation.

[Kalis]

As an Irishman, I say

GIVE US BACK THE 6! GIVE US BACK THE 6!

You cannot get back what you never had in the first place.

Who gives a fuck about total numbers? You're a large country, still you have a smaller immigrant population as a percentage than 10 other EU members.

Stop bringing up the notion that what the UK takes in in number of immigrants would be unbareable for every nation.

Are you saying that the fifth largest immigrant population in the world is not mass immigration? If not, then you are disagreeing with the claim I pointed out was rubbish.

[Triks]

You cannot get back what you never had in the first place.



Are you saying that the fifth largest immigrant population in the world is not mass immigration? If not, then you are disagreeing with the claim I pointed out was rubbish.

He has a point. You are a nation of 60 million, 8.5 is nothing.

[Kalis]

He has a point. You are a nation of 60 million, 8.5 is nothing.

No he does not have a point, as the claim was that the UK has not had mass immigration, whereas 8.5 million people (roughly the entire population of the country Mayhem comes from) has moved to the UK as immigrants.

If everyone in Austria moved to Germany, would it be mass immigration or not? Yes or no.

This is the original claim:

"Or even believing the UK had to deal with mass-immigration to begin with, of course that is subjective, but purely speaking in numbers the UK only took in a fraction of immigrants compared to other nations, whether that is east-europeans or otherwise."

[Triks]

No he does not have a point, as the claim was that the UK has not had mass immigration, whereas 8.5 million people (roughly the entire population of the country they come from) has moved to the UK as immigrants.

If everyone in Austria moved to Germany, would it be mass immigration or not? Yes or no.

If they went up and moved today it would. If they did it over a 5 year period it wouldn't - Austria is 12% the population of Germany.

If it is about the original claim, bigger countries took more because that's how it evens out (for the refugees at least). 640,000 for you is nothing, for us it is a 1/7 of our population. Don't know about immigrants from EU countries but I doubt the entirety of Poland, Romania and Bulgaria upped and moved. Poland is 40 million people, doubt you have more than 2 at max.

[Kalis]

If they went up and moved today it would. If they did it over a 5 year period it wouldn't - Austria is 12% the population of Germany.

The number of immigrants would still be the same, so it is either mass immigration or it is not. Are you really going to claim that 8.5 million people moving to a country is not mass immigration? What arbitrary number would it have to be in order for it to count as mass immigration?

[Triks]

The number of immigrants would still be the same, so it is either mass immigration or it is not. Are you really going to claim that 8.5 million people moving to a country is not mass immigration? What arbitrary number would it have to be in order for it to count as mass immigration?

It is about having the needed infrastructure to handle the influx. That's why the refugees became a migrant crisis - we didn't have a plan on how to deal with them when they eventually came. I consider everything above 20% of the total population to be mass immigration.

EDIT: I am going out. I will respond when I come back.

[Caaethil]

"Mass migration refers to the migration of large groups of people from one geographical area to another."

It's Wikipedia, contest it if you want, but nowhere do I see the definition of mass immigration having anything to do with how much anyone can 'handle it'. It's a non-factor in the discussion, the idea that it's only a small percentage is meaningless. Whether or not that mass immigration is harmful is a separate debate.

[Kalis]

If it is about the original claim, bigger countries took more because that's how it evens out (for the refugees at least). 640,000 for you is nothing, for us it is a 1/7 of our population. Don't know about immigrants from EU countries but I doubt the entirety of Poland, Romania and Bulgaria upped and moved. Poland is 40 million people, doubt you have more than 2 at max.

640,000 was in one year.

It is about having the needed infrastructure to handle the influx. That's why the refugees became a migrant crisis - we didn't have a plan on how to deal with them when they eventually came. I consider everything above 20% of the total population to be mass immigration.

We did not have many issues with the migrant crisis, as we have a natural border that protected us from it and there was no way a Tory government would open up the borders.

The original poster spoke of mass immigration, then when asked to provide data supplied it from the migrant crisis, but much of the debate on Brexit was EU freedom of movement and that was primarily about cheap Eastern European labour, not people from the wartorn countries depicted in the graphic, like Syria, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Albania

You have got give credit to the Albanians, they are top grade chancers.

[Mayhem]

Are you saying that the fifth largest immigrant population in the world is not mass immigration?

Yep that is what i'm saying as percentage wise it is far less than what other countries take in.

If austria would take in 600.000 in one year it would be almost 10% for the UK it's 1% ... 1% increase is mass immigration to you?