That feel when blizzard nerfs your already garbage class/spec...

[Demonpuke]

No one said it was your fault that arms is being "balanced and/or fixed" on the PTR. (BTW arms will never out perform fury at this point in the expansion so dont be hopeful)

It is however, YOUR fault if you kept throwing AP into arms up until now and you didnt keep fury's AP level viable. This type of tuning "Fury>Arms at expansion end" has been going on for a decade.

[Deleted]

Arms is still not a garbage spec, its middle of the pack with almost no one playing it. Its just that Fury can do so much more, and they can do it way more reliably. Changing the stat balance for arms is a step in the right direction, and hopefully we will see other changes as the PTR progresses. Draught will probably also be nerfed when ToS is released so 7/7 US stacking fury warriors will be brought down a bit.

It has nothing to do with how well the spec performs damage wise but how the spec feels to play. They could make Arms the worst dps in the game for all I care. I just want the spec to not feel like a slot machine.

[Teaon]

i'd take the other party and say its a buff, with more damage to abilities, they could scale better with strength.

need testing

[Holofernes]

its for sure a change to the better on the long run.

At current state and trinkets, it is a clear nerf, as we rely too much on mastery- ridden cd stacking, cutting the mastery by 20 % will hurt us more than the 10 % style dmg bonus.

For the future, (next raid tier) it opens opportunity to make arms gearing a little bit easier, and scale better with itemlvl, as mastery gets kicked down from its high throne (my arms warrior currently has a mastery stat weight of 1.8, compared to versa 1.3 , haste 1.2 and crit 0.75). with this change, mastery should go down to like 1.4 or so, and the other stats come up a little bit, and strength (or ilvl) getting more of an impact in gearing.

I really think cutting down mastery a bit is a good start, but the compensation buff has to be bigger than 10 %. And whats great about arms playstyle is this cooldown based dmg peaks u dish out. If they destroy this, they destroy the unique feeling of Arms warrior in pve.

And back to the matter: i see this community is like a herd of sheep, if somebody says fury is better, than 90 % of you change to fury. But in reality, its not better. a few arms warrior are still out there, and their single target performance is at least on par with furys. whatever bossfight u see the top logs for, there will be an arms warrior on the first page of the logs. it is few, because less than 10 % of the warrior logs are arms, but it is more than 10 % of the top logs are from arms warriors in most raid encounters.

Fury is easier to play and more consistent, yes. But arms is still doing strong, and everybody who says otherwise is just one of the many sheep out there.

[Anbokr]

^ The problem is that "top" Arms ST parses are often due to massive RNG in one's favor.

Fury is much much much more consistent. And unlike EN, you can actually rack up many charges of Juggernaut on mythic NH fights which is what puts Fury ahead on ST for this raid tier. I'm sure if NH was EN and all these bosses ran away or phase changed at various points in execute, Arms would still beat Fury in ST. But it's just plain wrong to say it does right now -- Fury is the better ST and overall spec in NH.

Yeah, I do agree a lot of people are sheepish, but that's WoW. People want to play the better overall spec and they swarm into it making maybe a 5-10% deficit look like a 10-30% one. It was hilarious seeing all the warriors (some of them well respected ) flip flop on their "Arms will still be better! Arms will still be better!" mantra after NH actually came out.

The arms buff is 15% right now on PTR; I think if they just go ahead and bump it to 20% the spec will be golden. Nice sustained AoE buff, ST becomes a wash if not a 1% buff, and allows for much better itemization and some decent scaling. At 15% we get about half of that, but likely a minor nerf on ST provided decent RNG with high (90%+) CS uptime.

The fury vs arms balance will be very interesting once Fury loses this set bonus. The t19 set bonus is pretty much perfect for Fury and the t20 looks like complete ass -- it will screw with DoS, it will lead to lower enrage uptime overall, and it won't be that useful in the execute phase. Not to mention going forward specs with non-tier BiS legs could benefit tremendously. If your bis are cloak/helm like Fury, it's going to be a tough sell throwing on 6 tier pieces. If you can get away with equipping 6 tier pieces AND maintain your bis legs, your spec is set up for success -- especially if your 2pc is pretty decent and you get some nice titanforge.

[Merkicus]

What are you talking about? The spec won't be less RNG with these changes as they don't affect the reset chance on CS at all. It's still just gonna be a fucking slot machine and it's unbelievable that Blizzard can't see this problem.

If they tune it right it won't be as bad of a slot machine because you'll do a lot better damage outside of CS

[Deleted]

If they tune it right it won't be as bad of a slot machine because you'll do a lot better damage outside of CS

Not really since Arms dmg is shit when CS is not up on the target.

[Atherions]

Not really since Arms dmg is shit when CS is not up on the target.

And that is what they are changing

[Deleted]

And that is what they are changing

All you people care about are how the numbers look and not how it feels to play a spec. These changes won't solve anything for Arms. Still gonna feel shit to play.

[Anbokr]

All you people care about are how the numbers look and not how it feels to play a spec. These changes won't solve anything for Arms. Still gonna feel shit to play.

You just complained that the spec does shit damage outside of CS. They are increasing the damage the spec does outside of CS and reducing the damage tied up in CS specifically...

I mean if you got complaints about how the spec plays by all means air them, but we're just going by what you've posted thus far.

[Deleted]

No one said it was your fault that arms is being "balanced and/or fixed" on the PTR. (BTW arms will never out perform fury at this point in the expansion so dont be hopeful)

It is however, YOUR fault if you kept throwing AP into arms up until now and you didnt keep fury's AP level viable. This type of tuning "Fury>Arms at expansion end" has been going on for a decade.

Wtf are you even talking about?
ARms is in no shape of form a garbage spec. Fuckin heroic raider with shit logs giving advice to other players? (BTW arms will never out perform fury at this point in the expansion so dont be hopeful) I'm out performing you by a mile as arms so what about that?

[f3llyn]

Latest PTR. War dog increased by 10%, Mastery -20%. Feels bad man.

It's also the very first iteration of the 7.2.5 ptr. I'm fairly certain that's not all the changes they have in store for Arms.

At least I hope not. I would love for Arms to be as fun to play as fury is... the current Arms is just... bad? I think that's a good word for it.

[Deleted]

You just complained that the spec does shit damage outside of CS. They are increasing the damage the spec does outside of CS and reducing the damage tied up in CS specifically...

I mean if you got complaints about how the spec plays by all means air them, but we're just going by what you've posted thus far.

I posted my complaints a few times already in this thread so you're probably not looking well enough. The spec is pure RNG. You're just sitting there hoping for a Tactician proc when you press your abilities and when you don't get any it feels like shit. That's the problem Blizzard should have their focus on first, not the numbers tuning.

[Toppy]

I'd rather they just make the talents we have, useful.

I miss overpower. I miss not having to use focused rage. Why have they not even touched arms talents when its very clear that some of them you would never ever use.

- - - Updated - - -

You just complained that the spec does shit damage outside of CS. They are increasing the damage the spec does outside of CS and reducing the damage tied up in CS specifically...

I mean if you got complaints about how the spec plays by all means air them, but we're just going by what you've posted thus far.

This isnt going to change arms being a roulette wheel of waiting for CS procs, not in any way.

[Deleted]

Why is everyone complaining? Thats exactly what the community asked for.
If it ends up as a buff or nerf is just a matter of tuning. But increasing damage outside of CS and descreasing dependance on mastery is actually a good thing.

[Deleted]

Why is everyone complaining? Thats exactly what the community asked for.
If it ends up as a buff or nerf is just a matter of tuning. But increasing damage outside of CS and descreasing dependance on mastery is actually a good thing.

No what we asked for was for Blizzard to rework the spec so it wasn't all about waiting for Tactician to proc and praying for RNG to be on your side. All Blizzard has done here is tweaking some numbers which solves absolutely nothing about the main problem for Arms.

[jettzypher]

But damage shifted away from mastery/Tactician/CS and into baseline means more damage overall with less need for Tactician procs to spike damage. Which means less slot machine feel and less worry of dry spells on Tactician procs. Hmmm...

[Atherions]

It will still be a slot machine it will just have higher lows and lower highs

[Toppy]

Why is everyone complaining? Thats exactly what the community asked for.
If it ends up as a buff or nerf is just a matter of tuning. But increasing damage outside of CS and descreasing dependance on mastery is actually a good thing.

One thing the community has asked for is for talents to be useful and not must picks.

Blizzard has not addressed this at all.

[Beefkow]

10% buff 20% mastery nerf solves virtually nothing.

Am I still going to use focused rage build?
Is overpower still not viable?
Do I still have to pray to the RNG gods that CS will reset?
Is crit still a dead stat?

If you answered yes to all of the 4 questions, arms is still going to FEEL like garbage.

I am all for the adjustment, but we have the shattered defenses golden trait which empowers your next MS/execute. As long as we have a "on your next MS/execute" passive, focused rage will always be the go-to talent.

To put simply, Focused rage build is boring, there is still a reliance on CS RNG, and arms talents offer virtually no alternatives.