WTF is wrong with MW

[xGLxAnubis]

we are referring to mythic raiding. none of what you said applys to mythic raiding. Sure you can walk into a heroic encounter and spam what ever you want and it wont matter. If you want to effuse/SG spam the entire fight, you prob wont wipe (assuming other healers are there to carry you with that playstyle.)

MW is fine in every other difficulty minus Mythic which is what this thread specifically refers to. I would encourage you to name ANY mythic NH fight where you can get away with casting effuse/EnvM and not relying on EF spam. If you have logs, that would be great too.

Did you actually read my post or see the word 'Effuse' and skip the rest? Nowhere do I state that you simply EnM and Effuse spam and call it good. I'm showing the efficacy of using Effuse/EnM compared to a Paladins FoL (Same cast time and their tank healing spam ability). And if you're tank healing and your other healers are raid healing, it's rare that you need to cast Essence Font outside of specific heavy raid damage situations. Normally you use Vivify on the tanks when you get a proc. That combined with RM is enough to assist your other healers through most raid damage. During heavy raid damage phases, Revival (Or another healers CD) + a single Essence Font followed by Vivify or Effuse (For the double GoM proc on the main target) is enough. Once the HoT wears off, if the raid is still low, you repeat with a single EF followed by Vivify/Effuse. If this doesn't work, you probably need to evaluate your other healers to figure out why 2 or 3 raid healers + you couldn't keep your raid alive.

My healing comp is Resto Druid, Shaman, Priest, MW Monk. For reference.

[Avada Kedavra]

Did you actually read my post or see the word 'Effuse' and skip the rest? Nowhere do I state that you simply EnM and Effuse spam and call it good. I'm showing the efficacy of using Effuse/EnM compared to a Paladins FoL (Same cast time and their tank healing spam ability). And if you're tank healing and your other healers are raid healing, it's rare that you need to cast Essence Font outside of specific heavy raid damage situations. Normally you use Vivify on the tanks when you get a proc. That combined with RM is enough to assist your other healers through most raid damage. During heavy raid damage phases, Revival (Or another healers CD) + a single Essence Font followed by Vivify or Effuse (For the double GoM proc on the main target) is enough. Once the HoT wears off, if the raid is still low, you repeat with a single EF followed by Vivify/Effuse. If this doesn't work, you probably need to evaluate your other healers to figure out why 2 or 3 raid healers + you couldn't keep your raid alive.

My healing comp is Resto Druid, Shaman, Priest, MW Monk. For reference.

Just to put the single target tank healing theory to rest, here are the logs for 7.2+.

Here is the tank healing. For claritys sake, ill preface this with THERE ARE ZERO MW LOGS OUT OF THE 1000 LOGS AVAILABLE. If that already doesnt put the argument to rest, here is the data.

Here are HOW MANY parses where A HOLY PALADIN HAD THE MOST TANK HEALING:

Skorpyron: 97/100
Chronomatic Anomaly: 99/100
Trilliax: 97/100
Spellblade Aluriel: 99/100
Tichondrius: 88/100
Star Augur Etraeus: 71/100
Krosus: 98/100
High Botanist Tel'arn: 96/100
Grand Magistrix Elisande: 98/100
Gul'dan: 84/100

Again MW has 0/1000
paladin has 927/1000

No we are not ST or tank healers. Ever. not at all. not even once.

[xGLxAnubis]

Just to put the single target tank healing theory to rest, here are the logs for 7.2+.

Here is the tank healing. For claritys sake, ill preface this with THERE ARE ZERO MW LOGS OUT OF THE 1000 LOGS AVAILABLE. If that already doesnt put the argument to rest, here is the data.

Here are HOW MANY parses where A HOLY PALADIN HAD THE MOST TANK HEALING:

Skorpyron: 97/100
Chronomatic Anomaly: 99/100
Trilliax: 97/100
Spellblade Aluriel: 99/100
Tichondrius: 88/100
Star Augur Etraeus: 71/100
Krosus: 98/100
High Botanist Tel'arn: 96/100
Grand Magistrix Elisande: 98/100
Gul'dan: 84/100

Again MW has 0/1000
paladin has 927/1000

No we are not ST or tank healers. Ever. not at all. not even once.

I don't know of another MW that has ever even TRIED to stack Crit/Mastery and ST heal. Not one. Ever. Not at all. Not even once.

Frankly it's surprising. Because seriously, we're phenomenal. Our kit is excellent for ST and Blizzard continues to give us better tools for it (Seriously, a Cloud every time we Effuse? 15s Sheilun's Gift. That's a 1.5million heal non-crit EVERY 15 seconds. For free).

And that argumentum ad populum? Bring that to Blizzard, I'm sure they'll change things.

But hey, keep doing what doesn't work for you, and complaining, and I'll keep doing what does work for me.

[Avada Kedavra]

I don't know of another MW that has ever even TRIED to stack Crit/Mastery and ST heal. Not one. Ever. Not at all. Not even once.

Frankly it's surprising. Because seriously, we're phenomenal. Our kit is excellent for ST and Blizzard continues to give us better tools for it (Seriously, a Cloud every time we Effuse? 15s Sheilun's Gift. That's a 1.5million heal non-crit EVERY 15 seconds. For free).

And that argumentum ad populum? Bring that to Blizzard, I'm sure they'll change things.

But hey, keep doing what doesn't work for you, and complaining, and I'll keep doing what does work for me.

Bruh, i have no idea what you are arguing. You say MW rivals hpaly when it comes to ST/tank healing if we change our stat pri. I posted log data that 100% proves that so wrong I almost didnt even entertain the idea of posting my response because the discrepancy of what you are saying vs reality were cataclysmicly different.


there is no point in arguing with a heroic MW about mythic problems. you dont seem to understand what 99% of the MW community is saying. Your response is "lol dont raid heal, ST tank heal instead with crit/mastery. Its super great and totally a viable playstyle. BTW its so meta and good that there are ZERO MW out there curerntly doing that, oh and we are comparable to hpaly tank healing, just ignore that hpaly beats us 100% of the time on 100% of the bosses, those logs are obviously incorrect cause im doing ok in my raid team."

that is literally your argument. if thats what works for you then go right ahead, but the 99% of the rest of the MW community will continue to point out the rediculous discrepancy between MW and all the other healers.

[xGLxAnubis]

Bruh, i have no idea what you are arguing. You say MW rivals hpaly when it comes to ST/tank healing if we change our stat pri. I posted log data that 100% proves that so wrong I almost didnt even entertain the idea of posting my response because the discrepancy of what you are saying vs reality were cataclysmicly different.


there is no point in arguing with a heroic MW about mythic problems. you dont seem to understand what 99% of the MW community is saying. Your response is "lol dont raid heal, ST tank heal instead with crit/mastery. Its super great and totally a viable playstyle. BTW its so meta and good that there are ZERO MW out there curerntly doing that, oh and we are comparable to hpaly tank healing, just ignore that hpaly beats us 100% of the time on 100% of the bosses, those logs are obviously incorrect cause im doing ok in my raid team."

that is literally your argument. if thats what works for you then go right ahead, but the 99% of the rest of the MW community will continue to point out the rediculous discrepancy between MW and all the other healers.

Yes, Hpally beats ALL 0 of the MW Monks who are ST gearing and healing in raid that parse. Because for some reason, none TRY. Your argument is that no MW monks try to ST because there are no MW monks that rank... But none try, so how can any rank? It's solid Catch 22 you've got rolling on top of your ad populum. Again, see what Blizzard thinks of that argument. I'm sure they'll take it and make lots of big changes!

Get some solid 350/400% Mastery, 30% crit, 3 other healers that are strong Raid heals, and see what you can do focusing on tank heals while they focus on the raid. Make Effuse/Vivify your go to heals. Use Sheilun's gift every 15-20s. ALL MW's should. Try it. See what happens.

My guild doesn't parse, but it's funny you keep calling me a heroic raider. It's amusing despite the reality.

[Avada Kedavra]

Yes, Hpally beats ALL 0 of the MW Monks who are ST gearing and healing in raid that parse. Because for some reason, none TRY. Your argument is that no MW monks try to ST because there are no MW monks that rank... But none try, so how can any rank? It's solid Catch 22 you've got rolling on top of your ad populum. Again, see what Blizzard thinks of that argument. I'm sure they'll take it and make lots of big changes!

Get some solid 350/400% Mastery, 30% crit, 3 other healers that are strong Raid heals, and see what you can do focusing on tank heals while they focus on the raid. Make Effuse/Vivify your go to heals. Use Sheilun's gift every 15-20s. ALL MW's should. Try it. See what happens.

My guild doesn't parse, but it's funny you keep calling me a heroic raider. It's amusing despite the reality.

im just waiting for you to post anything solid. Hyperbole is just that. like data, parses, logs, armory, ANYTHING to substantiate your view and I get nothing from you.

I am not sure what other information I can provide to you. If you think MW is 100% fine and no changes are needed then there is no point arguing since you have ignored 100% of the data I have included.

also have you read the rest of the thread? how can everyone that has posted in here be wrong and you *alone* think you are correct. The only people that think MW is fine are heroic raiders and below, so please forgive me for assuming you are a heroic raider.

[Gorsameth]

My guild doesn't parse, but it's funny you keep calling me a heroic raider. It's amusing despite the reality.

You make a claim, that MW can single target heal on the level of a paladin with 0 evidence. Back it up with logs so people can see how right you are.

saying 'my guild doesn't parse' is horseshit. Nothing prevents you from typing /combatlog and uploading the log.

[Nyel]

I think I need to defend him a bit - I understand what he wants to say but I can't agree wholeheartedly.

He is right that our ST healing capabilities improved a lot with the new traits. I am gearing towards Mastery + Haste / Crit for the “new“ Effuse / SG playstyle. Mistweavers are now great at spot healing with Effuse + Mastery and throwing in many SGs for free ST heals with a small but significant AoE component. I'd say we are pretty good ST / spot healers since 7.2 but... we are no Paladins and never will be. We don't have the abilities to compete with them as tank healers. We might be on the same level as Holy Priests focussing on ST and we're pretty good at it but we are not able to compete with HPaladins on that manner.

Furthermore that's not one of the issues resulting in the dire state Mistweavers are right now. All of our skills cost too much Mana / don't heal enough. Revival with the new trait is far better but in comparison it's still pretty underwhelming. Vivify without proc is underwhelming. Most of our talents are underwhelming. Essence Font was the skill that made us somehow competitive when we had enough Mana to use it properly. Blizzard is taking away our most efficient way of healing by giving us nothing to compensate this nerf. 23% more healing and 10% less Mana cost on a 12sec CD skill are nice but don't help when our other heals don't get improved. The buff to Vivify is laughable at best.

So spot healing with ~ 350% Mastery and the new traits is great, it feels fresh and the results are pretty good. But: it doesn't make us a better healer at all. We can't rely on that spot healing because Effuse all alone is just too weak. Our toolkit offers much more but it's degraded by a) the incredible Mana costs or b) the “quality“ of our skills / talents (as said above, most of them are pretty bad).

It's impossible for us to compete with a good RDruid HPS wise, it's impossible to compete with a HPaladin Mana wise and it's impossible to compete with a RShaman CD wise. Are Mistweavers bad? No, they aren't. Are Mistweavers bad compared to other healers? Yes, they are. That's the point.

[xGLxAnubis]

im just waiting for you to post anything solid. Hyperbole is just that. like data, parses, logs, armory, ANYTHING to substantiate your view and I get nothing from you.

I am not sure what other information I can provide to you. If you think MW is 100% fine and no changes are needed then there is no point arguing since you have ignored 100% of the data I have included.

also have you read the rest of the thread? how can everyone that has posted in here be wrong and you *alone* think you are correct. The only people that think MW is fine are heroic raiders and below, so please forgive me for assuming you are a heroic raider.

I gave you some raw numbers. If you don't know how to interpret numbers the game gives you, I'm not going to go out of my way to log a fight JUST to appease you. I don't know if you know this, but I don't care at all what you think, Mr. Stranger On The Internet. I posted about MY experiences in hopes they'd help other people. If someone refuses to CONSIDER what I'm saying, then I don't really care to convince them of anything. You keep posting logs when the community at large as been force fed "Vers/Crit/Essence Font! Don't do anything else!" and are perplexed when MW monks aren't represented at high levels and NONE try to do ST healing instead (You really think Blizz would make Paladins god tier tank heals and not have a substitute in class in mind when a Paladin isn't available?). Your data is meaningless when Monks (Yourself included) refuse to entertain the notion that we ST well with some minor adjustments (In gearing and play style) and point to that data as your argument to reinforce itself. Just look at some basic math, and you can see that Effuse/Gust with EnM is on par with FoL direct healing and far more efficient in terms of mana. Then start to consider Vivify procs, Sheilun's gift healing, the fact that's free, and it's effective CD. You should be able to get a pretty clear picture of how that compares to a Paladin.

Try. It. Yourself.

[Nyel]

Just look at some basic math, and you can see that Effuse/Gust with EnM is on par with FoL direct healing and far more efficient in terms of mana.

Your fault is you're focussing on Flash of Light when there is so much more in a Paladins repertoire when it comes to (ST) healing. Holy Shock, Beacon, their talents for Mana management etc.

[briggz]

Yes, Hpally beats ALL 0 of the MW Monks who are ST gearing and healing in raid that parse. Because for some reason, none TRY. Your argument is that no MW monks try to ST because there are no MW monks that rank... But none try, so how can any rank? It's solid Catch 22 you've got rolling on top of your ad populum.

I mean are you actually suggesting you have some how figured out how to play MW better than everyone else, including the best players in the world. There is a ton of data that says your dead wrong, yet were all supposed to take your word that your way is some how better with out any proof. If I actually expressed my opinion of this BS I would be perma banned...... like I can't even understand how someone could be this stup......... never mind

[xGLxAnubis]

I think I need to defend him a bit - I understand what he wants to say but I can't agree wholeheartedly.

He is right that our ST healing capabilities improved a lot with the new traits. I am gearing towards Mastery + Haste / Crit for the “new“ Effuse / SG playstyle. Mistweavers are now great at spot healing with Effuse + Mastery and throwing in many SGs for free ST heals with a small but significant AoE component. I'd say we are pretty good ST / spot healers since 7.2 but... we are no Paladins and never will be. We don't have the abilities to compete with them as tank healers. We might be on the same level as Holy Priests focussing on ST and we're pretty good at it but we are not able to compete with HPaladins on that manner.

Furthermore that's not one of the issues resulting in the dire state Mistweavers are right now. All of our skills cost too much Mana / don't heal enough. Revival with the new trait is far better but in comparison it's still pretty underwhelming. Vivify without proc is underwhelming. Most of our talents are underwhelming. Essence Font was the skill that made us somehow competitive when we had enough Mana to use it properly. Blizzard is taking away our most efficient way of healing by giving us nothing to compensate this nerf. 23% more healing and 10% less Mana cost on a 12sec CD skill are nice but don't help when our other heals don't get improved. The buff to Vivify is laughable at best.

So spot healing with ~ 350% Mastery and the new traits is great, it feels fresh and the results are pretty good. But: it doesn't make us a better healer at all. We can't rely on that spot healing because Effuse all alone is just too weak. Our toolkit offers much more but it's degraded by a) the incredible Mana costs or b) the “quality“ of our skills / talents (as said above, most of them are pretty bad).

It's impossible for us to compete with a good RDruid HPS wise, it's impossible to compete with a HPaladin Mana wise and it's impossible to compete with a RShaman CD wise. Are Mistweavers bad? No, they aren't. Are Mistweavers bad compared to other healers? Yes, they are. That's the point.

Mostly this, except the spot healing bit. Don't spot heal with Effuse, tank heal. Vivify will handle your spot healing, or your other healers will. AoE healing is handled by single EF followed by Effuse/Vivify on the affected targets for the double Gusts proc.

- - - Updated - - -

Your fault is you're focussing on Flash of Light when there is so much more in a Paladins repertoire when it comes to (ST) healing. Holy Shock, Beacon, their talents for Mana management etc.

Of course, HPaladin has other tools. I'm just starting with the comparison of our main heals and how Effuse v FoL is better, then explaining that the rest of our kit is ALSO good for what I'm suggesting.

People are so stuck on EF spam because that's been the way of life all expansion and can't see past the fact that we DO have alternatives now. It's actually pretty common for things like this to happen. Groupthink et al.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean are you actually suggesting you have some how figured out how to play MW better than everyone else, including the best players in the world. There is a ton of data that says your dead wrong, yet were all supposed to take your word that your way is some how better with out any proof. If I actually expressed my opinion of this BS I would be perma banned...... like I can't even understand how someone could be this stup......... never mind

Well, no, not exactly. But there does have to be a first person to come up with something, right? And not better, because this is strictly worse for raid healing. It's different, not better. It fills a completely different role in your healing comp.

More than likely I suspect the top players, by and large, long ago abandoned playing MW at a high level and find no reason to come back to it and try new things when their current class is working as intended. Or most people are too stuck on groupthink and/or what they know and refuse to/haven't considered trying something new. Because getting set on an idea and having a hard time accepting something you believed to not be true is human nature. You, for example, based on your reply.

What's perplexing here is that I'm not advocating for people to try something terribly outlandish... Gear for Mastery, focus on healing your tank and let your other healers worry about the raid. Use EnM and hit your tank with Effuses, keep RM up like normal, Vivify one of the tanks when it procs (or if they're topped off, someone who isn't. Normal healer stuff you know), seldom us EF and always follow up EF casts with Effuse/Vivify. If it doesn't work, you wipe a couple times, right? Where's the harm. I don't get it. Why are people so outraged at my assertion? Try. It. It's a different style healing than you're used to, certainly. But if you think your current style is broken, you have literally nothing to lose.

[Avada Kedavra]

Mostly this, except the spot healing bit. Don't spot heal with Effuse, tank heal. Vivify will handle your spot healing, or your other healers will. AoE healing is handled by single EF followed by Effuse/Vivify on the affected targets for the double Gusts proc.

- - - Updated - - -




Of course, HPaladin has other tools. I'm just starting with the comparison of our main heals and how Effuse v FoL is better, then explaining that the rest of our kit is ALSO good for what I'm suggesting.

People are so stuck on EF spam because that's been the way of life all expansion and can't see past the fact that we DO have alternatives now. It's actually pretty common for things like this to happen. Groupthink et al.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, no, not exactly. But there does have to be a first person to come up with something, right? And not better, because this is strictly worse for raid healing. It's different, not better. It fills a completely different role in your healing comp.

More than likely I suspect the top players, by and large, long ago abandoned playing MW at a high level and find no reason to come back to it and try new things when their current class is working as intended. Or most people are too stuck on groupthink and/or what they know and refuse to/haven't considered trying something new. Because getting set on an idea and having a hard time accepting something you believed to not be true is human nature. You, for example, based on your reply.

What's perplexing here is that I'm not advocating for people to try something terribly outlandish... Gear for Mastery, focus on healing your tank and let your other healers worry about the raid. Use EnM and hit your tank with Effuses, keep RM up like normal, Vivify one of the tanks when it procs (or if they're topped off, someone who isn't. Normal healer stuff you know), seldom us EF and always follow up EF casts with Effuse/Vivify. If it doesn't work, you wipe a couple times, right? Where's the harm. I don't get it. Why are people so outraged at my assertion? Try. It. It's a different style healing than you're used to, certainly. But if you think your current style is broken, you have literally nothing to lose.

You surely cant be this dense. Dude open your eyes bro. You are trying to take MW and shove them into a niche they dont belong in. Do we have a ST healing kit? sure every healer has that. Lets look at our niche for each of the raid tiers since monk release.

MoP
MV - AOE healer
ToES - Aoe healer
HoF - Aoe healer
ToT - Aoe Healer
SoO - Aoe healers

WoD
HM - Aoe healer
BrF - Aoe healer
HfC - Aoe healer to the extreme

Legion
EN - aoe healing
ToV - Aoe healing
NH - Aoe healing

are you seeing a trend here? Obviously ST healers we are not. Nor will we ever be. That is not our niche. Can i ST heal someone? sure. Should I gear and prioritize that healing style over the intended style we are DESIGNED FOR? no, that would make me a stupid choice to bring to any encounter/instance.

[xGLxAnubis]

You surely cant be this dense. Dude open your eyes bro. You are trying to take MW and shove them into a niche they dont belong in. Do we have a ST healing kit? sure every healer has that. Lets look at our niche for each of the raid tiers since monk release.

MoP
MV - AOE healer
ToES - Aoe healer
HoF - Aoe healer
ToT - Aoe Healer
SoO - Aoe healers

WoD
HM - Aoe healer
BrF - Aoe healer
HfC - Aoe healer to the extreme

Legion
EN - aoe healing
ToV - Aoe healing
NH - Aoe healing

are you seeing a trend here? Obviously ST healers we are not. Nor will we ever be. That is not our niche. Can i ST heal someone? sure. Should I gear and prioritize that healing style over the intended style we are DESIGNED FOR? no, that would make me a stupid choice to bring to any encounter/instance.

I have a hard time believing we're DESIGNED as an AoE healer with our current kit. You do understand what ALL your abilities do, right? We have 1 very expensive AoE channel and a HoT with a CD... And that's it. Very clear and defined AoE healing design >_> Compared to Gusts of Mists, Effuse, EnM, Sheilun's Gift, Soothing Mist, Vivify, Vivify Procs... (Vivify is KIND of AoE, but as a cleave heal it's more for Offtank/Low AoE damage than it is any real AoE heal).

*Shrugs* All I see on the forums are people complaining about how our AoE healing is shit. I give a fresh perspective on something I've found to work and people still complain. If you don't want to try it, don't. But until then you can't actually tell me it doesn't work you can only tell me that other people aren't doing it. I don't care if other people are or are not doing it, if it works that's what's relevant. Go try it out, give it a real shot (you know, learn how to play it and gear for it), then tell me it doesn't work. You're not going to change MY mind, because I do just fine using the playstyle and don't spend my time complaining on the forums about how the play style I was told to use by the community doesn't work and so Blizz should fix it.

inb4 one boss pull and you claim it doesn't work.

(Also, reread my posts. I NEVER claimed that MW doesn't need some help. We SHOULD be viable Raid healers. 100%. Absolutely. That's not my argument.)

[Nyel]

Are you seeing a trend here? Obviously ST healers we are not. Nor will we ever be. That is not our niche. Can i ST heal someone? sure. Should I gear and prioritize that healing style over the intended style we are DESIGNED FOR? no, that would make me a stupid choice to bring to any encounter/instance.

I think 7.2 offered us a ST focused healing playstyle with Effuse / SG + Mastery. I think our new capability of spot healing is pretty solid and a good alternative to the AoE healing we were meant to be. Does that mean the new spot healing playstyle is the thing? No. But it's an alternative that works pretty good (for us as Monks, not necessarily in comparison with a Paladin).

[Avada Kedavra]

I think 7.2 offered us a ST focused healing playstyle with Effuse / SG + Mastery. I think our new capability of spot healing is pretty solid and a good alternative to the AoE healing we were meant to be. Does that mean the new spot healing playstyle is the thing? No. But it's an alternative that works pretty good (for us as Monks, not necessarily in comparison with a Paladin).

You are correct, the ST kit was slightly improved. But there have been RESOUNDING feedback that SG is a waste and what is the #1 gripe with SG? its that it is 99% of the time overheal cause of its cast time.

So now they made it so we can cast it more often but it still has a long ass cast time. It doesnt even matter if you have a 15 stack, cause aside from the small aoe component the ST heal is still in the same spot of too long a cast and its overheal

Im just saying ST healers we are not, and trying to say "yea we arefine just dont look to logs to corroborate it but we are the new hpalys" is BS and really takes away from the real point of this thread.

[Gorsameth]

What's perplexing here is that I'm not advocating for people to try something terribly outlandish... Gear for Mastery, focus on healing your tank and let your other healers worry about the raid. Use EnM and hit your tank with Effuses, keep RM up like normal, Vivify one of the tanks when it procs (or if they're topped off, someone who isn't. Normal healer stuff you know), seldom us EF and always follow up EF casts with Effuse/Vivify. If it doesn't work, you wipe a couple times, right? Where's the harm. I don't get it. Why are people so outraged at my assertion? Try. It. It's a different style healing than you're used to, certainly. But if you think your current style is broken, you have literally nothing to lose.

People are talking back because you do not link actual evidence for your assertion that it is a good way to heal.
Its really simple. If you think you found a good way to heal then log it, upload and show people.

Instead you make an outlandish claim (MW as good as HPala at ST healing), refuse to back it up with logs and acts surprised people dispute your claim.

[ElDoorO]

I gave you some raw numbers. If you don't know how to interpret numbers the game gives you, I'm not going to go out of my way to log a fight JUST to appease you. I don't know if you know this, but I don't care at all what you think, Mr. Stranger On The Internet. I posted about MY experiences in hopes they'd help other people. If someone refuses to CONSIDER what I'm saying, then I don't really care to convince them of anything. You keep posting logs when the community at large as been force fed "Vers/Crit/Essence Font! Don't do anything else!" and are perplexed when MW monks aren't represented at high levels and NONE try to do ST healing instead (You really think Blizz would make Paladins god tier tank heals and not have a substitute in class in mind when a Paladin isn't available?). Your data is meaningless when Monks (Yourself included) refuse to entertain the notion that we ST well with some minor adjustments (In gearing and play style) and point to that data as your argument to reinforce itself. Just look at some basic math, and you can see that Effuse/Gust with EnM is on par with FoL direct healing and far more efficient in terms of mana. Then start to consider Vivify procs, Sheilun's gift healing, the fact that's free, and it's effective CD. You should be able to get a pretty clear picture of how that compares to a Paladin.

Try. It. Yourself.

Please post a link to the logs. I'd very much like to see, specifically, something to back up your claim. Unless your guild banned posting logs then you can post them yourself. If you guild banned posting logs then your claim is not really to be trusted. If you don't care to convince someone of your claims because you lack evidence to back them up then I'm sorry but you opinion is more likely to be opinion and not fact.

Further we're talking about top parses. It's assumed that the best MW's are the top parses, much like the other healers. So they wouldn't follow the "Crit/Vers/EF spam" pattern (I believe vers/crit was swapped this patch).

We're under no obligation to "entertain" you. OP made a claim backed up factual data. You can respond with factual data... or end up ignored.

So, I beg you, show us your mystical ways that you claim exist. Prove them. Show us something every single top Mythic MW raider in the world doesn't know. I'd love to be wrong and stay MW instead of going to druid. You can convince me with proof instead of words typed at a keyboard and opinions.

[Deleted]

ST healers always have lower meter numbers but provide a vital role to your healing core: Keeping your tanks alive through anything. Druids can't do that.

Druids are actually the very best at that AND top the meters on every fight

[xGLxAnubis]

Please post a link to the logs. I'd very much like to see, specifically, something to back up your claim. Unless your guild banned posting logs then you can post them yourself. If you guild banned posting logs then your claim is not really to be trusted. If you don't care to convince someone of your claims because you lack evidence to back them up then I'm sorry but you opinion is more likely to be opinion and not fact.

Further we're talking about top parses. It's assumed that the best MW's are the top parses, much like the other healers. So they wouldn't follow the "Crit/Vers/EF spam" pattern (I believe vers/crit was swapped this patch).

We're under no obligation to "entertain" you. OP made a claim backed up factual data. You can respond with factual data... or end up ignored.

So, I beg you, show us your mystical ways that you claim exist. Prove them. Show us something every single top Mythic MW raider in the world doesn't know. I'd love to be wrong and stay MW instead of going to druid. You can convince me with proof instead of words typed at a keyboard and opinions.

A. Not only is that a lot of work for something that was a mere suggestion for people to try (Seriously, how has this been blown this far out of proportion?)
B. I've never posted my character information, in any form, to MMO-C and don't plan on starting now. That very quickly turns into people making claims such as "Well I'm X/10M and you're only Y/10M, so your argument is invalid" et al. rather than actually arguing the point. I also don't trust MMO-C trolls to not harass me ingame (Because seriously, some MMO-C posters are pretty awful), so I won't be doing that, thank you.

Like I've mentioned, I don't care if people don't believe me. The intent was to offer an alternative to people who are otherwise only complaining about the current play style. "Hey guys, try this other playstyle. In my personal use, I've found it to be comparable to Paladin healing while be more mana efficient. I can do exactly what a paladin does."