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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Dispraise View Post
    I remain in disbelief that this many people here are arguing in defense of adults fucking children.

    Really?
    We have a weird combination of desperate losers and the kind of autistic pseudo-rationalists that navel-gave over things like "polyamory". It's the most MMOey of all MMO-Champ topics.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Okay I missed that one, my bad.

    But no, I'm not actually convinced that there is an Age of Consent (as in a natural age at which consent becomes possible, not the law). Do I think a toddler can consent? No. Do I think that there is a magical age at which that changes? I really doubt it's that simple. Maybe some people are ready at 10 and some aren't ready at 40.
    Yes, you are...because you know that a toddler can not consent. You just aren't sure exactly what the age should be.

    Is it right for the state to deny someone the right to consent, based on personal feelings/social mores/arbitrary rules about their particular age? You can look at the extremes and say yes, but what about the middle cases? It's very serious for the state to become the arbiter of who can and cannot consent to something. It's a rather insidious idea - consent is the fundamental foundation of a liberal society, to say that someone can't consent is to strip them of their entire ability for self-determination.
    State determines lots of things about children. Does requiring children to go to school also strip them of their ability for self-determination? What about requiring children to be in the care of parents or guardians....don't they have the right to self-determine if they want to live on the streets? Parents make medical decisions for their children...are we robbing them of the ability to self-determine whether they want those "ouchie" vaccination shots?
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobblo View Post
    No. Law making need not scientific basis at all. Your examples of morality govern law making. But we don't all agree on the same morality.

    That is exactly what I said: law making does not necessarily reflect science, which is why religious morale, for example, may carry more weight into changing a law than new scientific findings. It is also what commonly happens...

    Anyway, you still have not grasped - or are being purposely dense - the difference between age of consent and maturity. The former reflects what we believe is right or wrong, for a number of reasons, it is a law and yes, we do not all agree on what is right and wrong; the latter explains the stages of cognitive development and it is based upon scientific research. According to science a 14 year old is not in the same developmental stage than a 34 year old, thus she simply cannot give the same informed consent an adult would do because she is not an adult yet - I am keeping the feminine because of the article but of course the same goes for boys. If the law puts the age of consent at 14, the 34 year old will not have any legal trouble but he will still be fucking a person that is nowhere nearly as mature as he is, that is just a biological and psychological fact.

    The difference in the age of consent among teenagers is that teenagers are in the same developmental stage, meaning there is not such an high risk for manipulation or emotional abuse. If we were to follow what psychology and neuroscience tell us, we would have brackets for age of consent that correlate to the stages of maturity: circa from 12 to 17 y.o., then from 18 to 26 y.o. and finally from 27 y.o. on. Obviously, the law would become very complicated and likely never pass! Try telling people that the new age of consent for sex among adults is 27 because before that humans are not quite adults yet...

  4. #284
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispraise View Post
    I remain in disbelief that this many people here are arguing in defense of adults fucking children.

    Really?
    I'm absolutely amazed myself, maybe I shouldn't be. The idea that people are okay with this is absurd.

  5. #285
    Legendary! Vargur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelziBhaal View Post
    I'm nearly 35 and I've been banging the shit out of what is probably one of the hottest 16 year olds in the world for nearly 9 months. In fact, the first time I got her into bed was on her 16th birthday. Am I a degenerate?
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  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Maybe ready for a sexual relationship at the age of 10? Now I know you are messed up.

    And that is tough shit. A minor does not get to decide when they are a adult.
    How do I know? I'm not in their heads. Why don't you think the "not ready at 40" is equally ridiculous anyway?

    And once again you're begging the question, who gets to decide at what exact age you're a minor?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    Yes, you are...because you know that a toddler can not consent. You just aren't sure exactly what the age should be.
    No, it's also possible that there is no age at which it changes and that different people mature at different rates and times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicari View Post
    State determines lots of things about children. Does requiring children to go to school also strip them of their ability for self-determination? What about requiring children to be in the care of parents or guardians....don't they have the right to self-determine if they want to live on the streets? Parents make medical decisions for their children...are we robbing them of the ability to self-determine whether they want those "ouchie" vaccination shots?
    You don't think that robbing someone of their ability to consent is a little more serious than fining their parents if they don't go to school?

    And actually as you'll no doubt know from this very forum parents making medical decisions for their children is also a controversial topic. Also, minors can emancipate themselves from their parents if they can show it's in their best interests. You can't emancipate yourself from age of consent laws though, the state has decided it knows better than you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The "state" is created by the people.
    And the people are the ones that say children need to be children first.
    And they get to decide what constitutes "a child"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobblo View Post
    So teenagers won't ever do this to other teenagers?
    If your argument didn't say how old you are, this would have said it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizix View Post
    That is exactly what I said: law making does not necessarily reflect science, which is why religious morale, for example, may carry more weight into changing a law than new scientific findings. It is also what commonly happens...
    As much as it's been derided, religious-based morality would indeed carry a lot of weight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    How do I know? I'm not in their heads.
    I'm beginning to wonder if your even old enough to be posting here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    And once again you're begging the question, who gets to decide at what exact age you're a minor?
    And they get to decide what constitutes "a child"?
    The people created the state. Why is this difficult to grasp?
    If you want things to change you have to convince people. And your posts as well as one other's, have already been interpreted "as defending an adult's desire to screw children."
    So get out there and tell people that an adult should be free to do whatever with a 10yr old.
    But you damn well better not live in the US. We have Megan's Law here.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if your even old enough to be posting here.

    The people created the state. Why is this difficult to grasp?
    If you want things to change you have to convince people. And your posts as well as one other's, have already been interpreted "as defending an adult's desire to screw children."
    So get out there and tell people that an adult should be free to do whatever with a 10yr old.
    But you damn well better not live in the US. We have Megan's Law here.
    I'm probably older than you :P

    Difficult to grasp? I'm asking you questions to prompt you to question what you've accepted uncritically.

    But you'd rather try to paint me as a pedo because that's more comfortable for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Difficult to grasp? I'm asking you questions to prompt you to question what you've accepted uncritically.
    Answered twice, then you ask it again?
    How many times does it take to sink in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    But you'd rather try to paint me as a pedo because that's more comfortable for you.
    If you had children or even cared for them you wouldn't be talking this shit.
    So if you think your older than me...(not likely. I recall that there might be two others here that might be...and you were neither of them) I can only conclude that your "in the closet."
    But think! What happens when you go public with your arguments that de facto defends child predators?

  10. #290
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Answered twice, then you ask it again?
    How many times does it take to sink in?

    If you had children or even cared for them you wouldn't be talking this shit.
    So if you think your older than me...(not likely. I recall that there might be two others here that might be...and you were neither of them) I can only conclude that your "in the closet."
    But think! What happens when you go public with your arguments that de facto defends child predators?
    You have made some excellent responses, but I think you are wasting your time.

    He is smart enough to know if he was too public with it, he may end up with a royal ass kicking. It is so easy to hide behind the web.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    You have made some excellent responses, but I think you are wasting your time.

    He is smart enough to know if he was too public with it, he may end up with a royal ass kicking. It is so easy to hide behind the web.
    I don't think this is a compelling rebuttal. I say things here that I don't say publicly; this isn't because I don't genuinely think I'm correct but because we have a cultivated a social system that deeply punishes even the slightest defection on certain matters. In some ways, I think this is basically OK, but it does mean that anonymous discussions will tend to be more open and tend to have more room to explore taboo ideas.

    I think Mormolyce's views on this topic are viscerally repulsive, but that isn't actually an argument. I've mostly stopped engaging in this thread and it's basically because I think even discussing the idea of a 13 year old consenting to sex with an adult ticks me off and doesn't add value, but if someone's going to discuss it with these people, it's worth engaging with better arguments than "someone would hit you IRL".

  12. #292
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't think this is a compelling rebuttal. I say things here that I don't say publicly; this isn't because I don't genuinely think I'm correct but because we have a cultivated a social system that deeply punishes even the slightest defection on certain matters. In some ways, I think this is basically OK, but it does mean that anonymous discussions will tend to be more open and tend to have more room to explore taboo ideas.

    I think Mormolyce's views on this topic are viscerally repulsive, but that isn't actually an argument. I've mostly stopped engaging in this thread and it's basically because I think even discussing the idea of a 13 year old consenting to sex with an adult ticks me off and doesn't add value, but if someone's going to discuss it with these people, it's worth engaging with better arguments than "someone would hit you IRL".
    Go for it. Myself, I am done repeating myself over and over. So it would be waste of my time. There does come a moment when the best response is none. Ignoring some people can be beneficial.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Go for it. Myself, I am done repeating myself over and over. So it would be waste of my time. There does come a moment when the best response is none. Ignoring some people can be beneficial.
    Well yeah, like I said, I'm not going to bother. I stopped engaging people after roughly the 14th lap around the autistic relationship to the world that a bunch of people in this thread have. All I'm saying is that it's not compelling to basically say, "your argument is socially unacceptable".

  14. #294
    The Patient BelziBhaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargur View Post
    You're a god.
    Thanks, I guess.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think Mormolyce's views on this topic are viscerally repulsive, but that isn't actually an argument.
    When you think about how we legislate stuff into laws...it actually is.
    For example, in MA, "upskirting" wasn't illegal until a particular case became hot with the media, moral outrage and complaints flew fast. Equally fast was legislation. I think it took all of one day to get that bill signed into law.

  16. #296
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    When you think about how we legislate stuff into laws...it actually is.
    For example, in MA, "upskirting" wasn't illegal until a particular case became hot with the media, moral outrage and complaints flew fast. Equally fast was legislation. I think it took all of one day to get that bill signed into law.
    Which is a good thing. Good morality ( while subjective to what is good ) is a important force against evil in the world. And any attempt to justify sex by a adult with a minor is evil in my opinion. It is just my opinion and not one supported by some laws, but sex with anyone who is not a legal adult by a adult should be unlawful.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Which is a good thing. Good morality ( while subjective to what is good ) is a important force against evil in the world. And any attempt to justify sex by a adult with a minor is evil in my opinion. It is just my opinion and not one supported by some laws, but sex with anyone who is not a legal adult by a adult should be unlawful.
    I'm in complete agreement...even the "morality" part, which tends to shift at times with every generation or so. I just hope that the current context doesn't shift to a point where morality becomes irrelevant. Maybe I'm getting old and sappy, but I a tend to take a reassured pleasure seeing little children play, the innocence I equate with puppies, kittens, and butterflies...let them play just a little longer.

  18. #298
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm in complete agreement...even the "morality" part, which tends to shift at times with every generation or so. I just hope that the current context doesn't shift to a point where morality becomes irrelevant. Maybe I'm getting old and sappy, but I a tend to take a reassured pleasure seeing little children play, the innocence I equate with puppies, kittens, and butterflies...let them play just a little longer.
    Yep I agree. Having raised 3 kids, enjoy the moments when they are young, because once they grow up ( They grow up too fast! ) those moments are only a good memory.

  19. #299
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    As much as it's been derided, religious-based morality would indeed carry a lot of weight.
    You understand this is a bad thing, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And your posts as well as one other's, have already been interpreted "as defending an adult's desire to screw children."
    Not by anyone with an ounce of sense. Fun fact: You can make an argument without supporting whatever it is you're supposedly "defending".

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    So get out there and tell people that an adult should be free to do whatever with a 10yr old.
    But you damn well better not live in the US. We have Megan's Law here.
    The second sentence has absolutely no relevance to the first sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Which is a good thing. Good morality ( while subjective to what is good ) is a important force against evil in the world. And any attempt to justify sex by a adult with a minor is evil in my opinion.
    There is no such thing as "good and evil".

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Which is a good thing. Good morality ( while subjective to what is good ) is a important force against evil in the world. And any attempt to justify sex by a adult with a minor is evil in my opinion. It is just my opinion and not one supported by some laws, but sex with anyone who is not a legal adult by a adult should be unlawful.
    There is no such thing as good and evil there only view points who collide.
    Every one thinks they are doing the right thing for their own reasons and views.

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