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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I once heard of this place called Europe, specifically Germany, seems to be doing pretty well. Also this region called Asia where we have/are currently keeping the situation stable for countries instead of a Chinese take over. Then again what do I know, I'm only certified to teach history.
    As a history teacher, you should know to define your terms first/tell him to do so. To me, it is quite clear that he is talking about American interventionism causing instability in a region/exacerbating it. That is quite different from America making sure that the war they'd been drawn into does not lead into more wars (Europe, Japan). Those occurrences are actually the opposite of what America is being criticized in the world police context - they only acted at all after being attacked themselves and made sure that things transitioned properly afterwards.

    The same goes for Asia's stability - that is caused by the US (and by extension the UN, which is actually prohibiting it, but requiring the US to give its words weight) acting as a deterrent against random aggression and land grabs, but not by interventionism. Usually, the US is criticized for taking sides in interior conflicts in countries, not conflicts between countries to preserve peace. One can be against the former and for the latter without any hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hombregato View Post
    I've come to terms with the fact that regardless of what we do we will be criticized by European folks. We choose to participate in the world: Stop being the world police!!!, we try to isolate: Stop being so xenophobic!!!

    Also this bears reapeting:
    Apples and oranges. I for example was always against the US intervening in Syria in the first place, but I am also against them just leaving it behind completely after they allowed the conflict to escalate this far to begin with. While I am for taking in those in need of refuge, I would like to see them return to their home countries to rebuild them, once safe.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Part of the problem is that when European countries withdrew from their colonies, they sort of left us to clean up their mess, which meant that all the hate that those people had toward Europeans just transferred over to us. Meanwhile, Europeans get to sit back and point the finger at us for trying (and failing) to resolve problems that they caused, even though we are doing a much better job of it than they ever could.

    The hate from the third world I can understand, because to them, the USA is the big bad guy always sticking our nose in their business and screwing them over to profit ourselves. But the hate from the first world, get the fuck out of here with that shit, Europeans (and Canadians/Australians/Japanese/whatever) were no better than us when they have had the same power, and in many cases were far far worse.
    Yes, Europe fucked it up. But that was by design. See, it's not that Europe wanted to pull back from those colonies. Europe pulled back because the colonies told Europe in no uncertain terms that they'd like to rule themselves because supposedly they'd be doing a better job at governing themselves. Why is Europe sitting back you ask? Well, we're sitting back going "Yeah, we can see how you're governing yourself in a manner that helps your people... I'm not looking at you Palestine, totally not looking at you most of Africa."
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, Europe fucked it up. But that was by design. See, it's not that Europe wanted to pull back from those colonies. Europe pulled back because the colonies told Europe in no uncertain terms that they'd like to rule themselves because supposedly they'd be doing a better job at governing themselves. Why is Europe sitting back you ask? Well, we're sitting back going "Yeah, we can see how you're governing yourself in a manner that helps your people... I'm not looking at you Palestine, totally not looking at you most of Africa."
    So pretty much, Europeans realized colonialism was ending, but just as one last fuck you to all the native peoples who dared to resist your rule you poisoned the well on the way out and laughed as these countries inevitably struggled to deal with the problems you created, just so you could sit back and delude yourselves into thinking that imperialism was somehow a good thing. And then we the big retarded USA stumbles in trying to set everything right in our typical brute force, inelegant way, you just thumb your noses at us as if this wasn't your fault all along.

  4. #164
    Where is my chicken! moremana's Avatar
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    Its amazing that 90% of these posts reveal that the creator has no clue.

    The world as we know it would not exist without America.

    We police the world because no one else can. If you don't like it, do it yourself or you could ask Putin to do it.

    Crawl back under your safety rock and come out when you have a helping hand to lend, until then, we got this shit.

  5. #165
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    USA is nothing but a world tyrant. They're trying to enforce their way of life on everybody else by force.

  6. #166
    Christ. I thought this was a joke thread for a while. You have to be dangerously ignorant and naive to even be considering that the US is "world saviour" or (LOL) "world healer".

    I'm not saying that there aren't many other countries that are just as bad, but US has spent decades meddling in affairs the world over and fucking with everything to further their own interests.
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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    Its amazing that 90% of these posts reveal that the creator has no clue.

    The world as we know it would not exist without America.

    We police the world because no one else can. If you don't like it, do it yourself or you could ask Putin to do it.

    Crawl back under your safety rock and come out when you have a helping hand to lend, until then, we got this shit.
    Yeah, there'd be a lot less angry terrorists without the US constantly stirring shit up.

  8. #168
    I have no delusions the US is a world savior, but it is de facto world police against crimes against humanity. No one else seems to want to take up the mantle.

    I hate that we get sucked into conflicts that we don't need to be. However, the world is becoming largely interconnected. Trade is up and people/ideas move around faster than ever. Conflicting views create tension and violence which needs to be quelled for peace. The US having the largest forces to do so and moral imperative to seek peace usually puts us inside situations when others refuse to act.

  9. #169
    The Lightbringer De Lupe's Avatar
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    I think "God Complex" would be more accurate.

    We've decided that we are to free the world from itself, one country at a time.

    If that isn't arrogance, I don't know what is.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Part of the problem is that when European countries withdrew from their colonies, they sort of left us to clean up their mess, which meant that all the hate that those people had toward Europeans just transferred over to us. Meanwhile, Europeans get to sit back and point the finger at us for trying (and failing) to resolve problems that they caused, even though we are doing a much better job of it than they ever could.
    Pretty much.

    They start and fight two back to back world wars. After the second they high tail it home after oppressing and nearly enslaving the world for almost half a millennium. For about 40 years after that they had America's back because you know the Soviet Army was ready any day to roll right over them if it wasn't for American nuclear weapons and military might to stand against them. Then about 10 years after (when the threat appeared to be gone) that suddenly we in the United States are the evil Empire. I mean of course they are always there to look the other way. Allow troops, supplies, and intel to flow like a river to and from their nations in support of the United States but of course again we are the evil Empire. In fact the so called evil Empire wouldn't be able to fight or supply just about any of its wars if it wasn't for direct European assistant and backing.

    But remember everyone. They argue from a position of higher moral ground and understanding. Totally not involved unless of course it works out. Then they were standing tall along side you. If it goes bad then its America evil empire and they were totally against it all along (minus the military, money, and political trail but hey.. the press says so..).

  11. #171
    Where is my chicken! moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Yeah, there'd be a lot less angry terrorists without the US constantly stirring shit up.
    Yes there would. They would roam free and take over without any resistance.

    makes for a happier terrorists no?

  12. #172
    I've got no problem with Americas role in the world, ofcourse I'm in a position where it benefits me.

    I belive the people who benefits from American "rule", but is hates it, havent got any realistic better alternatives to present. It's obvious that Europe is destined for war if we're left to our own devices, it would only be a matter of time, "but now it's different" you say, yeah I'm sure Europeans have felt that way plenty of times before, noone saw WW1 coming, heck keeping conflicts down even with the US around is a challenge, look at ex yugoslavia and ukraine.

    I don't have any illusions that the US isnt doing it for it's own benefit, I honestly dont expect any country to commit as much to the world as the US does, without benefiting the most from it, and I'm, also aware that there's million of people who'll suffer under it. But then again, I don't have any illusions that we can all live in peace, harmony etc. etc. Ofcourse I'd want as many as possible to get on the "good life" boat, but there just isnt room for all, and my family benefit far more from a US run world, compared to a Chinese run world f.ex.


    And often the states are in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation, they've gotten alot of flack from some Danish politicians for not stopping Assad years ago, now that they do fire a few missiles, other politicians are whining about that. If I were an American, I honestly wouldnt bother too much with how people from other nations view them, there arent any perfect nations and in the end, most advanced countries have done equally worse things compared to the US imo.
    Last edited by Crispin; 2017-04-16 at 10:28 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguirrel View Post
    I have no delusions the US is a world savior, but it is de facto world police against crimes against humanity. No one else seems to want to take up the mantle.

    I hate that we get sucked into conflicts that we don't need to be. However, the world is becoming largely interconnected. Trade is up and people/ideas move around faster than ever. Conflicting views create tension and violence which needs to be quelled for peace. The US having the largest forces to do so and moral imperative to seek peace usually puts us inside situations when others refuse to act.
    lol

    US doesn't have moral imperative. We go around attacking sovereign nations before having any facts, invading nations under false pretenses, army rebels who turn into terrorists, killing civilians, embargoing nations for decades for not having the same form of government as us, etc.

    The US isn't the moral beacon of the world and we sure as fuck aren't the peace bringers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by De Lupe View Post
    I think "God Complex" would be more accurate.

    We've decided that we are to free the world from itself, one country at a time.

    If that isn't arrogance, I don't know what is.

    The US armed al-qaeda to fight against Russia. Then we invaded Iraq, toppled the government, and in the power vacuum ISIS popped up. ISIS then invaded northern Syria sparking the massive refugee crisis in Europe.

    Yeah, I'm sure we'd be worse of if we didn't do those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I've got no problem with Americas role in the world, ofcourse I'm in a position where it benefits me.

    I belive the people who benefits from American "rule", but is hates it, havent got any realistic better alternatives to present. It's obvious that Europe is destined for war if we're left to our own devices, it would only be a matter of time, "but now it's different" you say, yeah I'm sure Europeans have felt that way plenty of times before, noone saw WW1 coming, heck keeping conflicts down even with the US around is a challenge, look at ex yugoslavia and ukraine.

    I don't have any illusions that the US isnt doing it for it's own benefit, I honestly dont expect any country to commit as much to the world as the US does, without benefiting the most from it, and I'm, also aware that there's million of people who'll suffer under it. But then again, I don't have any illusions that we can all live in peace, harmony etc. etc. Ofcourse I'd want as many as possible to get on the "good life" boat, but there just isnt room for all, and my family benefit far more from a US run world, compared to a Chinese run world f.ex.


    And often the states are in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation, they've gotten alot of flack from some Danish politicians for not stopping Assad years ago, now that they do fire a few missiles, other politicians are whining about that. If I were an American, I honestly wouldnt bother too much with how people from other nations view them, there arent any perfect nations and in the end, most advanced countries have done equally worse things compared to the US imo.
    Um, pretty sure everyone saw WW1 coming. Tensions in Europe before the war were extremely high.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa Bannon View Post
    People in the U.S. are not only commonly quite stupid, they actually think they're smart instead. This fact actually answers most questions concerning the U.S.

    I mean, something like 26% of the eligible voters voted for a known con man over an uninteresting but completely status quo politico. That's not much of a choice, but why would anyone ever vote in the con artist?
    fixed that for you.

  15. #175
    Titan I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    unless you can explain to us where "legitimate enemy that actually fucking attacked us"?

    The only "attack" on American soil that I remember was 9/11
    You answered your own question.

    Al Qaeda attacked us and were harbored by/protected by the Taliban, the ruling government of Afghanistan at the time. We invoked Article 5 of NATO (an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us) and were joined by all members of NATO... As well as an almost equal number of non-NATO nations from all over the world, Balkans nations, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, even the notoriously neutral Switzerland contributed a couple dozen soldiers.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    lol

    US doesn't have moral imperative. We go around attacking sovereign nations before having any facts, invading nations under false pretenses, army rebels who turn into terrorists, killing civilians, embargoing nations for decades for not having the same form of government as us, etc.

    The US isn't the moral beacon of the world and we sure as fuck aren't the peace bringers.

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    The US armed al-qaeda to fight against Russia. Then we invaded Iraq, toppled the government, and in the power vacuum ISIS popped up. ISIS then invaded northern Syria sparking the massive refugee crisis in Europe.

    Yeah, I'm sure we'd be worse of if we didn't do those things.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Um, pretty sure everyone saw WW1 coming. Tensions in Europe before the war were extremely high.
    Uh, pretty sure everyone didnt.

    The war few wanted and few anticipated
    Five countries — failing in diplomacy and ignoring family ties — allowed military thinking, pride, miscommunication and duplicitous advisers lead them into the Great Conflict
    Last edited by Crispin; 2017-04-16 at 10:33 AM.

  17. #177
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Merely pointing out cause and effect.

    America and England destabilize the Middle East through wars, economic exploitation, propping up dictators and arming extremists. That leads to the forming of terrorist groups. The terrorist groups commit acts of terror in the West.

    Logical chain of events.
    Welcome to world history since the 4000 a.C.. Heck, even the cavemen kidnapped the other tribe's women just to survive and make their enemy to dissapear. Influence spheres and terrorism is part of the survival and domination human DNA.

    At least we reached an age that people actually care about human morality. The other side doesn't really care if you put your head in the sand and ignore the issues.

  18. #178
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, Europe fucked it up. But that was by design. See, it's not that Europe wanted to pull back from those colonies. Europe pulled back because the colonies told Europe in no uncertain terms that they'd like to rule themselves because supposedly they'd be doing a better job at governing themselves. Why is Europe sitting back you ask? Well, we're sitting back going "Yeah, we can see how you're governing yourself in a manner that helps your people... I'm not looking at you Palestine, totally not looking at you most of Africa."
    This sounds bold from someone whose country just 30 years ago was ripped in half, with one part being protected by American forces, and another occupied by Soviets. You totally showed all those colonies how it's done!
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
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  19. #179
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    So pretty much, Europeans realized colonialism was ending, but just as one last fuck you to all the native peoples who dared to resist your rule you poisoned the well on the way out and laughed as these countries inevitably struggled to deal with the problems you created, just so you could sit back and delude yourselves into thinking that imperialism was somehow a good thing. And then we the big retarded USA stumbles in trying to set everything right in our typical brute force, inelegant way, you just thumb your noses at us as if this wasn't your fault all along.
    It was the US that forced a fast decolonization. The European empires actually wanted to do it slowly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Girrag View Post
    USA is nothing but a world tyrant. They're trying to enforce their way of life on everybody else by force.
    Yes, it's so bad to have freedom to write on the Internet (US invention) about how bad the 'Muricans are. Fuck, I'm not American, and I do think that they have several problems within their own nation, but I'm not hypocrite like the majority of the Western that yell how "evil" the US is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    I've got no problem with Americas role in the world, ofcourse I'm in a position where it benefits me.

    I belive the people who benefits from American "rule", but is hates it, havent got any realistic better alternatives to present. It's obvious that Europe is destined for war if we're left to our own devices, it would only be a matter of time, "but now it's different" you say, yeah I'm sure Europeans have felt that way plenty of times before, noone saw WW1 coming, heck keeping conflicts down even with the US around is a challenge, look at ex yugoslavia and ukraine.
    I understand your point, but every single person alive at the time knew that the World War One was bound to happen, sooner or later. European nations were on an arms race since the late 1800s.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They didn't wanted to happen, that's different from not knowing that it could happen.

  20. #180
    Where would we be without 20th Century US foreign policy? Probably in about the same place minus a few pointless military quagmires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    America gets this negative attitude when it comes to how we behave in the world. We are called the world police and are criticized for it; however, exactly where would we be without America? American hemogony is very likely what leads to our current times of less wars, and little major global conflict (compared to the past) we aren't without issues in the world but without us, and if we weren't so involved in the world where exactly would the rest of the world be?
    America benefits from this period of peace, it did not create it. The collapse of all the other superpowers did.
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