United States of America - World Police or World Saviour

[Slant]

I have a strong bias towards non-interventionism and would broadly agree with that position. Syrians killing each other does not break my leg or pick my pocket - the only extent to which I care about these wars is the extent to which they impact American interests.

That said, my claim isn't that we're any good at intervening usefully in these internecine conflicts (we're usually not), it's that these conflicts have been simmering for millennia.

Oh, I agree. These are old, old feuds. In Europe we duked them out frequently and merrily, every couple decades. We have learned from that, however. The reason the EU exists? This monumentally innovative and ambitious project? Because everyone here realised that the other way didn't work out too well. But we had to go through 2000 years of warfare until even the last idiot realised that it's not gonna work out.

The Middle East hasn't had that epiphany. They need to have it, from within. We cannot teach them that, as everything from the outside is automatically tainted by now. You can teach them democracy, language, culture, science but it's all tainted and they will revert back to their own cultural violence or worse, reject anything you taught them.

That's why non-interventionism is the only way in the long run, I think.

[Xires]

It's kind of weird to see people talking shit from a position of abject weakness.

Its what haters do....lots of Europeans are haters of America...until the Russians come....then they ask us to send in thousands more troops to protect them and make them feel safe because they aren't capable of protecting themselves. We even had to send a LARGE shipment of ammunition to supply the European forces because they don't ave the military resources. Europe's military's right now are severely underfunded and under strength.

[Skroe]

Don't kid yourself, you're an empire, and you're already creaking at the edges from decadence and the inequality that leaves increased numbers of your populace disenfranchised.

And while seeing the US gone from Earth and choking on toxic Martian dust is something I don't mind, I don't see you lasting long enough for that.

If we were truly an empire, you wouldn't be here writing this nonsense.

The US built something better: an assent based stakeholder association with itself at the center. It's self perpetuating.

And these "creaks" by the way. They're nothing new. Americans have heard that song and dance since the 1950s. In fact, the 1950s were probably the worst decade for American security in our history. And look what happened.

So don't hold your breath, friend

[Independent voter]

Haven't been around lately, have you?

There's no world war. We have small wars isolated in countries that we have little control over. If you don't like our policing, why don't you try to lend a hand instead of complaining about the job we're doing?

WWII saw 63 million dead, our goal is to stop WWIII and we've done that.

[Elba]

I made this quite clear to you my last post: losing wars has consequences. And you lost. Badly.

Due to the British Empire, then Pax Americana, English is the lingua franca. Not German. American culture has spread infectiously for decades. These are not accident's. It's because Germany lost the largest war in the history of man, the British Empire killed itself, and and the Soviet Union was strategically and patiently slain.

You're basically lamenting your fore-bearers fighting and losing. What's German for "You had your chance, and you blew it?".

The insanity of this of course is that the European Union is so mindboggling important, that if you realized what it could be, you'd drop your inane little whinefest about Germany's lost imperium. Spoilers: you got something way, way better.

There was a time when this whole quadrant belonged to us! What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories. Living off memories and stories, and selling trinkets. My god, man! We've become a tourist attraction. "See the great Centauri Republic - open 9 to 5 - Earth time."

Can't I be bitter about the death of my race? Under my ancestor's spears mighty Rome fell. I lament my people.

[Deleted]

Then we'll work harder, until you are gone, or isolated. Every empire falls, as will yours.

hahah you will be dead by the time america falls buddy, time to get off that weed your smoking, america culture is here to stay, everyone knows people in the EU are american wannabes, you dress and try act like them but fail patheticaly.

i hope america who controls global web blocks ur worthless arse so then you can beg americans for forgiveness, btw where you from?? so i can drive to your shit hole country and wave the american flag around and stick it up ur arse.

infracted - trolling

[Ghostpanther]

There's no world war. We have small wars isolated in countries that we have little control over. If you don't like our policing, why don't you try to lend a hand instead of complaining about the job we're doing?

WWII saw 63 million dead, our goal is to stop WWIII and we've done that.

Well said Hubcap!!

[Slant]

Yes and this is a problem. That we are having this conversation in English is a problem. That American cultural influence completely supplanted our own cultures is a problem.

And that people like Slant make themselves house slaves and welcome American cultural enrichment and the destruction of our own civilization is the biggest problem of all.

And we can't do anything about it. Because you completely crippled our ability to fight back. At least the Middle East is doing something. At least they are not going quietly into the night.

All cultures are dying. The difference is ours does so happily. Fuck. Fuck.

The fun thing about culture? It has a nature of its own and doesn't give jack shit about your opinion. It's a community experience and it evolves. Culture is probably the most democratic thing we have on the planet. And culture never dies, it's invincible. "Culture" started before any political system was created, in some caves when people didn't even have written language. It continued to thrive through any catastrophe humanity suffered from, regardless of the political system, and it will continue to gloriously represent humanity at its best and worst when all political systems die out.

So.. why am I writing this? Because it's the closest I can do to possibly bring close to you just how fucking wrong you are. :P

Btw, while you're saying I'm a slave, I'm having a side conversation with an American who also agrees that US intervention is not the best way to go. See, that's a serious discussion about actual global politics. And here's me trying to drag you up to a level of conversation that can't be described as "basic schooling on history". This isn't a history thread, perhaps you'd like to go and make your own thread where you can bitch about the US fucking your city up 70 years ago? Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah not this time. Especially not with commercial space. Really important things have happened in the past two years. The situation has deeply changed.

Just make sure you don't send teachers up there. And if you do, please, for all that's holy to you, don't televise it to literally every classroom.

[Deleted]

Can't I be bitter about the death of my race? Under my ancestor's spears mighty Rome fell. I lament my people.

Rome fell on their own spears.

Seriously, throw way your 19th history books.

[Cyi]

Im a proud American, no shame in that. This world would be fucked without us and that is not meant as some sort of chest thumping comment. People can knock us, they can hate us and they can even want us to go away, but at the end of the day, we are needed. Many Americans have died protecting the freedoms and lives of people that hate us.

[Xires]

Oh, I agree. These are old, old feuds. In Europe we duked them out frequently and merrily, every couple decades. We have learned from that, however. The reason the EU exists? This monumentally innovative and ambitious project? Because everyone here realised that the other way didn't work out too well. But we had to go through 2000 years of warfare until even the last idiot realised that it's not gonna work out.

The Middle East hasn't had that epiphany. They need to have it, from within. We cannot teach them that, as everything from the outside is automatically tainted by now. You can teach them democracy, language, culture, science but it's all tainted and they will revert back to their own cultural violence or worse, reject anything you taught them.

That's why non-interventionism is the only way in the long run, I think.

Not true. You tried the "League of Nations" and it failed miserably. It failed because the US wasn't involved because the US population wanted to return to isolationism. Then after not learning from WW1 you started WW2 and then once again the US was dragged into another European conflict AND another major war on the other side of the world with the Japanese. The only reason the UN even exists today is because of the US. Without it it would of died out long ago because it would not have the military strength to back itself up or even the funds to be relevant.

The only thing that was "learned" was that in order to prevent another world war- the US can not return to isolationism. Those days are gone. We have seen what happens in the middle east when the US adopts a policy like that of Obama. All our gains in the 2000's are gone simply because we left to early and let a terrorist organization thrive and go unabated too long. Now it is alive and well in over 33 countries and terrorist attacks in Europe are now common place.

The left and bureaucrats that claimed that we need to import the 3rd world to save ourselves brought you that. Make peace with that- because it is only going to get worse.

[Zecora]

It's kind of weird to see people talking shit from a position of abject weakness.

I doubt you understand what actual strength is.

Yes, we have and no..their has not been a world war since WW2. You're not very bright if you believe other wise because WW3 will make WW2 look like a tea party.

There isn't a huge enough /facepalm...

You and Hubcap seems to think that a country can't wreak havoc without there being a world war. That's on you.


Anyhow, I value food more than watching this thread's circle-jerk about your fantasy version of the US. If anyone should want my feeling about the US and whether it is "World Saviour" or "World Police" (the actual topic), I'll refer you to my original post.

[Skroe]

Its what haters do....lots of Europeans are haters of America...until the Russians come....then they ask us to send in thousands more troops to protect them and make them feel safe because they aren't capable of protecting themselves. We even had to send a LARGE shipment of ammunition to supply the European forces because they don't ave the military resources. Europe's military's right now are severely underfunded and under strength.

Let's be very clear about something, because this is a half truth.

Sending all that stuff? It was sent because Barack Obama, in his infinite wisdom *snicker* spent most of the period from 2011-2014 pulling all that stuff out of Europe in preparation for what would have likely been a full scale US withdrawal from Europe under Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

And then Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

It was only in 2016, when reality told Obama it, yet again, didn't give a crap about what he wanted in life, that he decided to drop the sham and approve returning forces and equipment to Europe, something the Pentagon had been screaming to do for two years.

Even this "return" still has US forces at a fraction their power in Europe a decade and a half ago.

[Slant]

Its what haters do....lots of Europeans are haters of America...until the Russians come....then they ask us to send in thousands more troops to protect them and make them feel safe because they aren't capable of protecting themselves. We even had to send a LARGE shipment of ammunition to supply the European forces because they don't ave the military resources. Europe's military's right now are severely underfunded and under strength.

This is wrong.

[Xires]

Can't I be bitter about the death of my race? Under my ancestor's spears mighty Rome fell. I lament my people.

What is your race?

[Spectral]

I doubt you understand what actual strength is.

I'm confident that it's not empty bluster about how someday you'll totally watch the United States crumble.

But why don't you tell me what you think actual strength is?

[Deleted]

The mess in Iran started with the Islamic revolution in 1979, and in Afghanistan with the Soviet invasion also in 1979, before the US started training any religious zealots.

Of course. The coup against the elected prime minister in 1953 was totally kosher like.

[Skroe]

Can't I be bitter about the death of my race? Under my ancestor's spears mighty Rome fell. I lament my people.

Almost certainly not your ancestors. Don't under-estimate ethnic churn in Europe over the past 1500 years. You're all mutts. We're all mutts.

[Xires]

This is wrong.

I wish I could believe you but if these forums and social media are any inclination- the US and Europe are about || <----that close to needing a divorce.

[Slant]

Not true. You tried the "League of Nations" and it failed miserably. It failed because the US wasn't involved because the US population wanted to return to isolationism. Then after not learning from WW1 you started WW2 and then once again the US was dragged into another European conflict AND another major war on the other side of the world with the Japanese. The only reason the UN even exists today is because of the US. Without it it would of died out long ago because it would not have the military strength to back itself up or even the funds to be relevant.

The only thing that was "learned" was that in order to prevent another world war- the US can not return to isolationism. Those days are gone. We have seen what happens in the middle east when the US adopts a policy like that of Obama. All our gains in the 2000's are gone simply because we left to early and let a terrorist organization thrive and go unabated too long. Now it is alive and well in over 33 countries and terrorist attacks in Europe are now common place.

The left and bureaucrats that claimed that we need to import the 3rd world to save ourselves brought you that. Make peace with that- because it is only going to get worse.

Dude, you need to read properly if you want to discuss with me. I never once mentioned the UN.