United States of America - World Police or World Saviour

[breadisfunny]

What did I just read...

go read up on iran in the 70's under the shah. it had a flourishing western economy.

[Xires]

Let's be very clear about something, because this is a half truth.

Sending all that stuff? It was sent because Barack Obama, in his infinite wisdom *snicker* spent most of the period from 2011-2014 pulling all that stuff out of Europe in preparation for what would have likely been a full scale US withdrawal from Europe under Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

And then Russia invaded Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

It was only in 2016, when reality told Obama it, yet again, didn't give a crap about what he wanted in life, that he decided to drop the sham and approve returning forces and equipment to Europe, something the Pentagon had been screaming to do for two years.

Even this "return" still has US forces at a fraction their power in Europe a decade and a half ago.

Oh, I know all about the US withdrawing forces from Europe. Under Obama we had actually pulled the last of our battletanks out of Europe only shortly after to have the Russians move in on Crimea. Then the Europeans were begging for us to return those force. Anything about touched when it came to foreign policy...literally fell apart. The man actually thought that removing our presence from the world stage would usher in peace...then reality hit Obama...atleast just a little bit.

I still remember an Obama official on national television saying "The way to defeat groups like ISIS is more jobs". One lefty recently said "Love would win".
Reality- not a thing the left seems to focus on. Only well-wishes and "good feelings". That thinking has turned the world upside down including the US when it comes to race and politics. The amount of racial regression that the left has caused with identity politics is just short of a civil war where friends and family wont even talk to each other over it. Thanks Obama.

[Slant]

I wish I could believe you but if these forums and social media are any inclination- the US and Europe are about || <----that close to needing a divorce.

This forum polarises because we like to give each other shit, but I can't repeat my family analogy often enough... I'll fuck with my brother all day long, but if an outsider attacks him, he'll have to go through me first.

Reverse the situation. Russia launches a surprise attack over the Bering Sea (that is the surprise, get it? haha)... how long do you think until Europe joins the fight and Russia has an actual two front war on their own home turf? No man, Europeans may bitch and whinge about the US, but we're in peace, we're bored and we have nothing better to do. Make life interesting by a literal global war and suddenly perspective becomes very simple and you wouldn't believe how violent the reaction of Europe can be if you give them a clear "this is us and those are them... they attacked us, go fuck them up."

There's one thing people forget, Europe has 2000 years of warfare under their belt. If anyone knows how to war, it's Europe. Don't mistake the sleeping wolf for a sheep. Especially not when you attack another wolf of the same pack.

[Independent voter]

go read up on iran in the 70's under the shah. it had a flourishing western economy.

*sigh* 1958 the Iranian government was going to go communist, the business people of Iran and the religious people asked the US to stop Iran from going over to the Soviets and we were happy to help. Like less than a 100 people died in the coup, no Iranian cared about the Iranian government at the time. The Shah wasn't our idea.

But yes! The people who control Iran now, the religious nutts are from the same group that asked the US to intervene in 1958.

[Slant]

What is your race?

Apparently, it's the one true masterrace. It's been dead for 70 years, but nobody told him. Don't burst his bubble, he'll cry all day long. :P

[Deleted]

*sigh* 1958 the Iranian government was going to go communist, the business people of Iran and the religious people asked the US to stop Iran from going over to the Soviets and we were happy to help. Like less than a 100 people died in the coup, no Iranian cared about the Iranian government at the time. The Shah wasn't our idea.

But yes! The people who control Iran now, the religious nutts are from the same group that asked the US to intervene in 1958.

Where did you read that shit?

[Xires]

I doubt you understand what actual strength is.



There isn't a huge enough /facepalm...

You and Hubcap seems to think that a country can't wreak havoc without there being a world war. That's on you.


Anyhow, I value food more than watching this thread's circle-jerk about your fantasy version of the US. If anyone should want my feeling about the US and whether it is "World Saviour" or "World Police" (the actual topic), I'll refer you to my original post.

Except that the US hasn't "wrecked havoc". It fell apart when Obama had the US removed from Iraq because he wanted to make good on his campaign promise to "end the war in Iraq" and it left a power vacuum. We had pulled out the last of our heavy armor in Europe because the Obama admin was in a policy of withdrawal and that is when the Russian invaded Crimea and right after that the US has its tanks and thousands more troops in Europe. Why? Because reality. If the US withdrawls fro mthe world stage....shit will go south real quick and if you deny that- then you yourself have a lot of research and reading to do. Enjoy.

[breadisfunny]

Neither, we butt into global conflicts in order to secure economic resources. War in and of itself is a profit machine.

we need to bring back the non profiteering laws of ww2.

[Deleted]

Except that the US hasn't "wrecked havoc". It fell apart when Obama had the US removed from Iraq because he wanted to make good on his campaign promise to "end the war in Iraq" and it left a power vacuum. We had pulled out the last of our heavy armor in Europe because the Obama admin was in a policy of withdrawal and that is when the Russian invaded Crimea and right after that the US has its tanks and thousands more troops in Europe. Why? Because reality. If the US withdrawls fro mthe world stage....shit will go south real quick and if you deny that- then you yourself have a lot of research and reading to do. Enjoy.

Or you could have.. like..... Not invaded in the first place? Lol

[Elba]

What country are you from, Slant?

[Harbour]

American hemogony is very likely what leads to our current times of less wars, and little major global conflict (compared to the past) we aren't without issues in the world but without us, and if we weren't so involved in the world where exactly would the rest of the world be?

USA monopolized the war. Is it needed to be said that USA is the one of a few countries that start the wars in the last 50 years?

[Skroe]

Oh, I know all about the US withdrawing forces from Europe. Under Obama we had actually pulled the last of our battletanks out of Europe only shortly after to have the Russians move in on Crimea. Then the Europeans were begging for us to return those force. Anything about touched when it came to foreign policy...literally fell apart. The man actually thought that removing our presence from the world stage would usher in peace...then reality hit Obama...atleast just a little bit.

Yeah the Obama era was certainly a living experiment in the fallacy of disengagement. Among much bullshit, it put that to bed for good I think, among most reasonable people I think. Of course America has a foot print in everything it does. But's is more dificult than ever to argue that no foot print is more desirable than there being one.

I still remember an Obama official on national television saying "The way to defeat groups like ISIS is more jobs".

That's an inartful way of saying something basically true. A key cause of terrorism in the middle East has been the lack of economic opportunity. How is this not surprising? Enormous unemployed. Bored, young men coming from famlies of 7 kids. Exposed to a barrage of propaganda that assigns their ills not the regime that suffocates their opportunities, but to the West.

Killing as many terrorists as possible is step one. Step two is making sure that there isn't another generation of them. And that does mean making sure that would-be terrorists, stay home, get a good job, start a good family, and lead normal lives. Everybody gets angry by the news sometime in their life. But give them a reason *Not* to run off and join Jihad.

One lefty recently said "Love would win".
Reality- not a thing the left seems to focus on. Only well-wishes and "good feelings". That thinking has turned the world upside down including the US when it comes to race and politics. The amount of racial regression that the left has caused with identity politics is just short of a civil war where friends and family wont even talk to each other over it. Thanks Obama.

Oh jesus christ, not this shit. "racial regression that the left has caused with identity politics is just short of a civil war "

Like... the fuck? You actually THINK this? good grief.

[Spectral]

I wish I could believe you but if these forums and social media are any inclination- the US and Europe are about || <----that close to needing a divorce.

I don't know for sure about anything, but anecdotally I've enjoyed my trips to Europe and most people don't seem to have the level of personal animosity that you'd glean from some of the whiny shit you see on this board. In person, most people are just people. Europeans in the United States are likewise not facing a whole lot of hatred...

[Xires]

This forum polarises because we like to give each other shit, but I can't repeat my family analogy often enough... I'll fuck with my brother all day long, but if an outsider attacks him, he'll have to go through me first.

Reverse the situation. Russia launches a surprise attack over the Bering Sea (that is the surprise, get it? haha)... how long do you think until Europe joins the fight and Russia has an actual two front war on their own home turf? No man, Europeans may bitch and whinge about the US, but we're in peace, we're bored and we have nothing better to do. Make life interesting by a literal global war and suddenly perspective becomes very simple and you wouldn't believe how violent the reaction of Europe can be if you give them a clear "this is us and those are them... they attacked us, go fuck them up."

There's one thing people forget, Europe has 2000 years of warfare under their belt. If anyone knows how to war, it's Europe. Don't mistake the sleeping wolf for a sheep. Especially not when you attack another wolf of the same pack.

Agreed on some points. Not all Europeans are wolves...atleast not anymore. (looking at France, the Dutch, Norway, Finland, etc....)
Europeans and the left here in the US seem more interested in not offending our enemies rather then just killing them or atleast containing them.
Europeans are pushing for the US to take in more people from the 3rd world despite the fact that western culture and arab culture do NOT mix...and I have history both past and present to prove that.
Seems like Europeans are more interested in "looking good" and trying to "atone" for their ancestors sins then using common sense and defending themselves.
The ones who have seemed to push against that are the British and over here in America. More Europeans need to wake up to the cultural suicide that their government is sending them towards because of "feelings".

[breadisfunny]

US involvement in WW1 and WW2 was in the best interest of the world. I wish we would spend more on ourselves and less on other countries.

The u.s. both times was isolationist. u.s. didn't get involved in ww1 until early 1917 when Germany restarted their unrestricted submarine warfare. by which time the war had started turning against the central powers already for the most part even though Russia was out. By the time we actually got troops there in numbers big enough it was early 1918 and the war was getting desperate for Germany as they were getting low on combat ready men. In ww2 we were even more isolationist and mostly ignored France and Great Britian's pleas until japan attacked us and Germany declared war as well. if we really had cared we would have gotten involved in 1936 when hitler reentered the rhineland or 1938 when he started "invading" and annexing countries or 1939 when he attacked Poland. but nope we ignored everything until that fateful day in 1941. At which point hitler had Russia and Great Britian on the ropes and had completely overrun europe and was on the verge on overrunning north Africa.

[Skroe]

I wish I could believe you but if these forums and social media are any inclination- the US and Europe are about || <----that close to needing a divorce.

Ridiculous. And not at all indicative of reality.

America and Europe are family. We're not married. We're siblings. The love-hate thing goes back to our founding. There is absolutely nothing new about it.

No one pisses anybody off, quite like their family. But nobody loves them more either. America without Europe is unimaginably diminished, and vice versa. We need each other. We complete each other.

[Xires]

I don't know for sure about anything, but anecdotally I've enjoyed my trips to Europe and most people don't seem to have the level of personal animosity that you'd glean from some of the whiny shit you see on this board. In person, most people are just people. Europeans in the United States are likewise not facing a whole lot of hatred...

Yeah, I don't hate Europeans...but I sure do worry about them. I'm worried that our allies are choking themselves out with cultural suicide...which in the future could leave us enemies instead of friends.

[Themius]

USA monopolized the war. Is it needed to be said that USA is the one of a few countries that start the wars in the last 50 years?

We haven't really started any wars besides the war with Iraq.

We just intervene in conflicts

[Xires]

Ridiculous. And not at all indicative of reality.

America and Europe are family. We're not married. We're siblings. The love-hate thing goes back to our founding. There is absolutely nothing new about it.

No one pisses anybody off, quite like their family. But nobody loves them more either. America without Europe is unimaginably diminished, and vice versa. We need each other. We complete each other.

They need us a lot more then we need them but you have some good points.

[Acidbaron]

I don't know for sure about anything, but anecdotally I've enjoyed my trips to Europe and most people don't seem to have the level of personal animosity that you'd glean from some of the whiny shit you see on this board. In person, most people are just people. Europeans in the United States are likewise not facing a whole lot of hatred...

You seem to be completely alien to the idea that we can have criticism to a nations politics and not take it out on the people of that country. Perhaps the inheritance of allowing politics to sink to the level mudslinging and attack adds you obtained there;