United States of America - World Police or World Saviour

[Ghostpanther]

the u.s. both times was isolationist. u.s. didn't get involved in ww1 until germany restarted their unrestricted submarine warfare. by which time the war had started turning against the central powers already for the most part even though russia was out. in ww2 we were even more isolationist and ignored france and britians pleas until japan attacked us and germany declared war as well. if we really had cared we would have gotten involved in 1936 when hitler reentered the rhineland or 1938 when he started "invading" and annexing countries or 1939 when he attacked poland. but nope we ignored everything until that fateful day in 1941. by which point hitler had russia and britian on the ropes and had completely overrun europe and was on the verge on overrunning north africa.

Yeah. We try to avoid war if possible. That is a good thing. But the reality is, we did come to the rescue in both cases.

[Skroe]

Agreed on some points. Not all Europeans are wolves...atleast not anymore. (looking at France, the Dutch, Norway, Finland, etc....)
Europeans and the left here in the US seem more interested in not offending our enemies rather then just killing them or atleast containing them.
Europeans are pushing for the US to take in more people from the 3rd world despite the fact that western culture and arab culture do NOT mix...and I have history both past and present to prove that.
Seems like Europeans are more interested in "looking good" and trying to "atone" for their ancestors sins then using common sense and defending themselves.
The ones who have seemed to push against that are the British and over here in America. More Europeans need to wake up to the cultural suicide that their government is sending them towards because of "feelings".

You're far too tied down in momentary political disputes to see the larger picture.

Let me change your perspective.

Europeans have spent most of the past 16 years fighting in Afghanistan - in our war - and paid a very high price for it. Was there sometimes complications? Absolutely. But they held up their end of the bargain. They came to _our_ aid and by all accounts found excellently. Europe's fighting forces are the most proficient in the world, only after the United States'. They have the most combat experience. They have the best equipment (sometimes superior to our own). They are not to be underestimated.

Just keep this in mind: the US doesn't really have to send many of it's F-22s to guard Europe, because European Airspace is guarded by over 400 of the second best fighter in the world, the Eurofighter Typhoon.

Europe has it's security issues. But so do we. Europe's capability is, by design, not meant to be comparable to ours. But in other ways it is better. That you don't know the difference doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Slant]

Seems like Europeans are more interested in "looking good" and trying to "atone" for their ancestors sins then using common sense and defending themselves.

What Europe mostly wants to do is the pragmatic shit that gets things done rather than dick around. The EU seems like a slowly lumbering giant to many people, but they're super busy doing the basic shit that nobody cares about until they realise that wow... 90% of customs law comes from Brussels these days. Amazingly it works like a charm!

Looking good? Not really. The whole deal with Greece didn't make us look good at all. Some idiots still claim the EU has blackmailed Greece. I'd like to call it strongarming rather than blackmailing, but it certainly didn't look good. But it worked. And it's working until now. Greece is calming down, economical indicators are pointing upwards and now all the EU has to do is wait until Greece has sorted itself out. Do you see anyone gloating over how the EU was right? No, you don't. Because the EU doesn't give two shits about publicity. I'd wish they'd do a bit more PR as you claim, because many people don't realise how good the EU can be if everyone gets onboard.

And this has nothing to do with "atoning" for anything. Not even Germany is in that mental state anymore. Certainly not the majority of the countries in Europe, who were victims of German military during both world wars.

And Europe doesn't need to defend itself at the moment. Against whom? Nobody is attacking us. Refugees? Do you suggest we should defend ourselves against largely unarmed men and women and children? Don't be ridiculous.

[Themius]

What Europe mostly wants to do is the pragmatic shit that gets things done rather than dick around. The EU seems like a slowly lumbering giant to many people, but they're super busy doing the basic shit that nobody cares about until they realise that wow... 90% of customs law comes from Brussels these days. Amazingly it works like a charm!

Looking good? Not really. The whole deal with Greece didn't make us look good at all. Some idiots still claim the EU has blackmailed Greece. I'd like to call it strongarming rather than blackmailing, but it certainly didn't look good. But it worked. And it's working until now. Greece is calming down, economical indicators are pointing upwards and now all the EU has to do is wait until Greece has sorted itself out. Do you see anyone gloating over how the EU was right? No, you don't. Because the EU doesn't give two shits about publicity. I'd wish they'd do a bit more PR as you claim, because many people don't realise how good the EU can be if everyone gets onboard.

And this has nothing to do with "atoning" for anything. Not even Germany is in that mental state anymore. Certainly not the majority of the countries in Europe, who were victims of German military during both world wars.

And Europe doesn't need to defend itself at the moment. Against whom? Nobody is attacking us. Refugees? Do you suggest we should defend ourselves against largely unarmed men and women and children? Don't be ridiculous.

Of course no one is attacking... it's kind of a death sentence for any country that does as we will be dragged into the war.

[breadisfunny]

They got involved in our shit. They stopped us from retaking what was ours.

is...is that you adolf? i thought you were dead. look i know your mad you lost world war ii but it's time to move on.

[Skroe]

They need us a lot more then we need them but you have some good points.

No. They don't. They truly do not.

Let me put this in perspective for you.

China's ambition to displace us in the world is the New Silk Road, which will create an economic conduit that will stretch from Eastern China, through Central Asia, into Europe. The idea being that within several decades, China will supplant the US as Europe's largest trading partner. And with that will come political and strategic allegiance.

It's a smart strategy. And if we don't stop it, it will succeed. And objectively, it absolutely should. _We_ are the outsiders here. We are the weirdos living on the continent isolated by two oceans. The bulk of the human race lives in Asia, and an economic flow of goods and services that stretches across all of Eurasia makes an enormous amount of sense.

But it also comes ENTIRELY at our expense. Make no mistake: should the New Silk Road come into fruition, there will be an American President in the future who will be the one who "lost Europe".

Do you know what it would take to get back? Generations. I can't even imagine. The entire economic rationale would have to be quickly inverted. Central Asia would have to go to hell.

So don't take them for granted. We've never been the only game in town. Not 50 years ago and not today. Europe chose us. They deserve to be treated with the upmost respect and fairness. Even... ESPECIALLY when we disagree, they should be treated with respect and heard out. Otherwise one day, we won't leave them. They'l leave us. All we have is South America. They have the other 70% of the human race.

Never forget: Until World War I, the United States was regarded as mostly a backwater by "the World", which was centered in Europe.

[breadisfunny]

Yeah. We try to avoid war if possible. That is a good thing. But the reality is, we did come to the rescue in both cases.

my point is the u.s. population and by proxy their leaders didn't give a shit about the other countries until it was attacked. the whole mantra at that time was that it was "europe's problem".

[Themius]

is...is that you adolf? i thought you were dead. look i know your mad you lost world war ii but it's time to move on.

I somehow missed that... what the fuck lol....

[breadisfunny]

There's no world war. We have small wars isolated in countries that we have little control over. If you don't like our policing, why don't you try to lend a hand instead of complaining about the job we're doing?

WWII saw around 72 million dead, our goal is to stop WWIII and we've done that.

correction there. they are finding new mass graves every so often.

[Deleted]

The only deterrant for a world war are nuclear weapons.

The US practically "forced" most european nations to not building nuclear weapons. If not for that all western nations would easily have the technology to build and maintain them. (Nuclear or even fusion bombs are not actually difficult to build with todays knowledge if you get your hands on the necessary materials.)

It is in the US best interest to prevent most (even allied) nations from building nuclear ICBMs.

Whoever thinks that a US government ever did anything that wasn't in their own best interest is a moron. Look into the history of iraq and iran. Oil, oil, oil for more than 60 years now. Nothing ever good came out of the "policing" and it was never about democracy or human rights but just to secure the US position on top of the food chain.

I suggest you look into your own history and the facts that are listed in official US documents about all the wars that the US was involved in after WWII. They have been public for many years now. So all the arguments of how the US wanted to help in the middle east, Asia or South America in the past decades is ridiculous misinformation.

[Themius]

The only deterrant for a world war are nuclear weapons.

The US practically "forced" most european nations to not building nuclear weapons. If not for that all western nations would easily have the technology to build and maintain them. (Nuclear or even fusion bombs are not actually difficult to build with todays knowledge if you get your hands on the necessary materials.)

It is in the US best interest to prevent most (even allied) nations from building nuclear ICBMs.

Whoever thinks that a US government ever did anything that wasn't in their own best interest is a moron. Look into the history of iraq and iran. Oil, oil, oil for more than 60 years now. Nothing ever good came out of the "policing" and it was never about democracy or human rights but just to secure the US position on top of the food chain.

Oil... what about oil? We didn't profit... we didn't take their oil to pay for the ridiculous cost of the waar, what the fuck are you talking about.

[Tico]

America's actions in the world are purely guided by interests, not guidelines or ideas. I think that answers the question.

[breadisfunny]

The only deterrant for a world war are nuclear weapons.

The US practically "forced" most european nations to not building nuclear weapons. If not for that all western nations would easily have the technology to build and maintain them. (Nuclear or even fusion bombs are not actually difficult to build with todays knowledge if you get your hands on the necessary materials.)

It is in the US best interest to prevent most (even allied) nations from building nuclear ICBMs.

Whoever thinks that a US government ever did anything that wasn't in their own best interest is a moron. Look into the history of iraq and iran. Oil, oil, oil for more than 60 years now. Nothing ever good came out of the "policing" and it was never about democracy or human rights but just to secure the US position on top of the food chain.

oh yes that will solve war. let's repeat the insanity of the arms race of the 60's 70's and 80's. i agree we need to bring the number of nukes back up to 70,000+ because it's not enough that we have the ability to turn this planet into a miniature sun we need to have the ability to quickly terraform it into the planet of venus or mercury.

[Theodarzna]

There is something that really bugs me when it comes to the way the USA is viewed by many foreigners, and some people in our country as well.

America gets this negative attitude when it comes to how we behave in the world. We are called the world police and are criticized for it; however, exactly where would we be without America? American hemogony is very likely what leads to our current times of less wars, and little major global conflict (compared to the past) we aren't without issues in the world but without us, and if we weren't so involved in the world where exactly would the rest of the world be?

We are the world's greatest deterrant being that we are the world's wealthiest nation and the world's most powerful nation and the world's only superpower.

When the issues with Libya began we didn't immediately act and were urged to by Europe, where many of the countries were previously complaining of our "world police" like behaviour.

Frankly America is the healer, extremely important, under appreciated when doing their job well, vilified when things go wrong.

America is the current great Empire, successor to the British. Destined one day to go where all Empires go.

[Deleted]

Oil... what about oil? We didn't profit... we didn't take their oil to pay for the ridiculous cost of the waar, what the fuck are you talking about.

Ok so the US backing the Shah of Iran had nothing at all to do with oil. Good argument.
And after Iran flipped the US backing Hussain had nothing to do with oil. Good argument.
Then the US flipping on Hussain had nothing to do with oil. Good argument.

It was all about democracy and helping the people in Iraq and Iran. Do you literally know nothing about the conflict?

[kamuimac]

We haven't really started any wars besides the war with Iraq.

We just intervene in conflicts

Iraq
Afganistan
Libia
Syria

1 war for every 5 years

but its expected for US with their completly shit educational system to not have any clue .

[Macaquerie]

Never forget: Until World War I, the United States was regarded as mostly a backwater by "the World", which was centered in Europe.

Since the beginning, Americans have always looked to Europe for approval and, precisely because of this, we'll never really get any real respect from them, regardless of our military or economic power. Besides, there's no need for us to compete with China for Europe's affections, because European arrogance and condescension toward non-Western countries is even worse than what we get from them.

[GennGreymane]

Here is a list of all the wars the US has been involved in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

[Independent voter]

Since the beginning, Americans have always looked to Europe for approval and, precisely because of this, we'll never really get any real respect from them, regardless of our military or economic power. Besides, there's no need for us to compete with China for Europe's affections, because European arrogance and condescension toward non-Western countries is even worse than what we get from them.

What an odd thing to say. What gives you that idea?

There was this comedian who had a gag that Britain just wants to be loved by France, is this what you're saying?

If there is one word that sums up the American experience when it comes to foreigners is "isolationist".

[Themius]

Ok so the US backing the Shah of Iran had nothing at all to do with oil. Good argument.
And after Iran flipped the US backing Hussain had nothing to do with oil. Good argument.
Then the US flipping on Hussain had nothing to do with oil. Good argument.

It was all about democracy and helping the people in Iraq and Iran. Do you literally know nothing about the conflict?

Is there a reason you're completely ignoring the UKs part in Iran?

- - - Updated - - -

Iraq
Afganistan
Libia
Syria

1 war for every 5 years

but its expected for US with their completly shit educational system to not have any clue .

Libya... you mean where we tried to to stay out of it but Europe urged us to do something about it? Since they were important when it came to European oil access.

Syria...you mean another war we are being urged to join.

Shit education system? You mean the country with the best universities in the world year after year rated by international organizations?