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  1. #301
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    You understand this is a bad thing, right?



    Not by anyone with an ounce of sense. Fun fact: You can make an argument without supporting whatever it is you're supposedly "defending".



    The second sentence has absolutely no relevance to the first sentence.



    There is no such thing as "good and evil".
    I disagree and even yourself think some things are bad ( evil ) as indicated by the first bold part of your post. :P I would however agree that what one would consider good, others may feel it is bad. Thankfully as a whole the US society agrees that sex with a minor is bad ( evil ).

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    [QUOTE=Ebalina;45386128]There is no such thing as good and evil there only view points who collide.
    Every one thinks they are doing the right thing for their own reasons and views.[/QUOTE]

    The bold part is true. But good and evil do exist. As one can define something they think is bad as evil and what they think is good, as righteous. But absolutely those two points not everyone shares what is good or bad. But the law seems to be mostly on the side of what is good in the US.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    At 14 you are not developed enough to fully understand the risks and consequences of such behavior. That is why it is against the law to have sex with someone under age. 4.5 years would be enough if the prison he is sent to is a real prison. You know, do some road work busting your ass and sweating like a pig chained to other prisoners. Not some confined resort. :P
    Well that is subject to opinion, since many countries have a sexual consent age at or younger than 14, Japan for example. Yet there are some countries where the age of consent is 20+. It's 17 in Ireland, they were lenient because it was a 14 year old and not a young child. Someone here recently got away completely free for having sex with a 13 year old, because he was unaware of her age and she looked 18.

    For what in your opinion is such a crime that 4.5years is not enough, in some countries is completely legal.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  3. #303
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I disagree and even yourself think some things are bad ( evil ) as indicated by the first bold part of your post. :P I would however agree that what one would consider good, others may feel it is bad. Thankfully as a whole the US society agrees that sex with a minor is bad ( evil ).
    The problem with this is that "bad" is not inherently synonymous with "evil". Breaking your leg is bad but it's not "evil". Religion and its associated morals have no place in determining law. That's not to say that society and religion don't have shared morals, but if religion is the motivator, the effort is inherently flawed.

  4. #304
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Well that is subject to opinion, since many countries have a sexual consent age at or younger than 14, Japan for example. Yet there are some countries where the age of consent is 20+. It's 17 in Ireland, they were lenient because it was a 14 year old and not a young child. Someone here recently got away completely free for having sex with a 13 year old, because he was unaware of her age and she looked 18.

    For what in your opinion is such a crime that 4.5years is not enough, in some countries is completely legal.
    I am aware of that. And we all have to live with the laws we have in each country. But I do not have to agree with them. Somewhere here is where? Any judge can not be any more lenient than the law allows him to be. And I said 4.5 years is enough punishment for that offender if the prisons are real prisons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    The problem with this is that "bad" is not inherently synonymous with "evil". Breaking your leg is bad but it's not "evil". Religion and its associated morals have no place in determining law. That's not to say that society and religion don't have shared morals, but if religion is the motivator, the effort is inherently flawed.
    I agree with a situation like breaking your leg. lol!

    But religion has always had a large input into laws and I hope will continue to do so. And am confident they will. If it became legal to have sex with a 10 year old, I would call that evil, that is very bad and a indication of the moral decline of a society.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Answered twice, then you ask it again?
    How many times does it take to sink in?

    If you had children or even cared for them you wouldn't be talking this shit.
    So if you think your older than me...(not likely. I recall that there might be two others here that might be...and you were neither of them) I can only conclude that your "in the closet."
    But think! What happens when you go public with your arguments that de facto defends child predators?
    Why are you steering this conversation towards child molestors? Is this some weird fantasy of yours?

    I think you're looking for a shot of outrage so you can get up on your high horse. Trouble is, you're way out of your depth in this argument. Like how you just told me how proud you are of answering a rhetorical question.
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You don't think that robbing someone of their ability to consent is a little more serious than fining their parents if they don't go to school?
    It places a condition upon children that they must do something that they have no choice in "for their own good".

    And actually as you'll no doubt know from this very forum parents making medical decisions for their children is also a controversial topic. Also, minors can emancipate themselves from their parents if they can show it's in their best interests. You can't emancipate yourself from age of consent laws though, the state has decided it knows better than you.
    Emancipation also has a minimum age which also varies.

    I suppose you are also against child labour laws, minimum ages for drinking, voting, driving, military service, etc. Also, I guess all children should be tried as adults now as well...since the state has no business deciding what a minor is. No more juvie.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2017-04-16 at 06:04 PM.
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  7. #307
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Good for Ireland to have such a law. It is the same in the US. So next time he wants to brainwash and seduce a young, not fully developed girl , he should do it in another country which it is legal and while he is at it, stay there. :P Also child pornography is illegal in the US and I assume is in Canada. Arrest his ass for contributing to that if he sends and receives nude pics of a underage girl in his country.
    Plenty of young teenage girls are plenty developed.

    They're called "jailbait" for a reason.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    They were also treated like shit. Considered property. Did not even have the right to vote. :P
    historically no one had the vote.
    there is only a very brief point in time where males had near universal suffrage and women didn't - the reason for that was the mass armies requiring the draft.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Err I'm not sure how to put this to you, but when I was 14, the girls my age were rarely interested in romantic relations with us.

    You know why?

    Cause they were busy going out and fucking 20-25 years olds with cars and money, and sometimes much older, the bigger their car and wallet, the more attractive they were for the girls. And no, they were not "groomed" and "lured", I saw again and again how they always found their way to these older men and how they used their juvenile charms to force a reaction.

    I agree that you should have better control as a man and should not allow yourself into one of these relationships, but I know better than to trust one side of the story after seeing what I've saw in my childhood.
    Sad part this is a reality and not a mythic/made up shit.
    Same thing was happening when i was in highschool as well.
    It is still happening.

    I was one of 5boys in a class of 31 ppl.
    I can remember at leat 8girls who had boyfriends who were above 25 and their age been between 15-17.
    I'm preaty sure there were more but they didn't felt the need to show it off left and right like those 8 or so.

  10. #310
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Plenty of young teenage girls are plenty developed.

    They're called "jailbait" for a reason.
    That is true. Still no excuse however of having sex with a minor. Being sexually active also requires one to act responsibly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    historically no one had the vote.
    there is only a very brief point in time where males had near universal suffrage and women didn't - the reason for that was the mass armies requiring the draft.
    I was referring to the US history. I am well aware of the atrocities other societies have inflected on their own kind.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    But religion has always had a large input into laws and I hope will continue to do so. And am confident they will. If it became legal to have sex with a 10 year old, I would call that evil, that is very bad and a indication of the moral decline of a society.
    Obviously, there is no objective reasoning that makes grown men sleeping with children acceptable. But religion is inherently a fallacious construct and as such, basing the morals and laws on it is detrimental to the progress of a modern society.

    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Cause they were busy going out and fucking 20-25 years olds with cars and money, and sometimes much older, the bigger their car and wallet, the more attractive they were for the girls. And no, they were not "groomed" and "lured", I saw again and again how they always found their way to these older men and how they used their juvenile charms to force a reaction.
    Careful with facts. Some people don't like them.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    That is true. Still no excuse however of having sex with a minor. Being sexually active also requires one to act responsibly.

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    I was referring to the US history. I am well aware of the atrocities other societies have inflected on their own kind.
    yeah, for most of US history most people did not have the vote, and male suffrage became a thing after the drafts for the civil war.

  13. #313
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Obviously, there is no objective reasoning that makes grown men sleeping with children acceptable. But religion is inherently a fallacious construct and as such, basing the morals and laws on it is detrimental to the progress of a modern society.



    Careful with facts. Some people don't like them.
    Na. Because of religious input, we have such things as rights of others and respect for each other reflected in our laws. Just about all the Founding Fathers of the Constitution had some religious influences in their decision making. It is even reflected in the Declaration of Independence in the reference to a Creator. But they also warned of the dangers of a government being run and controlled by a certain sect of religion. But also embraced the common morals of religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yeah, for most of US history most people did not have the vote, and male suffrage became a thing after the drafts for the civil war.
    Which the Civil war was fought over some injustices which the Constitution was clear about being wrong. Later, other laws have been made to reflect the values in the Constitution.

  14. #314
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Na. Because of religious input, we have such things as rights of others and respect for each other reflected in our laws. Just about all the Founding Fathers of the Constitution had some religious influences in their decision making. It is even reflected in the Declaration of Independence in the reference to a Creator. But they also warned of the dangers of a government being run and controlled by a certain sect of religion. But also embraced the common morals of religion.
    While religion played a part in the morals and standards of the nation's founding, they are not the source of the overall moral standards of humanity and certainly have no relevance in modern society. This is the literal equivalent of saying that we should let Disney write laws because some of their stories have good "morals".

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Err I'm not sure how to put this to you, but when I was 14, the girls my age were rarely interested in romantic relations with us.

    You know why?

    Cause they were busy going out and fucking 20-25 years olds with cars and money, and sometimes much older, the bigger their car and wallet, the more attractive they were for the girls. And no, they were not "groomed" and "lured", I saw again and again how they always found their way to these older men and how they used their juvenile charms to force a reaction.

    I agree that you should have better control as a man and should not allow yourself into one of these relationships, but I know better than to trust one side of the story after seeing what I've saw in my childhood.
    I had similar at our school, all these girls Fucking guys way older. I talk to the girls now and they're all of the opinion that they were easily lead by people abusing their position, they neear unanimously said in hindsight they wish they hadn't done it. I know this is purely anecdotal but 14 year old girls make stupid decision and these lecherous older assholes abused the fact they had cars and money.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Err I'm not sure how to put this to you, but when I was 14, the girls my age were rarely interested in romantic relations with us.

    You know why?

    Cause they were busy going out and fucking 20-25 years olds with cars and money, and sometimes much older, the bigger their car and wallet, the more attractive they were for the girls. And no, they were not "groomed" and "lured", I saw again and again how they always found their way to these older men and how they used their juvenile charms to force a reaction.

    I agree that you should have better control as a man and should not allow yourself into one of these relationships, but I know better than to trust one side of the story after seeing what I've saw in my childhood.
    Of course teenagers are going to be fascinated with young adults... They represent all the freedom and the things adolescents want to have. That is not exclusive to girls though. I remember when I was 15, boys my age were also attracted to models, actress, women 25-30 years old and did not really pay much attention to us. I started having my classmates looking at me a few years later, probably when they realized that Alyssa Milano was not going to fuck them anytime soon and so did many of my girl friends. Either we all became hotties around 17-18 or boys just wake up later (?)

    But you are right, teenage girls often try to charm older guys, think it is part of how many women build self-esteem - ironically - by feeling sexy and desired... It is kinda up to the adult of the situation not to fall for it though.

    Just wanted to add, in my experience you are over-exaggerating the "money+car" thing. It is more that the older guy looks more mature - does not have a boyish face anymore, for example - and has the freedom to do whatever he wants - or so it seems to a 15 years old - while your classmate still have to ask his parents permission for everything. It also plays a role in the rebellious stage of adolescence and the fact that teenage girls often think to be more mature than what they actually are, thus look for partners that supposedly are more mature than boys their same age. Receiving nice things is a bonus. The car part was never an issue for us though, because at 16 we could drive scooters and that was amazing enough (in the U.S. you can even drive cars at that age, unless it is a movie thing only :-P).
    Last edited by Mizix; 2017-04-16 at 09:58 PM.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobblo View Post
    That hasn't stopped you before. You have yet to defend your claim at all. Your argument rests on us agreeing with you, and if we don't, then your argument falls apart.
    Yeah, you successfully refused to agree that there was any meaningful distinction between children and adults and then I stopped replying to you. If you view that as some sort of victory, hats off to you, I guess.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    You understand this is a bad thing, right?
    You understand that is much of the US Constitution, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Not by anyone with an ounce of sense.
    More like anyone that is in favor of child predation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    There is no such thing as "good and evil".
    Yeah...like laws and ethics...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    Obviously, there is no objective reasoning that makes grown men sleeping with children acceptable. But religion is inherently a fallacious construct and as such, basing the morals and laws on it is detrimental to the progress of a modern society.
    Like Quakers fighting slavery...damn them, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    While religion played a part in the morals and standards of the nation's founding, they are not the source of the overall moral standards of humanity and certainly have no relevance in modern society.
    When has the US Constitution "had no relevance in modern society?"

    Look, if you're in favor of child predation, just say so.
    But stay away from children.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobblo View Post
    And this makes my case. Your argument hinges on the fact that we agree on when a child becomes an adult.
    And still you struggle with the difference between age of majority and age of consent.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  20. #320
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Err I'm not sure how to put this to you, but when I was 14, the girls my age were rarely interested in romantic relations with us.

    You know why?

    Cause they were busy going out and fucking 20-25 years olds with cars and money, and sometimes much older, the bigger their car and wallet, the more attractive they were for the girls. And no, they were not "groomed" and "lured", I saw again and again how they always found their way to these older men and how they used their juvenile charms to force a reaction.

    I agree that you should have better control as a man and should not allow yourself into one of these relationships, but I know better than to trust one side of the story after seeing what I've saw in my childhood.
    That seems like a big time stereotype of girls your age.
    You really think this is the norm in Ireland?

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