Want to truly make America great?

[NED funded]

As I said, doing its best to compensate is not erasing the violation, merely mitigating it. So yeah, the example works just fine, as well as the others I provided.

The definition of extractive is a society in which a small group of elites generate as much wealth as possible with the society for their own benefit. Replacing people as better options become available is actually a benefit to a very large upper end of the society. Similarly, other instances of impinging upon an individual's rights for the greater good also do not automatically make a society extractive.

As I said, doing its best to compensate is not erasing the violation, merely mitigating it. So yeah, the example works just fine, as well as the others I provided.

The compensation is the act that the government caring for your welfare, how good or to what extent the principle goes is a topic for another discussion. Also explain, why incarceration equal to the government not caring for its citizens?

The definition of extractive is a society in which a small group of elites generate as much wealth as possible with the society for their own benefit. Replacing people as better options become available is actually a benefit to a very large upper end of the society. Similarly, other instances of impinging upon an individual's rights for the greater good also do not automatically make a society extractive.

Well someone just googled the definition of extractive institutions. Rights are part of inclussive insitutions denying rights in favour of another group chosen by the elite by some arbitrary measure of goodness doesn't sound inclussive to me.

[Sneezeburger]

Hombregato your signature makes me deeply uncomfortable.

Though I suspect that's the point.

[NED funded]

It's caring about the welfare of citizens, but not that specific citizen. Again, as I said, we're already more than willing to sacrifice the one for the good of the many in a variety of circumstances. I'm not sure why I have to keep repeating this. This conversation has been stuck on this same point since the first time you responded to me and you just keep asking the same question over and over.

Rights are literally whatever you make them. They're purely constructs of the human imagination, so if your definitions hinge on whether one arbitrary set of rights or another exists, then they're pretty useless definitions that aren't worth inserting into the conversation.

1. I'll drop the point since it really isn't important to the coverasation and we are not moving.
2. You can't realistically take stuff to its extreme, since each stuff has its specific context. Citizenship in this case is an extreme.

Rights are literally whatever you make them. They're purely constructs of the human imagination, so if your definitions hinge on whether one arbitrary set of rights or another exists, then they're pretty useless definitions that aren't worth inserting into the conversation.

When speaking of inclussive institutions vs exclusive ones you can't shush rights, specially the one of citizenship.

- - - Updated - - -

Hombregato your signature makes me deeply uncomfortable.

Though I suspect that's the point.

Yeah, its meant to be a parody on the defense that the entirety of the loli genre in anime is not pedophilia.

[Unhinged]

If you want to make America average you need a proper healthcare system. The US has a good military bit the rest of the country is completely sub standard when compared to the rest of the West.

[NED funded]

Why is citizenship an extreme?
Why can't it be pushed to an extreme? Why does that make it different?

Every response pretty much seems to assume that it's just an idea that doesn't require defending for some reason.

If the government's duty is to ensure the welfare of its citizens, having no citizenship means the government is no longer obliged to ensure your welfare basically loosing all your rights.

Also I will repeat this:
Rights are part of inclussive insitutions denying rights in favour of another group chosen by the elite by some arbitrary measure of goodness doesn't sound inclussive to me.

[Tijuana]

Since retro is all the rave these days, let's hear what 1947 America would have to say about 2017 America:

TL;DW

/10chars...

[Powerogue]

Swap some scapegoats around and it is astonishingly applicable. Though I am only 5 minutes in so far.

[NED funded]

It's not a total lack of citizenship, merely rescinding the citizenship of the few to benefit the many.

Rights are arbitrary in their entirety. They are purely constructed concepts of the human imagination. All you have to do to not deny a right is to not define a right, which is why that objection is meaningless.

LMAO, so now you are advocating for a sytem of chastes were one group is less of a citizen than another? So inclusive.

[Locruid]

Ban Liberals......problem solved

[Deleted]

This is what made america great:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This text doesnt include anything about Trumps racism, or bigot hillbillies who want to make america "great with hate".

But probably i am just misinterpreting that.

[BannedForViews]

Why should you be entitled to remain here just because you were born inside the imaginary line when people better and more valuable than you can't get in? Why should America have to carry you through content when we could replace you with better people?

lol....

/10char

[Tijuana]

This is what made america great:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This text doesnt include anything about Trumps racism, or bigot hillbillies who want to make america "great with hate".

But probably i am just misinterpreting that.

America was already great before progressives raised money to put a poem on the base of a French statue. It's a nice poem and all but...just sayin...

[Sneezeburger]

lol....

/10char

You know, it's not terribly difficult to understand why someone born here gets to stay. It's a little more difficult to understand why that guy can grow up to be someone who does nothing but smoke meth and steal copper wire from construction sites, but the kid who came here illegally at 6 months old and would be on his way to med school but for his immigration status is the one that has to go.

[Nadiru]

You know, it's not terribly difficult to understand why someone born here gets to stay. It's a little more difficult to understand why that guy can grow up to be someone who does nothing but smoke meth and steal copper wire from construction sites, but the kid who came here illegally at 6 months old and would be on his way to med school but for his immigration status is the one that has to go.

On the other hand, why are we using resources on people who come here illegally and grow up to smoke meth and steal copper wire when we already have a growing native underclass which does that?

[Sneezeburger]

On the other hand, why are we using resources on people who come here illegally and grow up to smoke meth and steal copper wire when we already have a growing native underclass which does that?

If you come here illegally and commit crimes, I, and the vast majority of Americans, have no issue with you being thrown out. But these cut and dry distinctions seem a lot less equitable when you consider how they affect large numbers of law-abiding citizens who came here as children, or even adults, and who are hard-working, patriotic people who love this country.

[Nadiru]

If you come here illegally and commit crimes, I, and the vast majority of Americans, have no issue with you being thrown out. But these cut and dry distinctions seem a lot less equitable when you consider how they affect large numbers of law-abiding citizens who came here as children, or even adults, and who are hard-working, patriotic people who love this country.

It isn't equitable at all, but I also don't see a good alternative to it.

[Pengekaer]

We can't use CRISPR on human egg cells for experimentation.

And you don't see the point in this?

We have a very expensive process for testing and approving new drugs.

Yes of course, that's sensible. The pharma-companies have to provide documentation for several things during the three (or four) clinical trial phases.

1) that the drug is safe for use at the recommended doeses.
2) that it works as intended. A double blinded study should document some level of effect or response to the drug before it can be approved.

Only a fraction of the drugs that enter clinical trial phase I make it to phase 3/4. The reason is that most of them fail to meet the documentation-requirements mentioned above. The whole idea behind it is to prevent the market from overflowing with shitty pharmaceuticals that are either dangerous or don't perform (in which case, they may also be dangerous). The idea behind phase 3/4 particularly is also, of course, to evaluate if different ethnic groups show similar response to said drug (this is not always the case) in which case quite large populations need to be tested, dramatically raising the cost of launching a pharmaceutical. Statistically significant results, especially when criteria are strict, require quite large sample-populations = $$$. It's just how it is. It literally cannot be changed.

Google has self driving cars, but we already have laws against it.

If you want America great, then we gotta be more open with new technology.

Laws against it or laws regarding testing and documentation of safety? To my knowledge, Google are testing these cars and are doing so quite legally.

I am all for investing more in technology, heck, my country's efforts in this respect are borderline pathetic, but I am not at all in favour of scrapping regulations, safety-assesments and efficacy-testing before said technology can be implemented.

Technology is not a toy and science isn't a playground and should never be treated as such (IMO).

[Sneezeburger]

It isn't equitable at all, but I also don't see a good alternative to it.

Well, the alternative is, and I'm not saying you're guilty of this, acknowledging them as human beings in a shitty situation rather than the scum of the earth, as is the case with many so many fervently anti-immigrant people.

[Video Games]

What right exists without being defined into existence? Labeling something a "basic human right" is, like any other right, merely a statement of willingness to defend it and not one describing some fundamental aspect of existence. Yet again you are telling me what is the case and not why it should be the case.

Actually kind of agree with you that nothing actually dictates that things should be the way they are beyond flawed human cognition. But i guess to try and answer is most people seem to be ok with the way things are so there's no reason to change it.

[Video Games]

I think the person who earlier said you'd have to create an entirely new society to get it through basically came the closest to giving a correct answer. Simply put, with the way society is right now and the views and expectations of people being what they are, any attempt to implement such a policy would likely be catastrophic and inspire a lot of fear and unrest that any given person would be next. It would be virtually impossible to implement in such a way that it's actually a net positive for the society as a result. It's therefore a limitation imposed more as a matter of being a hostage to circumstances, rather than having any intrinsic value (and there are other ways to rationally advocate for the current model).

However, given that is the case, it strikes me as very strange that people are so bitter towards people desperate to get into the country. They figuratively spit on them and talk about how they're not entitled to be here with a certain contempt, but in reality they're no more deserving of their residence here than the people they look down their nose at. It's just a serendipitous circumstance for them, not something they earned or worked for, and as such I think they should be less judgmental of others. This doesn't stop them from advocating for tighter restrictions on immigration or better enforcement of existing laws if there is a practical purpose to be achieved by such, but it does make it rather hypocritical to sneer at them and talk about them like subhuman filth.

I dunno. Without immigration i wouldn't have met all the wonderful people in my life and i would have still been homeless. People are just weird and bitchy about stuff that hardly matters.