Who sacrificed more: DH or DK?

[Amirila]

He told the PC DH to along with the rest of the Illidari.

And I'm comparing Legion events right now, otherwise we'll have to go down the rabbit hole of the insanity that he did in BC, while point out how Khadgar helped prevent Sargeras from keeping Medivh possessed.

He literally just came back though, so there's not much to go after

[Blood Raven]

It's hard to say for me. DKs did sacrifice their initial lives for their world at one point willingly, although they were raised in undeath against their will. DHs chose to sacrifice the lives they knew to fight the Legion. After said sacrifices both tend to suffer the consequences of them, although in my personal opinion DKs have to live with a lot worse in the end.

I do find it admirable though that despite all the crap a DK has to endure to continue to exist that they never complain about it and actually continue to fight for their world even when they could abandon it altogether or try to off themselves similar to Sylvannas. After all, I doubt most people would be happy having to kill and inflict pain and torture on other living things constantly to maintain their sanity, but they still do it to continue to fight the good fight. That and there's also the fact that DKs can literally no longer find pleasure in anything in life ever again while a DH still has the opportunity to enjoy things.

Edit - Spacing issue.

[Jester Joe]

He literally just came back though, so there's not much to go after

You said though-

And if you want to use Khadgar as an example then Illidan is doing more

[Amirila]

You said though-

Yes, overall

[Deleted]

i find that when a demon hunter says they have sacrificed everything, they usually don't mean personal sacrifice but more often sacrificing others "for the cause".

they readily sacrifice other peoples souls or cause collateral damage "for the cause". only as a last resort will they sacrifice one of their own, but so would anyone else in a similar situation. it isn't sacrifice so much as it is just convenient/easier to use evil means.

[Deleted]

Let's be honest... DH's are just weaklings that were unable to get at an adequate powerlevel without getting juiced on demonic essence. That's not opinion. It's fact. They got juiced to the grills on demon essence, and even so, they're still only - at best - on par with other classes that did not need to get juiced on demon essence.

That's not sacrifice. It's just getting juiced to the eyeballs to get out of cannon-fodder range.

And i'm still crushing you on dps

[Charge me Doctor]

Neither of these two.
one was resurrected and enslaved, then they fought for their own personal freedom
other joined illidan forces willingly to become more powerful.

You want an example of sacrifice? Dragon aspects, they willingly gave up their powers to fix their fuck up with deathwing and whoever controlled him when he convinced everyone that creation of dragon soul was a good idea.

[Jester Joe]

Yes, overall

But he's not at all. Khadgar has been doing far more to fight against the Legion. Getting off topic though I suppose, point is their sacrifice is coming up as nearly pointless.

[Allenseiei]

The payment of the Dk sacrifice was to kill their love ones, fight for the enemy the once stood agaisnt and yet when they finally regained their free will, they didn't return to their respective factions as War heroes, they destroyed the scourge in the end but what now?Their families were either dead or only a few survived (Thassarian and Leryssa being a example), in some cases they were constantly haunted by the memories or/and spirits of those they killed.

In theory, they only sacrificed their lifes, but overhaul, this caused the death of families, Kingdoms, Fellow soldiers and much more.

Similar to how the DH were treated. They sacrificed in life everything, only to be kicked out and shunned by the people they wanted to protect. Even now, if you walk as a night elf dh (at least, dunno if blood elfs have this) around some elven temples they critize you as you pass by.
If a DH looses control of the demon within, they will kill and destroy everything they wanted to protect. Constantly fighting against the urge and the tempation of going the easy way and join the Legion.

This is now, but what happens after the Legion disappears? Will they return as heroes? I doubt it. They might be treated as the new demons.

The dk's had no choice, the dh's have to constantly fight to make the right choice. Sacrifice is a choice of action.

[Charge me Doctor]

Demon hunters, The willingly gave up their bodies and lives (in terms of social standing etc) to gain the power to fight back against the legion be it for vengeance or in service to Azeroth. Death Knights literally just died and were rezzed by Arthas.

"my city was destroyed by legion, i have two options - help to rebuild it and community, or become an edge lord. Hm..."

[Fireguard]

Choosing to sacrifice for a good cause and knowing everything is good at home is alot different,

Than being forcefully recruited, killing your own allies, becoming an outcast and unholy creature, then essentially forced to fight or die/live in isolation.

[Rogalicus]

Warlocks, we have sacrificed metamorphosis to Demon Hunters, Demonology playstyle to Shadow Priests and cool Burning Embers visuals to Fire Mages.

[Polybius]

Lorewise, all classes but DHs have sacrificed the most.

DHs are clueless from being in stasis for years.

[Dastreus]

What DID Demon Hunters give up, anyway? They are accepted into society again. Their sacrifice before was being outcasts. I guess now they also fight some demon inside, so there's that? Death Knights can't reproduce, slaughtered everything they knew and loved, and in a lot of cases, slowly loose their emotions the more they use necromantic magics, as well as their form.

Demon Hunters meanwhile, have some fel eyes, and tatoos. Much sacrifice. Many pain. Wow.

Lorewise, all classes but DHs have sacrificed the most.

DHs are clueless from being in stasis for years.

[TriHard]

Except their life they never died.

DKs were killed and ressed by force. Thus they didn't sacrifice anything, not even their humanity because it was taken from them from the very start.

Some Demon Hunters did however sacrifice themselves during the starting experience as you could see. And a lot more did sacrifice themselves for the cause.

[Irian]

Death knights. They literally gave up their lives in defense of Azeroth, and even more impressively they rose from the dead and fought against the control of the Lich King to keep fighting in defense of Azeroth. In all honesty death knights, barring the recent questionable acts of Bolvar, are some of the noblest heroes in the Warcraft universe.

Think about this: they've already given up their lives. They're basically death machines at this point and could very easily just say "fuck it" and go off and do their own thing, jump off a cliff or do anything except defend Azeroth. They have to live each day being a monster in the eyes of even their allies and yet they do it anyway for the sake of the world they aren't a part of anymore.

To be honest demon hunters in Legion have struck me as extremely pathetic, unstable and petty. Their order practically falls apart and defects over the DH starting zone and Legion leveling. They willfully undergo bodily mutilation and possession in exchange for power that they've clearly shown that they can't control.
They chose the path they went on. It's not like they were forced into being demon hunters, in fact becoming a demon hunter has an extremely high casualty rate for the training alone; they did it for power. They "sacrificed" for the sake of power they felt like they needed to fight the Legion.

And well, I'm not one to mix game mechanics with lore usually, but...I mean, do you guys see anything wrong with the normal night elves and blood elves defending against the Legion right now? Could you not have just wielded blades without maiming your body with fel magic? Warriors, rogues? Anything else that didn't have a chance to drive you crazy?

They act under this guise of sacrifice and yet simple deduction would lead to a reality where they just wanted power. They're a group of outcasts and traitors who decided the only path to power was the most reckless, idiotic and dangerous one, and worse yet we actually see this throughout Legion.

[Ielenia]

Death knights. They literally gave up their lives in defense of Azeroth

Your "life" as a Death Knight starts the moment you are raised, which is, you're pointedly ignoring, against your will. It matters not if you wished to enjoy your much-deserved afterlife or not. You were now bound to serve. Against your will. Death Knights sacrifice nothing.

[starlord]

at least dks dont try to act like they are better than me because they got turned into a zombie.
dh's problems are all self-induced, but calling it a personal sacrifice hardly seems the right term when they went into it willingly to get something they wanted (power.)

if someone wants my fries for a dollar thats not really a sacrifice, thats bartering.
DK's died for no reward.

[Irian]

Your "life" as a Death Knight starts the moment you are raised, which is, you're pointedly ignoring, against your will. It matters not if you wished to enjoy your much-deserved afterlife or not. You were now bound to serve. Against your will. Death Knights sacrifice nothing.

Sacrifice doesn't require consent. You can sacrifice something unwillingly. People sacrifice their lives constantly in war, that doesn't mean they went in planning to die.

What we do know about the would-be death knights is that they died in battle against the Scourge. That's a sacrifice. It's not the same kind of "sacrifice" DHs pretend to have given, but it's definitely a sacrifice. If a death knight willingly allowed themselves to be converted like the first DKs then yeah there'd be no sacrifice involved, but that's not the player DK. It's said multiple times that the DK player characters are heroes that died in battle.



Oh, and if you're trying to imply that the death knight's life begins when they're raised, you're just factually completely wrong. It's stated in death knight lore repeatedly that death knights have their original souls, it's one of the first things you witness upon making a new death knight. They are the same person they were when they die, they don't become a new person. That makes just as much as sense as trying to imply that a demon hunter becomes a new person when they infuse themselves with a demon's soul.

[Tatzi]

Both are edge-lordy, but a demon hunter CHOOSES to give up his normal life to dedicate himself to his cause of protecting others from demons or just killing as many as possible which has a similar effect. A death knight was FORCED to be raised and were, originally, meant to be powerful soldiers against the living.

If you're going to talk about a death knight needing to die for their faction being a bigger sacrifice, than literally ANY soldier type can fit that and the discussion is over, since technically, anyone who will or has ever died in battle has sacrificed more than [insert anything alive here].