Brexit bites as EU workers start to say screw you UK we are outa here…

[kamuimac]

To put your point a different way, supply and demand apply to the labor market just like any other market. To the low skill jobs that cannot be shipped over seas, a huge increase in supply of workers can logically only result in a decrease in the value of the labor. This is a concept many struggle to understand, for some reason.

you are looking at it from a bit wrong perspective - you are no longer a lonely island - yes you will be more isolated economicaly but EU with its huge market and whats more important with its donations to buisnesses will beat your production by long mile especially if you will be forced to rise wages - rising wages is easy - but with risen wages your product is not competitive on other markets. and if its not competitive it doesnt sell - if owners dont make money their only logical solution is closing this buisness and cuting losses.

you are assuming that only thing that will rise will be wages - but its far from truth - the moment minimum wages rise inflation rushes - and in end resoult people with shitty jobs and shitty wages still earn shitty money they just have "illusion" of numbers rising - problem is their cost of living will rise dramaticaly - if you think its lie - look at what is happening for example in shanghai where 30 m^2 apartment costs more then 60 m^2 + in london. why do you think chinesse buisneses buy out london and other EU cities ? because its bloody cheap for them. and if you will rush inflation it will be even cheaper.

[Noradin]

To put your point a different way, supply and demand apply to the labor market just like any other market. To the low skill jobs that cannot be shipped over seas, a huge increase in supply of workers can logically only result in a decrease in the value of the labor. This is a concept many struggle to understand, for some reason.

Or how about we look at it yet another way:
If there is not enough supply only the richest few will be able to afford it.
People do not really need warm water from the tap if they have a stove, so why let more plumbers in than needed to get rid of the shit?
(Well, on a second thought... not getting rid of the shit only ever kills a few, right? Wouldn't ever happen to you, I'm sure, because deseases never spread to others, right? And you can afford to pay higher wages for your home.)

[Thalassian Bob]

To put your point a different way, supply and demand apply to the labor market just like any other market. To the low skill jobs that cannot be shipped over seas, a huge increase in supply of workers can logically only result in a decrease in the value of the labor. This is a concept many struggle to understand, for some reason.

Weird, isn't it.

[Mayhem]

The context is that the British people believe the levels of immigration are too high and have been too high for a very long time. They were told by their leaders and UKIP that this was because of being a member of the EU which is partly true. Whether you want accept it or not demographic change of nearly 10% in under 20 years is a big swing and it's higher than what the natives want to see.

Deomgraphic change of 10% in under 20 years? What numbers are you talking about?

Now the British Government will be unable to scapegoat the EU we might see the change that the people want or come election year Politicians might be losing their seats.

Given that the one responsible for immigration in the past 6 years is PM now i kind of doubt that.

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8.5 million immigrants is a large number. In fact it is the fifth highest immigrant population in any country in the world.

Words as large, mass, small need context to mean something. 8.5 million is not a large number compared to for example China or India. So now if we put it in context, that it is the fifth highest immigrant population means nothing because put into perspective 50 other countries have larger immigrant populations as a percentage of their population. Germany has 12 million immigrants and they seem to be doing fine, so how in the world can the problems UK citizens face be due to immigration and not due to failed policies? Policies that would protect british citizens as well as immigrants.

What you want from the English language is still irrelevant to the English language.

Eh what?

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The Bank of England itself has stated that immigration on the current scale is depressing wages, schools are over-crowded in part because net immigration is at 300k a year and many of the people coming to the UK from places like the Indian sub-continent are having way more kids than native Brits and studies suggest migrants have a negative net impact on the exchequer between £4 billion and £17 billion pounds per year. When broken down by areas of origin, people from places like the original EU14 offer a net contribution to the treasury, but those from Eastern Europe and Asia are often a net drain. An uncomfortable case of affairs, to be sure, but one that has the data to support it.

Well apart from EU members your government could regulate immigration from everywhere else like it pleased but choose not to, instead it's all the EUs fault.

If we get out of the EU, rather than be obliged to hold the door open for any low-skilled labourer to come here and take blue collar jobs (that Brits surely would take if the wages and working standards improved), we can be more selective in who we invite to work here and create schemes that offer incentives for skilled workers we need to fill vital roles while we lack the domestic supply of labour for those jobs. And, if we stop migration from areas where immigrants are proving to be a net detriment on the exchequer, maybe we'll have the spare cash to bring back those nursing bursaries or lower tuition fees.

Other countries simply updated their labour laws to challange the influx so that working for less isn't an option because there is no less.

(Personally, I'm a fan of the idea radically reducing (or scrapping) the tuition fees on vital courses, like nursing, engineering and such, where necessary, and leaving people like art history students to pay the full fee for their esoteric pursuits.)

And who is going to pay for those? I mean, as much as people want to bitch about "useless" degrees, they are also the ones subsidising the expensive ones.

It's true that reducing migration isn't going to suddenly make all of Britain's problems evaporate, but it will go towards lowering the burden placed on the working class.

Except if with the loss of buying power also comes a reduce in job offers.

[ati87]

The Bank of England itself has stated that immigration on the current scale is depressing wages, schools are over-crowded in part because net immigration is at 300k a year and many of the people coming to the UK from places like the Indian sub-continent are having way more kids than native Brits and studies suggest migrants have a negative net impact on the exchequer between £4 billion and £17 billion pounds per year. When broken down by areas of origin, people from places like the original EU14 offer a net contribution to the treasury, but those from Eastern Europe and Asia are often a net drain. An uncomfortable case of affairs, to be sure, but one that has the data to support it.

If we get out of the EU, rather than be obliged to hold the door open for any low-skilled labourer to come here and take blue collar jobs (that Brits surely would take if the wages and working standards improved), we can be more selective in who we invite to work here and create schemes that offer incentives for skilled workers we need to fill vital roles while we lack the domestic supply of labour for those jobs. And, if we stop migration from areas where immigrants are proving to be a net detriment on the exchequer, maybe we'll have the spare cash to bring back those nursing bursaries or lower tuition fees.

(Personally, I'm a fan of the idea radically reducing (or scrapping) the tuition fees on vital courses, like nursing, engineering and such, where necessary, and leaving people like art history students to pay the full fee for their esoteric pursuits.)

It's true that reducing migration isn't going to suddenly make all of Britain's problems evaporate, but it will go towards lowering the burden placed on the working class.

How long did it take to write this piece of nonsense?

If you're going to use studies use then in proper context.

[Thalassian Bob]

How long did it take to write this piece of nonsense?

If you're going to use studies use then in proper context.

Uhuh. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...in-Europe.html (average number of children figures)

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/386p/ (immigration cost)

The issue is, you want to accept immigrants from former colonies (almost never a net contribution) instead of accepting immigrants from the rest of the EU (more likely to be a net contribution or at least a neutral affair). Did the EU stop the UK from having planned and more restrictive immigration when it came to immigrants outside the EU? Because restricting those flows could have easily diminished the problem considerably while still giving you easy access to e.g. Polish nurses of Greek MDs. Also you could have targeted welfare programs within the UK that allow Eastern Europeans to become a net drain and tightened the conditions on them. There were many solutions within the EU for the UK, they just required British MPs to do the work, own up to their own issues and stop scapegoating the EU for everything.

If we leave the EU, we can choose which countries within the EU we prioritise immigration from. For example, take French and German migrants (original EU14 members) and limit those coming from EU states that gained free movement after 2011.

And, we can be picky about what type of jobs are coming from where in the former colonies/commonwealth. Take more people from the Anglosphere for example.

Also, you're only talking about the economic potential benefits of remaining in the EU (which I am sceptical of looking at Greece and the youth unemployment of places like Spain and Italy), there are a whole bunch of other benefits that can be seized from our leaving the EU. It's not all about economics (and it's certainly not all about growth).

Well apart from EU members your government could regulate immigration from everywhere else like it pleased but choose not to, instead it's all the EUs fault.

It's not all EU immigrants' faults (migrants from the original EU14 contribute more than they take out), it's just that EU member states are the only countries where we are obliged to welcome whoever wants to come here, regardless of skill or principles. Everybody else has to earn it.

[Mayhem]

It's not all EU immigrants' faults (migrants from the original EU14 contribute more than they take out), it's just that EU member states are the only countries where we are obliged to welcome whoever wants to come here, regardless of skill or principles. Everybody else has to earn it.

You're aware that UK citizens enjoyed that freedom as well?

[Snorkles]

And, we can be picky about what type of jobs are coming from where in the former colonies/commonwealth. Take more people from the Anglosphere for example.

We already have the ability to do this right now.

[Thalassian Bob]

You're aware that UK citizens enjoyed that freedom as well?

And? The vast majority didn't make use of it. It was mostly the middle-class and tertiary educated. The average working class person couldn't really take advantage of it and mostly only felt the costs of having the road open the other way.

We already have the ability to do this right now.

Yes, we do. And once we leave the EU and are no longer compelled to take in any EU citizen who wants to come here, there will be more opportunities for people from outside the EU to come to the UK.

[Slant]

And? The vast majority didn't make use of it. It was mostly the middle-class and tertiary educated. The average working class person couldn't really take advantage of it and mostly only felt the costs of having the road open the other way.

Yes, because that's what your side pounded into their heads. It's not like anything's going to change after the Brexit, the poor are gonna stay poor, the unemployed are going to stay unemployed and the rich are getting richer on the back of the poor and the unemployed. Only this time, nobody else gives a shit in Europe. Good luck!

[Thalassian Bob]

Good luck!

Cheers, m8.

The more crucial part is that it was largely UK politicians that pushed for this Eastern Expansion. I can guarantee that the vast majority of things that you find problematic to the UK about the EU will have your own politicians pushing and authoring them.

Oh, I don't doubt it. Most of them wanted to remain in the EU because once they've served in national parliaments, they can move on to the cushy jobs in the EU parliament.

But, that's what's so exciting about the people's rejection of the "elite's" will on this issue.

[Mayhem]

The more crucial part is that it was largely UK politicians that pushed for this Eastern Expansion. I can guarantee that the vast majority of things that you find problematic to the UK about the EU will have your own politicians pushing and authoring them.

And now those same politicians somehow will make everything better.

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Yes, because that's what your side pounded into their heads. It's not like anything's going to change after the Brexit, the poor are gonna stay poor, the unemployed are going to stay unemployed and the rich are getting richer on the back of the poor and the unemployed. Only this time, nobody else gives a shit in Europe. Good luck!

What i don't get is, they have an unemployment rate of under 5%, still they complain about people not getting jobs, they complain about polish workers sending money home to support their children and at the same time complain about how immigrant children are a burdon to their school system. Almost 50% of EU immigrants moved there for definitive work but they also are a burdon on the NHS, while paying into it. Schrödingers immigrant?

[Kalis]

Words as large, mass, small need context to mean something. 8.5 million is not a large number compared to for example China or India. So now if we put it in context, that it is the fifth highest immigrant population means nothing because put into perspective 50 other countries have larger immigrant populations as a percentage of their population. Germany has 12 million immigrants and they seem to be doing fine, so how in the world can the problems UK citizens face be due to immigration and not due to failed policies? Policies that would protect british citizens as well as immigrants.

8.5 million would still be mass immigration regardless of where they go to, the effect on the host population may differ, but the numbers themselves would be the fifth largest immigrant population in any country in the world.

It is not a difficult concept, yet you have failed to grasp it in spectacular fashion.

Eh what?

Your struggle to comprehend basic English is not my fault.

[Mayhem]

8.5 million would still be mass immigration regardless of where they go to, the effect on the host population may differ, but the numbers themselves would be the fifth largest immigrant population in any country in the world.

It is not a difficult concept, yet you have failed to grasp it in spectacular fashion.

Yeah whatever... you're boring me out. That you are unable to answer yes/no questions is very telling. So i'll just leave it here, was fun for a while, thanks.

Your struggle to comprehend basic English is not my fault.

Your inability to read though is.

[Kalis]

Yeah whatever... you're boring me out. That you are unable to answer yes/no questions is very telling. So i'll just leave it here, was fun for a while, thanks.

Your argument was utterly destroyed the moment I linked a number of sources showing that it is regarded as mass immigration into the UK in Britain. At that point you should have gone quietly, but instead you went full deluded and tried to make out the British Government along with the entirity of the British media was wrong in how they use the English language, and a person of no discernible intellect speaking a second language they are not well versed in, was right.

It is up there with your arguing that French definitions of words from the 18th century were correct and that contemporary English-language definitions were wrong, in respect of the meaning of words in a conversation held in English.

Your inability to read though is.

I can read "though", I learnt it when you were no more than a twinkle in the milkman's eye.

[Mayhem]

Your argument was utterly destroyed the moment I linked a number of sources showing that it is regarded as mass immigration into the UK in Britain. At that point you should have gone quietly, but instead you went full deluded and tried to make out the British Government along with the entirity of the British media was wrong in how they use the English language, and a person of no discernible intellect speaking a second language they are not well versed in, was right.

You haven't read the links you provided which is obvious by now.

It is up there with your arguing that French definitions of words from the 18th century were correct and that contemporary English-language definitions were wrong, in respect of the meaning of words in a conversation held in English.

Considering both definitions of left and right were coined by the french you either reject both or none. But as you struggle with your own language that much i don't expect you actually know what you're talking about.

I can read "though", I learnt it when you were no more than a twinkle in the milkman's eye.

Can't write in his own language, but makes fun of others.

[Aggrophobic]

Cheers, m8.



Oh, I don't doubt it. Most of them wanted to remain in the EU because once they've served in national parliaments, they can move on to the cushy jobs in the EU parliament.

But, that's what's so exciting about the people's rejection of the "elite's" will on this issue.

The elite's will? Hah! The propaganda worked well on you, didn't it?

[Kalis]

You haven't read the links you provided which is obvious by now.

You still do not understand the purpose of the links. They were to demonstrate the use of the term in regards to the UK, which they did.

Considering both definitions of left and right were coined by the french you either reject both or none. But as you struggle with your own language that much i don't expect you actually know what you're talking about.

That is not how the English language works, that is not how any language works as far as I am aware. It is the meaning of terms in the language you are using that is relevant, not the meaning in the original language.

You seem to be mixing up etymology with contemporary usage.

Can't write in his own language, but makes fun of others.

I can write in English. I just did it. And again!

[Thalassian Bob]

The elite's will? Hah! The propaganda worked well on you, didn't it?

I put quote marks around it, because I knew how daft it sounded.

But, you look at how the vast majority of politicians voted and most of them wanted to stay in. Not because, I suspect, they believed it would benefit their constituencies or help the country, but because staying in benefited people in their profession and their income bracket. The working-class have known for a long time that the interests of the political establishment does not often line up with those of the typical worker and so, voters have been reflecting this in many recent political changes in the West and voting against what career politicians seem to want.

[Aggrophobic]

I put quote marks around it, because I knew how daft it sounded.

But, you look at how the vast majority of politicians voted and most of them wanted to stay in. Not because, I suspect, they believed it would benefit their constituencies or help the country, but because staying in benefited people in their profession and their income bracket. The working-class have known for a long time that the interests of the political establishment does not often line up with those of the typical worker and so, voters have been reflecting this in many recent political changes in the West and voting against what career politicians seem to want.

The typical worker rarely has much knowledge about whats good for them, it seems.