DAE Work in computer sales and look at the "builds of the month" and laugh a little?

[Lathais]

But thats the thing, it should be 4 builds, but actual 4 builds.

Right now a budget PC, or a Puppy, should be G4560 + 20$ Fronstal USB 3 case with a rx 460.

After that it should be an i3 with 1050 Ti.

After that, R5/7600K With 480/1060/1070 depending.

After that it can be the 7700K/R7/LGA2011 and 1080/1080 Ti for the "extreme" stuff.

Or not even call it extreme, they should make 3 builds, Budget/Starter/Gamer and "Consult the Computer forum for something more beefy"

Either way, its a stupid topic, but the problem is there are people that follow those builds without checking anything else and as i said, kinda annoys me, Puppy build as example has at least 100+$ wasted on worthless crap like the case/mobo/heatsink.

Hey at least its recommending 3Ghz RAM which is a correct thing, although i would go for 3.2Ghz on any i5/i7.

And the problem with monthly budget/started builds is sales. What's a good deal the first week of the month may not be the second week of the month. There could be a much better PSU that happens to be on a great sale in the second or third week of the month that frees up money and makes you able to step up somewhere else. BOTM is just really not feasible for this reason alone. Add in that one budget guy may need/want a beefier CPU while a different budget guy may need/want a better GPU. So what you need is a build in-between budget and starter. You can's just shoehorn everyone in to 4 different builds.

[potis]

And the problem with monthly budget/started builds is sales. What's a good deal the first week of the month may not be the second week of the month. There could be a much better PSU that happens to be on a great sale in the second or third week of the month that frees up money and makes you able to step up somewhere else. BOTM is just really not feasible for this reason alone. Add in that one budget guy may need/want a beefier CPU while a different budget guy may need/want a better GPU. So what you need is a build in-between budget and starter. You can's just shoehorn everyone in to 4 different builds.

Well yeah, but i just meant as a general image of pricing, a puppy build costing 700e? What? You can make a 450-500e build that plays WoW just as well as example and so on.

I meant builds price wise as an image of things, not as an 100% "build that".

Budget, ~450e, Starter 700e, Gamer 1K etc etc etc you get the scaling since you know the pricing.

[Stormspark]

I feel like the Unicorn builds have been a bit.. tame. Theres barely any difference between the Narwhal and Unicorn builds.

This week it was just a measly 150$, and most of that was in the.. case? Cpu fan? A PRO vs EVO SSD?
Come on, give the people some decent upgrades. Unless you go for the 1070, theres 0 difference in performance on those 2 builds.

The way I see it, the Unicorn build should be 7700K\GTX 1080, and Narwhal at 7600K/ 1070.
Whats the point in having 2 builds where the case and CPU fan are the 2 biggest differences?

I agree here. Having an i5 for both top end systems, including the highest end, is kind of silly.

That said, AMD is a contender again now too. The Ryzen processors don't *quite* beat the absolute top of the line i7's in most situations, but they are very competitive (within 5% usually) and can beat i5's in a lot of situations. It'd be nice if for each category they included both an AMD CPU/mobo combo and an Intel CPU/mobo combo.

[Lathais]

Well yeah, but i just meant as a general image of pricing, a puppy build costing 700e? What? You can make a 450-500e build that plays WoW just as well as example and so on.

I meant builds price wise as an image of things, not as an 100% "build that".

Budget, ~450e, Starter 700e, Gamer 1K etc etc etc you get the scaling since you know the pricing.

Which is the main problem, IMO. If you post them, some people will 100% build that. So just having them there is going to cause some people to buy them. Lots of people don;t even know about the Computer Forums here and plenty of people are just lurkers. People we have had zreo other contact with and know nothing about this stuff buy them and build them. We see it sometimes because people show up and say, "I bought/built last months Puppy and have some questions." Those are not the only people that bought/built those systems.

[DeltrusDisc]

I would just like to mention, the computer forums have nothing to do with the build of the month, actually. It's purely put together by chaud, and I'm not sure anyone else. We've had several disagreements in the past with his builds but can't really do anything about it.

[Lathais]

I agree here. Having an i5 for both top end systems, including the highest end, is kind of silly.

That said, AMD is a contender again now too. The Ryzen processors don't *quite* beat the absolute top of the line i7's in most situations, but they are very competitive (within 5% usually) and can beat i5's in a lot of situations. It'd be nice if for each category they included both an AMD CPU/mobo combo and an Intel CPU/mobo combo.

If you want to throw AMD recomendations in to the mix, I like the way this guy does it:
http://www.rabb1t.com/systems.html

I don't really agree with a lot of his other stuff, I mean his lowest end build has an i5 in it and costs basically $1000, and his builds only go up from there. His 5 tiers are pretty nice, but I think he sets the bar far to high at tier 1. The way he puts in the AMD replacement though is pretty neat, that way it's entirely up to the user. Still, when they only get updated every month or 3, it's not that great honestly.

[Alfador]

I'm a little afraid to ask what "work in computer sales" means in this context. From the post I'm getting the impression of the computer "expert" at Best Buy or Fry's who gives out personal opinion like actual advice to customers who just want to know if their kid can play minecraft on the laptop they're looking at.


Ryzen could be the cure for cancer and I still wouldn't trust an AMD CPU just yet. I have no reason yet to believe that their current benchmarks mean anything positive for gaming other than Intel maybe trying slightly harder moving forward again. It's vapid empty hype from fanboys finally glad to have a talking point that isn't "yeah but it's cheap." Give it a few months of people actually using the chip with real world results and I'll start to trust it. I'd love nothing more than to see AMD actually deliver but there's no way in hell I'm recommending it because of 2 months of good preview sitting atop 5 years of bad history.

There's also a second reason for it being all intel, and it's so the cost-tired builds can be mixed and matched. I will grant you offering an AMD-centric alternative in addition at each tier may not be a bad idea. The bigger concern I see regarding processors is that even the best builds being put forward are only using i5s.

Fussing about a 20 dollar DVD drive is silly. Plenty of software still comes in physical media form. It's cheap enough in the scope of the build that it may as well be free and it lends a modicum of flexibility. Not a big deal and not "a complete waste of budget." If you're hard up enough that a 20 dollar drive is making or breaking your build you have no business building your own computer.

Case is largely an aesthetic choice. Unless you're going to argue that a given case doesn't fit the needs of your build in terms of space or cooling you're just being an elitist snob about someone else's styling decision. It may or may not be a good point if any of those cases are truly noisy but this seems more about demonstrating some kind of tech-wokeness than an actual earnest attempt to assess suitability.

That said I'm with you on the motherboards and the power supplies being overdone on the lower end builds. That seems to be a trend for a while now.

Heat sinks too. I'm a little surprised you latched onto the case so aggressively but didn't really point that out.

All in all the builds this month are not great, but they're not anywhere near worth the mockery and disdain being let out here. There are some moderately questionable decisions, and some valid points about considering alternatives, but to paint them as objectively terrible decisions is over the top.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is the main problem, IMO. If you post them, some people will 100% build that. So just having them there is going to cause some people to buy them. Lots of people don;t even know about the Computer Forums here and plenty of people are just lurkers. People we have had zreo other contact with and know nothing about this stuff buy them and build them. We see it sometimes because people show up and say, "I bought/built last months Puppy and have some questions." Those are not the only people that bought/built those systems.

If someone is going to buy and build a setup based entirely on a single recommendation absent context, there's not a lot that can be done about that, and that's going to happen to plenty of folks elsewhere if not here.

[Fascinate]

I'm a little afraid to ask what "work in computer sales" means in this context. From the post I'm getting the impression of the computer "expert" at Best Buy or Fry's who gives out personal opinion like actual advice to customers who just want to know if their kid can play minecraft on the laptop they're looking at.


Ryzen could be the cure for cancer and I still wouldn't trust an AMD CPU just yet. I have no reason yet to believe that their current benchmarks mean anything positive for gaming other than Intel maybe trying slightly harder moving forward again. It's vapid empty hype from fanboys finally glad to have a talking point that isn't "yeah but it's cheap." Give it a few months of people actually using the chip with real world results and I'll start to trust it. I'd love nothing more than to see AMD actually deliver but there's no way in hell I'm recommending it because of 2 months of good preview sitting atop 5 years of bad history.

There's also a second reason for it being all intel, and it's so the cost-tired builds can be mixed and matched. I will grant you offering an AMD-centric alternative in addition at each tier may not be a bad idea.

Fussing about a 20 dollar DVD drive is silly. Plenty of software still comes in physical media form. It's cheap enough in the scope of the build that it may as well be free and it lends a modicum of flexibility. Not a big deal and not "a complete waste of budget." If you're hard up enough that a 20 dollar drive is making or breaking your build you have no business building your own computer.

Case is largely an aesthetic choice. Unless you're going to argue that a given case doesn't fit the needs of your build in terms of space or cooling you're just being an elitist snob about someone else's styling decision. It may or may not be a good point if any of those cases are truly noisy but this seems more about demonstrating some kind of tech-wokeness than an actual earnest attempt to assess suitability.

That said I'm with you on the motherboards and the power supplies being overdone on the lower end builds. That seems to be a trend for a while now.


All in all the builds this month are not great, but they're not anywhere near worth the mockery and disdain being let out here. There are some moderately questionable decisions, and some valid points about considering alternatives, but to paint them as objectively terrible decisions is over the top.

What exactly do you consider a "real world result". I have been using my ryzen 1700 PC for over a month now, it works just like you would expect a PC to lol.

[Alfador]

What exactly do you consider a "real world result". I have been using my ryzen 1700 PC for over a month now, it works just like you would expect a PC to lol.

Documented consistent performance reflective of benchmarks in actual gaming scenarios. If the depth of your analysis of is "it works like a PC" then you're really in no position to actually evaluate its performance or the benchmark accuracy. It wouldn't even be close to the first time AMD released something that looked great in a sterile testing environment yet displayed issues or failed to meet that standard of performance in practical application.

[DeltrusDisc]

Documented consistent performance reflective of benchmarks in actual gaming scenarios. If the depth of your analysis of is "it works like a PC" then you're really in no position to actually evaluate its performance or the benchmark accuracy. It wouldn't even be close to the first time AMD released something that looked great in a sterile testing environment yet displayed issues or failed to meet that standard of performance in practical application.

Sigh, Bulldozer.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Documented consistent performance reflective of benchmarks in actual gaming scenarios. If the depth of your analysis of is "it works like a PC" then you're really in no position to actually evaluate its performance or the benchmark accuracy. It wouldn't even be close to the first time AMD released something that looked great in a sterile testing environment yet displayed issues or failed to meet that standard of performance in practical application.

The reviews that I've seen have showed it to be competitive against the intel part, in particular in games and other applications that can leverage multiple cores.

[Lathais]

If someone is going to buy and build a setup based entirely on a single recommendation absent context, there's not a lot that can be done about that, and that's going to happen to plenty of folks elsewhere if not here.

While that's true, I'd rather not be the one giving them that, let them go elsewhere. Granted, I am not the one giving those builds so no skin off my back, just my opinion though.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

And the problem with monthly budget/started builds is sales.

Pretty much this.

It can be cleaned up to offer much more consistency across the board and be used as a general guideline but that's about as far as I would recommend BotM due to how often sales occur and how much of an impact they can have on your budget on an almost daily basis. In fact, I wouldn't even recommend it now since it's built around "what if" scenarios (like "what if you want a 7600k with your Puppy later on?") and out-dated information.

Build of the Month should link right to some kind of sticky in the Computer Build sub-forum where a moderator updates the list with pcpartspicker at least once a week based the community's experience with hardware and pricing and another sticky dedicated to sales/promotions or something.

[Lathais]

Build of the Month should link right to some kind of sticky in the Computer Build sub-forum where a moderator updates the list with pcpartspicker at least once a week based the community's experience with hardware and pricing and another sticky dedicated to sales/promotions or something.

I would say at least twice a week, preferably daily, but yeah. Either way, this has been discussed to death, both here and previously as well. At the very least, the "post" should say something along the lines of:
"These builds are a general guideline, for specific advice tailored to you please go HERE(with here being a link to the build sub-forum sticky thread).

[Zoldor]

Ryzen is still super new is the reason I assume they didn't market it up along with as others have said the region pricing issue. And of course bias.

I've used both AMD and Intel on multiple builds over the years and I've been burned by AMD more than Intel, so I'm sitting on Ryzen until at least they've been in the market 6 months. (I'm shooting for a fall Mobo/CPU build). Will I consider AMD again, sure, but I want some time in the space before I just jump back in.

Graphics wise, I'm on the fuck AMD train atm, For a good while I ran mostly AMD cards and damnit if I didn't have enough trouble, I'm back to nvidia on that front and so far so good. Who knows where I'll be in time.

Cases I'm outta the game on honestly because I've been rocking the same monster for a good while and I'm happy with it, but at the same time I'm not a case Diva. Long as it functions, things run cool, and I've got the room I'm solid. That is a personal thing there.

DVD drive, I'm confused by anyone with a desk top that doesn't have a dvd drive. Does it get a lot of use? Nope, but its 20 bucks and they aren't obsolete just yet. I'm totally fine with throwing a DVD drive in the mix. Having the ability to burn stuff, watch movies, install old software, etc never seems bad. And I spend 20 bucks on a meal. One less meal, for something I'll use on occasion seems fine.

I also agree I'd like to see a more super high end between Narwhal and Unicorn. Just to at least put some serious diversity for those who really want to see a cutting edge build.

[Manabomb]

Honestly used AMD once in my life and it was shit. I've used the same Intel CPU for 7 years now and never had a problem with it. There's a reason they're more expensive, AMD wouldnt have a chance if Intel lowered their prices.

You are extremely uninformed on how the CPU industry functions and the core differences between an Intel and AMD CPU.

[shrunken]

Heres your fanboy sign. go do some research. even LinusTechTips is giving the Ryzen good reviews. i know its hard to get over the team blue brainwashing (there advertising is amaziballs) but go look at the body of research.

Maybe you wouldn't be relegated to working in "computer sales" if you didn't struggle with there, their & they're. That said, it must be a struggle to feign incredulity that people might not be willing to regard AMD at this point. The brand hasn't trafficked in consumer goodwill since the Phenom II days.

[Barnabas]

People getting triggered over baseline builds for gaming. Now if you add streaming on top of it then ryzen completely craps on intel at 1080p60fps. AMD made a chip that can do more things than just play games all day better. Who cares?

[Triggered Fridgekin]

DVD drive, I'm confused by anyone with a desk top that doesn't have a dvd drive.

Some of the more modern cases don't have the option to install an optical drive. The NZXT S340, for example, doesn't which is why it's as small as it is while also allowing a tremendous amount of real estate for front-mounted 240mm AIO liquid coolers.

Personally, I think it's easily one of the best design shifts along with the shrouded PSU chamber. If you still use an optical drive it's obviously not a case for you but it's literally been years since I used mine so it wasn't a problem to go this route.

[Zoldor]

Some of the more modern cases don't have the option to install an optical drive. The NZXT S340, for example, doesn't which is why it's as small as it is while also allowing a tremendous amount of real estate for front-mounted 240mm AIO liquid coolers.

Personally, I think it's easily one of the best design shifts along with the shrouded PSU chamber. If you still use an optical drive it's obviously not a case for you but it's literally been years since I used mine so it wasn't a problem to go this route.

I'm going to check this case out just to see this shrouded PSU chamber. When I do my mobo/CPU change this fall I'm thinking about new cases, I do want an optical drive, since I don't massive over clock liquid isn't a need of mine, but I'd like to see what is new in design for sure.

** just went and looked and damn I'm out of the loop on case design. That is wild. Cable management looks nice, I'd like to see one in person to get a better feel. Might check some install vids for this case.