New Rift Starter Pack on Steam for 5 Euro/Dollars

[Eleccybubb]

Holy sweet Jesus, this. So much this.

Stubbornly arguing about what constitutes B2P or F2P is pathetic and not at all on topic, since I actually wanted to read about the Starter Pack, believe it or not.

I mean, sure, there wasn't much to really say about the Starter Pack but Jesus H. Christ this thread went silly places.

What more is there to say? Few goodies to start off in Rift then get to 65 and realize you have to buy if you wanna continue further. Admittedly the value of the pack is pretty decent for what you get.

Would I recommend the game or the pack to people? Not at all. And that pretty much sums up my opinions on the pack.

[Slipmat]

Do WoW and FFXIV get money by charging for upgrades. YES. By buying the game, I am upgrading from the trial.

Thank you for confirming my definition, to get past your limited Trial period in WoW or FF14 you then need to buy the base game, you do understand what the base version of a game is right? it's the version of the game without any added Expansions/DLCs yet, Rift offers it's base game plus two Expansions as it's F2P model, WoW and FF14 offer limited trial versions that you can't proceed past until you also buy the base game and then any Expansion(s) needed.

Anyhow, nobody could provide me with any definitions to counter mine, quoting Massively OP is just lul, that crowd are as much Experts as random posters here are, anyhow, seems time out has been called on this little "debate" so good luck trying to redefine definitions to suit your agenda.

[Lathais]

Thank you for confirming my definition, to get past your limited Trial period in WoW or FF14 you then need to buy the base game, you do understand what the base version of a game is right? it's the version of the game without any added Expansions/DLCs yet, Rift offers it's base game plus two Expansions as it's F2P model, WoW and FF14 offer limited trial versions that you can't proceed past until you also buy the base game and then any Expansion(s) needed.

Anyhow, nobody could provide me with any definitions to counter mine, quoting Massively OP is just lul, that crowd are as much Experts as random posters here are, anyhow, seems time out has been called on this little "debate" so good luck trying to redefine definitions to suit your agenda.

I understand what the base game is, however, the definitions you quoted make no mention of the base game. You are making up your own definition by adding that in, moving the goal posts.

Nobody provided you with definitions to counter yours? I provided you with not one but THREE. You dismiss one because it is massively OP.....You realize that your wikipedia link had Massively listed as one of it's sources. Worse than that, literally anyone or their brother, myself included, could edit that definition at any time they wanted. So you laugh at one of my links and ignore the other two while your source is the weakest of them all AND you have to add a term to the definition to make it fit what you want to say. Get bent.

[Slipmat]

You do realise the "base" game of WoW includes everything up to and including the last expansion, right?

So you don't have to buy the base game of WoW for levels 1 to 100 for €14.99 then?

[theWocky]

To stay on topic here - the RIFT starter pack DOES NOT include the new expansion / content page. It's basically a 15% XP boost.

For people reading these masses of pages, I don't want them to think that this starter pack includes Starfall Prophecy. It does not.

It would be good value if it was going towards a game that had value, but I sincerely doubt it does. RIFT, right now is purely a cosmetic-focused (dimensions, wardrobes) MMORPG.

I advise anyone considering spending any money on this game to do due diligence as it's currently (in my opinion and experience) a bug-ridden, over-hyped, under-delivering, low population, misrepresented mess with little to no end-game content except excessive grind.


So, to clear things up:

Whether or not, it's F2P or not, RIFT now has pretty much the same characteristics as GW2, Tera, Wildstar & Star Trek Online & Tera and to a lesser degree WoW.

You are squabbling about whether or not it's F2P or not. Essentially all that matters is if the game needs a subscription or not to play.

EDIT: ie. If you need a sub or not. FF14 & WoW are P2P after initial game purchase.

WoW: You are free to play up to level 20. You need to buy the expansion to access high level content in WoW AND you need a sub, BUT WoW unlocks everything - all abilities, all classes, etc. Everyone on same level with tokens, rep, etc.

RIFT: You are free to play up to level 65 and that is basically a grind as all the good stuff is not used (the old raids). At 65, you need to buy the expansion to access high level content and to level to 70, but after this, you don't need a sub. If you are planning on doing end-game raiding and not wanting to be at a disadvantage compared to other raiders, you NEED to buy all the soul packs as these allow arguably the best soul builds / talent tree builds (roles) in the game, the subscription, however, is not so essential, but it cuts out grind (insane grind) as there are 40% more tokens, loot rolls, rep, etc. It is now also P2W as you can buy extra loot rolls to increase your chance for gear drops, but apparently only in LFR (there are no raids)

As it stands right now, there is no endgame / PvE competitive content in RIFT, so even with the option to buy bonus loot rolls in LFR, I don't think they can say anything is P2W as there is nothing (currently) to win. Even 1/2 the warfronts/battlegrounds are STILL disabled.

RIFT is Free to Play from level 1 to 65.
RIFT is now buy to play from 65 to 70: http://www.polygon.com/2016/8/30/127...s-trion-worlds
RIFT still remains considerably more expensive than other games of the genre now - if you're a raider - raiding, however, is pretty much not the main focus any more. Neither is PvP.

Warcraft is B2P from 21 to max level with sub required to access your level 21+ characters.

Wildstar & STO (and Tera - not played in a while) is Free to Play for all content, but the sub certainly helps a lot for leveling (Tera&Wildstar).

Elder Scrolls online is Buy to Play with the sub being so useful (crafting bag space) that I always stay subbed, but you don't lose your stuff or access to characters if you unsub. You can fully participate. Also, after 9 months of sub, you will have enough crowns to buy all the DLC's (you get US$15 in crowns for each month subbed). Morrowind will a few months after launch become the base-game. I don't see Zenimax doing it any other way. Same as GW: Heart of Thorns will become the base when the new GW2 expansion releases.

Guildwars is Free to Play in all the old content, but the very latest expansion (and a class) is behind a Buy to Play purchase. You can level with each other as all the zones are auto-leveled. There is no level-increase with the purchase of the new expansion, just a new class.

So, there you go. All this talk and the fact is, the starter pack buys you 2 x items that together give you a 15% XP boost, a mount and a 7 day subscription.

[Jtbrig7390]

Warcraft is B2P from 21 to max level with sub required to access your level 21+ characters.

Not to nit pick but WoW is P2P not B2P. Guild Wars 2 is B2p, As in you buy the game and you play it forever. Because of WoW's sub it is P2p (Pay 2 Play) because you must keep paying to keep playing.

Other then that the rest of ur post is 100% and I know I'm nit picking so take no offence.

At this point, I really don't see why we have a rift subforum. There is only one poster here who praise Rift and the rest of us who wish for it to improve but don't see it happening. Rift has crossed the line of no return sadly.

Its sad to see such a solid MMO fall so hard.

[theWocky]

Not to nit pick but WoW is P2P not B2P. Guild Wars 2 is B2p, As in you buy the game and you play it forever. Because of WoW's sub it is P2p (Pay 2 Play) because you must keep paying to keep playing.

You are, of course, 100% correct. It's B2P and then P2P a sub to play.

[Slipmat]

the RIFT starter pack DOES NOT include the new expansion / content page. It's basically a 15% XP boost.

Feel free to point out where i said in my initial starter post i ever alluded to the fact that it included Starfall Prophecy, especially as i specifically said:

Rift is absolutely and totally free to play with no content locked to you all the way to level 65, sometimes you could do with a little booster pack

u NEED to buy all the soul packs as these allow arguably the best soul builds / talent tree builds (roles) in the game

I already asked other concerned posters to point out any fight which cannot be done without a new soul, any fight at all, guess what, no reply.

It is now also P2W as you can buy extra loot rolls to increase your chance for gear drops

Explain how it is "P2W" when everyone, including totally F2P players get these charges 'recharged' once a week and get extra on the 15th day of each month in the rewards Calendar.

As it stands right now, there is no endgame / PvE competitive content in RIFT

You conveniently forgot the important word 'currently' in there, Intrepid Rise of the Phoenix will be open for testing on PTS this Monday, will go Live before Update 4.2 and there's a totally new raid coming later in the Summer, beats having to wait two years for a new raid then get one boss i guess.

Elder Scrolls online is Buy to Play with the sub being so useful (crafting bag space) that I always stay subbed, but you don't lose your stuff or access to characters if you unsub

This one i will need clarification on, don't you lose access to all DLC content if you unsub if you didn't directly buy the DLCs from the store? correct me on this please, you stop paying Patron in Rift and you lose....nothing, zip, nada, zero, not a sausage.

Guildwars is Free to Play in all the old content, but the very latest expansion (and a class) is behind a Buy to Play purchase

I already pointed out the restrictions in place for GW2 if you play as a totally F2P player but here you go again:

https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us...-Free-Core-HoT

Not even a simple bone like a daily log in gift.

So, anything i missed to counter your usual non biased version of Rift?

[theWocky]

Ah, Trion's self-appointed marketing guy returns in defense of a failing game.

Feel free to point out where i said in my initial starter post i ever alluded to the fact that it included Starfall Prophecy,

For people reading these masses of pages, I don't want them to think that this starter pack includes Starfall Prophecy. It does not.

I was pointing out that so much crap has been spoken here, people may miss the original post and because everyone's talking about everything else BUT the 5 euro starter pack and you are going off in all directions. It's basically a 15% xp boost.

Explain how it is "P2W" when everyone, including totally F2P players get these charges 'recharged' once a week and get extra on the 15th day of each month in the rewards Calendar.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO SPEND MORE MONEY CAN BUY MORE CHARGES FROM THE CASH STORE IE. YOU CAN PAY TO WIN.

I already asked other concerned posters to point out any fight which cannot be done without a new soul, any fight at all, guess what, no reply.

Once again, Trion Marketing Deflection. As I said, there are probably no raiders left, but you are once again being disingenuous here (what a surprise) as I (and others) clearly stated that for OPTIMAL raid performance, these souls are needed.

You conveniently forgot the important word 'currently' in there,

Because, that would be redundant - as per my quote (that you actually quoted): "right now" means "current"?

As it stands right now, there is no endgame / PvE competitive content in RIFT,

I actually thought my post was a pretty fair assessment of the game right now (ie. currently)

As for the GW2 comparison I don't get it, the B2P option is pretty good - no sub needed. I specifically stated it's B2P with no sub needed. You don't get it - I'm not arguing business models. I was clarifying them.

I don't play F2P ever. I don't recommend anyone play F2P. All F2P is crap in my eyes. I'd rather sub or B2P and not have grind, not have P2W. I'd rather sub and have regular, polished content. Hence, why I recommend B2P or sub-based games only so you don't have the P2W elements that Trion RIFT is forced into due to desperate attempts to stay afloat financially. The current state of their apparently incompetent, always behind schedule and "we'll fix that in the next hot-fix" dev team is pretty much testament to this - no resources due to no money.

Stop me if this sounds familiar - RIFT: New Feature touted in patch notes! Cross-Shard Trading - 3 days later, disabled due to it causing servers to crash. Weeks later, still disabled. Dungeons still crash on certain group configurations. Touted expansion activity Fortress Siege lags so bad the event fails. Half of all Warfronts disabled. oh, yeah - almost all boss voice actors sound like they're gargling something in a bathroom when speaking with pitch merely adjusted from gargling chipmunk on the one side to retarded gargling giant on the other. Customer Support that takes a week to respond to a ticket. /facepalm As I said, "B" team of devs on Trion RIFT at the moment.

[Slipmat]

Ah, Trion's self-appointed marketing guy returns in defense of a failing game.

Except it has been pointed out by me numerous times that i have absolutely no affiliation to Trion, have never contacted any Trion employee, except customer support, don't chat/talk/skype/hang out in Discord with any Trion employee but keep bashing people who play and enjoy their MMO game(s) of choice, makes you look really professional.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO SPEND MORE MONEY CAN BUY MORE CHARGES FROM THE CASH STORE IE. YOU CAN PAY TO WIN.

Again, i'll point it out to you seeing as your tears of indignation might have blurred your vision, everyone gets these charges once a week, every week on reset day, Wednesday, and guess what? there's a cap of 100 charges so you can't just keep stockpiling them, so explain to us all again how having something that everyone gets for free is P2W?

I (and others) clearly stated that for OPTIMAL raid performance, these souls are needed

Ah, so now it's changed from 'needed' to 'optimal' nice deflection, so the optional souls, of which 8 out of 11 in the four main Archetypes are free, are not even needed, colour me shocked.

I don't play F2P ever. I don't recommend anyone play F2P. All F2P is crap in my eyes.

So because all F2P is crap to you and you don't ever play F2P you go on this personal crusade to inform the masses of your duty to preach on the evils of F2P, what a humanitarian, thanks for confirming your true agenda.

[Eleccybubb]

Not to nit pick but WoW is P2P not B2P. Guild Wars 2 is B2p, As in you buy the game and you play it forever. Because of WoW's sub it is P2p (Pay 2 Play) because you must keep paying to keep playing.

Other then that the rest of ur post is 100% and I know I'm nit picking so take no offence.

At this point, I really don't see why we have a rift subforum. There is only one poster here who praise Rift and the rest of us who wish for it to improve but don't see it happening. Rift has crossed the line of no return sadly.

Its sad to see such a solid MMO fall so hard.

Pretty much this. As I said I spoke to Chaud about inactive forums and he says it's on his to do list but very low priority and that he would need to take a good look at the sub forums first to see what he and the other admins deem as inactive.

I remember when Rift was pumping out amazing content on a pretty decent schedule. Now it's really low quality content every few months. What did 4.1 bring? LFR and the Eternal Weapons Quest. 4 bosses and a grind.

[Lathais]

Ah, so now it's changed from 'needed' to 'optimal' nice deflection, so the optional souls, of which 8 out of 11 in the four main Archetypes are free, are not even needed, colour me shocked.

I said it before and I'll say it again, from prior experience in the game as a raid leader, you always bring the guy with the better souls over the guy without them when composing your raid party. Sure, by the game mechanics it's possible without them, but good luck getting invited to a progression raid group without them.

[Eleccybubb]

I said it before and I'll say it again, from prior experience in the game as a raid leader, you always bring the guy with the better souls over the guy without them when composing your raid party. Sure, by the game mechanics it's possible without them, but good luck getting invited to a progression raid group without them.

Can't get invited to progression raid if there is no progression raid!

[dope_danny]

Pretty much this. As I said I spoke to Chaud about inactive forums and he says it's on his to do list but very low priority and that he would need to take a good look at the sub forums first to see what he and the other admins deem as inactive.

I remember when Rift was pumping out amazing content on a pretty decent schedule. Now it's really low quality content every few months. What did 4.1 bring? LFR and the Eternal Weapons Quest. 4 bosses and a grind.

Yeah i know the feeling. There was a time i adored rift, using the apps on my phone to get in game items constantly, dicking around in dimensions, raiding, tinkering with souls and macros to make some ridiculous tempest stuff. Now i check up on it still but its like checking that your shed full of beloved knick nacks is still on fire and burning down.

At this point the Rift section is almost entirely Slipmat marketing to nobody but himself as though he actually believes anyone thinks he is sincere and not a blind shill at best and actual paid trion marketer at worst and getting super mad that nobody is biting. Its an entire sub forum for one person. Redundant ain't the word.

[Eleccybubb]

Yeah i know the feeling. There was a time i adored rift, using the apps on my phone to get in game items constantly, dicking around in dimensions, raiding, tinkering with souls and macros to make some ridiculous tempest stuff. Now i check up on it still but its like checking that your shed full of beloved knick nacks is still on fire and burning down.

At this point the Rift section is almost entirely Slipmat marketing to nobody but himself as though he actually believes anyone thinks he is sincere and not a blind shill at best and actual paid trion marketer at worst and getting super mad that nobody is biting. Its an entire sub forum for one person. Redundant ain't the word.

Tempest! That's the other fucking class I was thinking of. Holy crap they were disgraceful on launch.

[theWocky]

So because all F2P is crap to you and you don't ever play F2P you go on this personal crusade to inform the masses of your duty to preach on the evils of F2P, what a humanitarian, thanks for confirming your true agenda.

Um, no - that's my personal opinion. I don't think everyone thinks F2P is crap. Wildstar is not bad, but the F2P still makes me (personally) suspicious - in the long term. Games usually go from B2P with sub /or without to F2P and then P2W elements get added when that fails.

It's pretty much the greatest concern of any F2P game by the community that plays it that it may go P2W at any time. This is not usually the case with subscription or B2P games as these indicate a healthy game. RIFT has now taken this path.

There is a reason that GW2, WoW, FF14 and ESO are pretty much the top MMORPG's. Those models appear to support their quality and longevity. They also obviously have better management, dev team than RIFT (currently) does. It helps they have a strong IP behind them too. Didn't help Lord of the Rings though. Star Trek's IP appears to have worked for them. The planet-side combat is clunky, but it's doing okay.
Secret World is going to be something to watch as well - and that's a sort of "quasi" IP - it steals from real world myths & legends.

Guild Wars / ESO have really good B2P with cash store. ESO has arguably the most fair "loot box" system as well as (optional) subscription system there is - they give you US$15 in credits/crowns each month. I'm still suspicious and wary when a cash store becomes too prevalent in a game.

I have no agenda. You're once again acting disingenuous. You know I was a longtime supporter of RIFT. My personal perception of Trion's dishonesty, misrepresentation, buggy, unpolished products changed my opinion of them. RIFT, is just by its track record a good argument for a failed/confused company which is now embracing more and more of a Pay to Win business model.

At the rate RIFT is going, Trion will probably soon sell it to Daybreak Games - that's where all the terminally ill MMORPG's go to die.

- - - Updated - - -

At this point the Rift section is almost entirely Slipmat marketing to nobody but himself as though he actually believes anyone thinks he is sincere and not a blind shill at best and actual paid trion marketer at worst and getting super mad that nobody is biting. Its an entire sub forum for one person. Redundant ain't the word.

That's 100% the truth.

[StrawberryZebra]

I don't play F2P ever. I don't recommend anyone play F2P. All F2P is crap in my eyes.

If you move out of the MMO space, there are plenty of games doing free to play right. Not only the big names like LoL and Dota, but there's also Hearthstone, Paladins, Warframe... The model itself is proven to be sucessful across a variety of genres and platforms.

Just because Trion really screwed up their free to play model doesn't mean that everyone else does. Trions mistake was failing to adapt their game around their new payment model, the most sucessful free to plays all make sure they build the game around the model from the outset. Trion obviously couldn't with Rift, but just assumed that making the switch would net them tonnes of money with very little extra work required. They were very wrong about that, and when they got their first major chance to restructure the game around it, the launch of Nightmare Tide, we got Earrings and PayWall: Water.

They've gradually moved the model to cater towards their whales more and more, without realising that they're pricing their other potential customers out of the market. Even with it's new pricing, spending £5 in Hearthstone gets me 2 card packs and an Arena Ticket. £5 worth of spending in Rift gets me what.. A single lockbox? One of those spends feels good and nets me at the very least 45 minutes to an hour of fun, the other one feels like hollow gambling.

[theWocky]

If you move out of the MMO space, there are plenty of games doing free to play right. Not only the big names like LoL and Dota, but there's also Hearthstone, Paladins, Warframe... The model itself is proven to be sucessful across a variety of genres and platforms.

To clarify, my opinion is that F2P for MMORPG's is crap (in my opinion). I thought this was implicit as I was on an MMORPG web site, but I understand my use of the word "all" was used far too liberally. All roads seem to eventually lead to P2W in these games. There are a few exceptions. My preference for games in the MMORPG sphere is for B2P and P2P games.

I play War Thunder, Hearthstone, Warframe, etc and I can't fault those models too much.

[intrinsc]

As exciting as the above conversation was to read, my one problem with rift is that for me to get caught up(quit around SL) it would take close to $100. Sure, you can buy souls and expansions with credits that can technically be earned in game via Rex, but that takes way too long and I can't play 16 hours a day doing some sort of grind for that.

[anon5123]

As exciting as the above conversation was to read, my one problem with rift is that for me to get caught up(quit around SL) it would take close to $100. Sure, you can buy souls and expansions with credits that can technically be earned in game via Rex, but that takes way too long and I can't play 16 hours a day doing some sort of grind for that.

Yeah, that's the problem I have with these "f2p" games...yes, you CAN play it without paying, but if you don't pay, you're going to spend a shitload of time grinding and grinding and grinding. The game is designed to be slow and frustrating unless you cough up cash. That's not a good thing.