Why rightwingers are desperate for Sweden to ‘fail’

[Whitedragon]

It literally hasn't. It's stayed pretty much the same since the '90s. If you look at the actual data, rather than your feelings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

The blue line at the top is total crime Almost completely flat. There is no supposed crime wave due to immigration. It literally does not exist, if you look at the data rather than making stuff up.

That doesn't really support your argument considering the other lines actually do shift up and down so if the normal populace is committing less crime then someone has to be committing more of it to compensate.

After second inspection I also feel I should point out your list ends in 2013..... that is grate evidence to support your claims for the 2015 Immigration boom.....

[dd614]

Amazing how a topic like this that's favorable to European leftism is not a "forbidden topic", yet anything a conservative posts gets locked with multiple bans.

[Deleted]

It literally hasn't.

It literally has.



Your linked graph even shows this albeit badly because it's so compressed with the numbers.

[dd614]

It literally hasn't. It's stayed pretty much the same since the '90s. If you look at the actual data, rather than your feelings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

The blue line at the top is total crime Almost completely flat. There is no supposed crime wave due to immigration. It literally does not exist, if you look at the data rather than making stuff up.

Because they reclassify the crimes, you fucking halfwit cunt.

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I hope the Muslims take over Sweden and kill all the Swedish liberals. That'd make my fucking day. Europe as well. Fuck you faggots.

infracted - flaming

[Deleted]

Because they reclassify the crimes, you fucking halfwit cunt.

There's been no reclassification that would be change the numbers in the past 40 years. There's been a 17% increase per capita compared to when I was a kid. For my parents there's been an even bigger increase since there was far less crime in the 60s than when I was born.

http://www.bra.se/download/18.22a717...anm_fr1950.xls

http://countrymeters.info/en/Sweden#...cal_population

Knock yourselves out with maths. If you know how to do maths, you'll see there's an increase in crime. Math is logical. To reject the increase you have to be illogical.

[Ghostpanther]

It literally hasn't. It's stayed pretty much the same since the '90s. If you look at the actual data, rather than your feelings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

The blue line at the top is total crime Almost completely flat. There is no supposed crime wave due to immigration. It literally does not exist, if you look at the data rather than making stuff up.

I see a slight increase in over all crime rate starting in 2008. And it should be noted, the green line, which represents sexual assaults/rapes has shown a rather noticeable increase the last 10 years. With a consistent high % the last 6 years. More than double the numbers it had been for many years.

[Deleted]

I see a slight increase in over all crime rate starting in 2008. And it should be noted, the green line, which represents sexual assaults/rapes has shown a rather noticeable increase the last 10 years. With a consistent high % the last 6 years. More than double the numbers it had been for many years.

You'll also note that the graph is so compressed that it's hard to really see any difference at the top but the difference is there, showing that crime indeed has increased from the 90s until 2013 where it ends.

[Endus]

I see a slight increase in over all crime rate starting in 2008. And it should be noted, the green line, which represents sexual assaults/rapes has shown a rather noticeable increase the last 10 years. With a consistent high % the last 6 years. More than double the numbers it had been for many years.

You'll also need to recognize that there's been measurable increases in reporting rates, and changes in how Sweden tracks/prosecutes certain crimes, both of which have inflated those rates without nearly as much of an actual increase in rate of offense.

Plus, the point wasn't that there weren't some shifts in rates of offense overall, but that there's no massive crime wave that can be directly tied to immigration. Not according to BRA data, at least.

[Deleted]

You'll also need to recognize that there's been measurable increases in reporting rates, and changes in how Sweden tracks/prosecutes certain crimes, both of which have inflated those rates without nearly as much of an actual increase in rate of offense.

Plus, the point wasn't that there weren't some shifts in rates of offense overall, but that there's no massive crime wave that can be directly tied to immigration. Not according to BRA data, at least.

Tilting at strawmen are we? I said it has increased since I was a kid. Your graph shows this, the numbers brå has shows this. To then conclude that immigrants are partially responsible for that increase is only factual with their overrepresentation. Unless you have data that shows that they have a normal or less than normal representation in crime it is safe to say they are a part in this increase.

[Endus]

Tilting at strawmen are we?

Not really, no.

I said it has increased since I was a kid. Your graph shows this, the numbers brå has shows this.

Not in any really appreciable sense, no. That's the issue with your claims. As my prior links clearly showed. The supposed crime wave you're talking about due to immigration is a fantasy. It does not exist. There has been a slow and steady increase in overall crime over the past 30 years, yes. That is not directly attributable to immigration, no. There has been no explosion of crime due to immigration, despite your claims to that effect. The data on this is clear, and completely contradicts that.

[Deleted]

Not really, no.



Not in any really appreciable sense, no. That's the issue with your claims. As my prior links clearly showed. The supposed crime wave you're talking about due to immigration is a fantasy. It does not exist. There has been a slow and steady increase in overall crime over the past 30 years, yes. That is not directly attributable to immigration, no. There has been no explosion of crime due to immigration, despite your claims to that effect. The data on this is clear, and completely contradicts that.

Yes the data is clear. Immigrants are overrepresented and thus are part of this increase. This is logical and is supported by maths. What is illogical is to say they have nothing to do with it when the data shows they're overrepresented. Do you have any data where they are not? If they're overrepresented it's logically and mathematically impossible for them to not be part of the increase.

You are not being logically coherent here.

[Endus]

Yes the data is clear. Immigrants are overrepresented and thus are part of this increase. This is logical and is supported by maths. What is illogical is to say they have nothing to do with it when the data shows they're overrepresented. Do you have any data where they are not?

It's the wrong point of view. The proportion of immigrants who offend may be higher, but it's still a tiny minority, and given that these immigrants don't make up a significant segment of the population to begin with, it doesn't actually have that much effect on the overall crime rate. Other factors are driving the changes.

Let's go straight to BRA again, shall we?

http://www.government.se/articles/20...ime-in-sweden/

Nonetheless, research shows that there is no evidence to indicate that immigration leads to increased crime. Despite the fact that the number of immigrants in Sweden has increased since the 1990s, exposure to violent crimes has declined.

Among other excerpts I could cite.

You're inventing a fantasy that the data does not support.

[Deleted]

It's the wrong point of view. The proportion of immigrants who offend may be higher, but it's still a tiny minority, and given that these immigrants don't make up a significant segment of the population to begin with, it doesn't actually have that much effect on the overall crime rate. Other factors are driving the changes.

Let's go straight to BRA again, shall we?

http://www.government.se/articles/20...ime-in-sweden/

Nonetheless, research shows that there is no evidence to indicate that immigration leads to increased crime. Despite the fact that the number of immigrants in Sweden has increased since the 1990s, exposure to violent crimes has declined.

Among other excerpts I could cite.

You're inventing a fantasy that the data does not support.

You can't seriously quote that. They've listed myths in the past that were debunked but still kept them on the page. Erik Ullenhag received a nick for doing so.

That's also not brå.

Don't make up significant part? What world do you live in? We have almost 20% immigrants.

[Endus]

You can't seriously quote that. They've listed myths in the past that were debunked but still kept them on the page.

So I see we've moved from "the government data says so" to "the government's lying to everyone". I'm really not interested in entertaining conspiracy theories.

[Deleted]

So I see we've moved from "the government data says so" to "the government's lying to everyone". I'm really not interested in entertaining conspiracy theories.

Brå is not the government. You linked to the government. It's not a conspiracy theory. You're just uneducated about erik myten ullenhag, to be expected when you don't know anything about swedish politics, culture in the parties(read knapptryckarkompaniet if you want some insight) or the politicians. He denied it when confronted about it. The page has been used to spread misinformation so I have no reason to trust it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130427....se/sb/d/17468

2 is a lie by him

7 is a lie by him.

13 is a lie by him.

14 is a lie by him.

Then they added more

https://web.archive.org/web/20140719....se/sb/d/17468

16 is a lie, there's never been much support fir taking more.

19 is a lie.

So, tell me why I should trust them this time around.
@GoblinP

[Dangg]

Skype is Swedish? Never woudl have guessed.

[Allybeboba]

It literally hasn't. It's stayed pretty much the same since the '90s. If you look at the actual data, rather than your feelings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

The blue line at the top is total crime Almost completely flat. There is no supposed crime wave due to immigration. It literally does not exist, if you look at the data rather than making stuff up.

That graph doesn't seem to be scaled properly. It is very deceiving.
Not that I am disagreeing with your point. Which seems to be that it is only people's perception that a certain group of people are accountable for the increase in crime. Which, in this particular case, is untrue.

[Deleted]

Canada is a world leader in refugee intake. Get your facts straight. How many other countries fly in tens of thousands of refugees?

yes a country of 30 million taking in 25 thousand refugees.
So stronk.
multiply by 30 for your Swedish number.

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So, tell me why I should trust them this time around.
@GoblinP

Because you are gullible?
I could go back in my post history for my debunking of those stats.

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So I see we've moved from "the government data says so" to "the government's lying to everyone". I'm really not interested in entertaining conspiracy theories.

yeah because the government never massages its message to cast the best light on themselves.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned this already on the 17 pages of comments, but I still find it quite funny that "lefties" campaign for muslims. The same muslims who hate homosexuals and jews just as much (or even more) as european "neonazis" do. And the same muslims who treat their donkies and goats better than their women. Or getting oppressed by Islam is the new liberalism, because "as long as we can oppose the right wing, we'll accept anything and everything" ?

And modern day liberals wonder why they're often considered brainless.

Also, I dare every liberal to try to convince victims of muslims (raped girls), or the friends and relatives of the victims to accept muslims. Just be sure you record and upload your attempt, I'd like to see your teeth kicked in.

[Ghostpanther]

Not by any metrics I've seen. It usually scores extremely low compared to all other modern western nations when stuff is measured such as:
- happiness
- quality of life
- freedom
- access to education
- access to healthcare
- absence of crime

etc.

Depends a lot on where you live in the US. The US is a pretty large country. Close to the same size and population of Europe. You are not saying there is no difference in the metrics you listed across Europe?