1. #3421
    Scarab Lord Wries's Avatar
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    I read the notes and get so depressed by the changes overall. It's mostly a list of nerfs`in order to bring in some rotation predictability. All because some artist is so proud over the roll the bones animation and can't just admit that the ability needs to go?

    How about _at least_ making a system so that the rogue can decide when RtB will provide more than one buff? Like.. I don't know.. a button on a cooldown?

    I want back WoD combat spec so bad

  2. #3422
    you live in your ass?

    Outlaw will never be better than Sin ... sadly ...

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-04-16 at 04:51 AM.

  3. #3423
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuskchi View Post
    you live in your ass?

    Outlaw will never be better than Sin ... sadly ...
    It was when legion released. It's possible to beat equally geared sin rogues even now, as outlaw(especially with the new traits). Albeit you need luck and legendaries on your side.

    If you think all they've done is nerf outlaw on the ptr then you're misreading and/or thinking of these changes in a vacuum as compared to live. Not to mention forgetting about blizzards ptr process.

    What's likely to happen is that outlaw variance will go waaaay down, possibly down to a bit higher than assassination variance.
    We'll probably see all three specs closer than ever before (again).

    You go on thinking it's impossible though.

  4. #3424
    Outlaw PTR changes once the saber slash bug is fixed is going to show how the devs don't even play test specs. By all indications it is going to be worse than live client.

    Basically you are still going to fish for True Bearing or Broadsides now. Buried Treasure, Jolly Roger, Shark Infested Waters and Grande Melee are not worth keeping as single buffs if we are being objectively honest.

  5. #3425
    Deleted
    After getting the Loaded dice trait its actually starting to feel that Outlaw is pretty ok and Roll the bones overhaul might not be needed. The chances of rolling decently have improved greatly. But in the long run True bearing is still a problem.

    I like the solution of making True bearing baseline as a weaker version and replacing it with another buff in the dice. That would make a small impact to gameplay but great impact to Roll the bones rng. The other buffs can be balanced with each other but True bearing is kinda hard and it interacts so strongly with other buffs.

  6. #3426
    The TB nerf alone might make it worth less to keep rerolling on its own.
    Marked for Death should be baseline and replaced with another 100 talent so the people who want to spec slice aren't hit twice (No RtB AND no MfD).

    Not to fond of the proposed AR changes, might as well scratch the ability entirely and increase our passive energy regen.
    Last edited by Mascotte; 2017-04-16 at 12:35 AM.

  7. #3427
    Was there nerfs coming for Mantle of Master Assassin and Greenskin's Waterlogged Wristcuffs?

    I somehow ended up with both of them in less than an hour and now i can't remember.
    Last edited by Fxn; 2017-04-16 at 10:38 AM.

  8. #3428
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
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    Will the (hotfix) buffs to outlaw help at all dps wise?

  9. #3429
    Elemental Lord Felfaadaern Darkterror's Avatar
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    Too early to judge PTR changes as regards to DPS numbers. Right now it's all about making the spec flow, freeing up more finishers for RT and BtE instead of RtB. DPS can be adjusted easily up or down and will be as Blizz does their tuning passes. Yes, I'm aware that our overall DPS on Live could use a boost; I'm just saying the numbers on the PTR shouldn't be our primary concern atm.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  10. #3430
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Will the (hotfix) buffs to outlaw help at all dps wise?
    Outlaw is already,without the hotfixes, the best rogue spec on most fights if played properly ( just look at the NH mythic logs ).

    So yes you should give it a try! Im waiting for my ring/bracer to drop and maybe ill switch.

  11. #3431
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterich View Post
    Outlaw is already,without the hotfixes, the best rogue spec on most fights if played properly ( just look at the NH mythic logs ).

    So yes you should give it a try! Im waiting for my ring/bracer to drop and maybe ill switch.
    Really? Every rogue i have ever seen in NH has been assass but i dont look at logs so im not aware of the full picture.

  12. #3432
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylarking View Post
    Really? Every rogue i have ever seen in NH has been assass but i dont look at logs so im not aware of the full picture.
    if you have a high assa weapon, BiS assa legys there is no way to change "asap" to outlaw.

    The

  13. #3433
    Curios, what logs are showing Outlaw outperforming Assa on most M NH fights?

  14. #3434
    None, if you look at the 99th percentile there are a couple out outlaw rogues with very lucky rolls and fantastic nightblooming fron procs. Anything below the 95th is barely any rogues. Don't trust anyone saying outlaw is so great. It's not.

  15. #3435
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselol View Post
    None, if you look at the 99th percentile there are a couple out outlaw rogues with very lucky rolls and fantastic nightblooming fron procs. Anything below the 95th is barely any rogues. Don't trust anyone saying outlaw is so great. It's not.
    no fakenews please.

    this logs statistics are WITHOUT!!!! the 4% buff, keep that in mind.

    star auger 75perc: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/#boss=1863 outlaw ahead.
    ticho: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/#boss=1871 outlaw ahead
    skorpy: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/#boss=1849 outlaw ahead
    elisande: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/#boss=1872 outlaw ahead
    guldan: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/#boss=1866 outlaw ahead

  16. #3436
    Cherry pick all you want, Outlaw is significantly behind the other two specs overall.

  17. #3437
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Enterich View Post
    Blizzurd logic right here. Thats the exact reason why Outlaw sucks dick. Barely beating one single target spec and horribly losing to another on a cleave fight.... *switches to boss damage* GASP! 80% of other specs performance XD
    Last edited by mmoc2127cc2147; 2017-04-18 at 12:41 PM.

  18. #3438
    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselol View Post
    None, if you look at the 99th percentile there are a couple out outlaw rogues with very lucky rolls and fantastic nightblooming fron procs. Anything below the 95th is barely any rogues. Don't trust anyone saying outlaw is so great. It's not.
    I concur -- In addition, there are only ~450 outlaw parses as opposed to 6.5k from sin. There's too much variance to statistically prove that outlaw surpasses sin in raid conditions. If you work your way up from 10 to 75 percentiles, that's the problem... The deviation from min to max is still there.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
    Last edited by Neuroxxic; 2017-04-18 at 02:00 PM.
    IO / WP

  19. #3439
    Deleted
    Overall combined on all bosses sin is still a bit ahead. But some rogues, especialy outlaws, always see the sky falling no matter what.
    Fact is after 7.2 outlaw is (on high skill levels) competitive again, and after the 4% buff its maybe on line with sin.
    Outlaw is indeed much harder to play then sin.

  20. #3440
    Even if outlaw was ahead, it'd have to be head and shoulders above the other two for me to see it as viable, specifically for any sort of progression. The rng in terms of damage for outlaw not only hurts your rythm, but also can also hurt the rythm of the rest of your raid. If I get a good set of buffs for a set of adds one pull then blow them up and the next pull I'm stuck with trash rolls and do subpar damage to then, it really screws with the raids ability to continously learn from every pull. Outlaw is great for world content and doing some relaxing content, but unless RTB is removed, it'll likely never be seen as a viable spec for anything serious.

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