Housing Affordability

[Themanintobuildafire]

so you should live with your parents and save every $ untill you will be able to take loan

i see a lot of shaming for people who still live with parents when its simply wrong - beggars cant be choosers - instead paying someone else live with parents for couple of years untill you will buy your own place - or build their home bigger and live on 2nd floor while they are below - its not a shame - stupid people make it a shame.

I have no problem with the concept of living with one's parents. I did it for a year when I returned to university in my 30s. My daughter is welcome to live with my wife and I until she feels the need to move out. Why not?

The concept of leaving home in the West was a good one maybe 200 years ago when land was plentiful and people had like 8 kids...a bit too many to keep around until they were in their 30s, no? That cultural behavior has continued into the present without anyone examining if it still makes sense.

[Vash The Stampede]

so you should live with your parents and save every $ untill you will be able to take loan

i see a lot of shaming for people who still live with parents when its simply wrong - beggars cant be choosers - instead paying someone else live with parents for couple of years untill you will buy your own place - or build their home bigger and live on 2nd floor while they are below - its not a shame - stupid people make it a shame.

A lot of Europeans are doing it, especially the Eastern Europeans. In USA, we live in a culture where you're encouraged to live by yourself, or at least not with your parents. I've seen people go homeless, and asked why they aren't living with their parents? The answer is usually vague and stupid. Oh and they usually still own the latest iPhone, somehow.

[stabetha]

I don't really think this addresses the problem. The issue is basically a supply and demand situation. Supply is low and demand is high, the ideal solution would be to up supply. Fixed prices I think would worsen the situation.

but the government is the answer to everything!!!!!1!!

[zenkai]

I do not know if this is a Major Issue in the country where you live in.

But in the largest cities in Australia like Sydney & Melbourne , younger Millennials are starting to blame older generations for them not being
able to afford a house.

In Australia, this has become a big Political Issue.
The Elephant in the room is - immigration. So housing is a question of supply & demand.

I believe Canada has been through this, but lots of cashed up immigrants from China have decided to call Australia home.

And the Chinese especially in Sydney are not only purchasing the majority of new apartments but lots of existing dwellings as well.
In fact, Australian housing for sale is on a few Chinese language real estate websites.

Owning your own home is great. Its an asset , it gives you stability and you still have a large Mortgage to pay.

I currently rent my apartment and I am happy.

However, I believe that in some countries like Germany & the Netherlands, that renting a Home is favorable more than owning a home, as it allows
the individual to invest their money into other business ventures etc.

Younger generations blaming older generations for their current misfortune really irks me.
It is the "I am a victim" mentality.

Funny thing is though, lots of Millennials like Immigration.. Its the diversity thing .

From news article quote:

I don't see a future, even in my forties, where home ownership and economic stability are a reality. It is scary, and it is my reality.
And the generations before me don't give a damn.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ill-ne...14-gvl0rj.html

In the US, housing in high cost areas is pretty unfordable to most young people but out in rural areas it's very affordable.

[Gmollster11]

Considering that getting a mortgage is much more difficult for the current generation than previous generations, and that the value of houses has skyrocketed whilst wages haven't, I feel that people have a right to feel pissed off- aspects of live that were once considered a given for previous generations, work hard, getting a decent job and buy a house, this no longer applies. It isn't inconceivable that we will end up in a situation where the home owning demographic will be a minority, this is bad news for society, there are very good reasons for trying to ensure that everyone not only has access to secure accommodation, but that if you put the work in, you can get your own patch, a place to call yours. This becoming more and more difficult for this generation isn't some fabrication by butt hurt millennials, it is a verifiable fact.

There are many criticisms you could levy against my generation in general, but this isn't a valid one.

The fact that you feel entitled to housing is telling. You aren't.

[Celista]

The fact that you feel entitled to housing is telling. You aren't.

Yeah let's just have everyone work 24/7 while homeless until they're dead. #MAGA

- - - Updated - - -

A big reason why people aren't really sympathetic to complaints about housing prices is precisely because of the impression, rightly or wrongly, that it's mostly a product of young people flooding into cities more for the social life than for job opportunities, since the latter obviously aren't nearly as plentiful in big cities as everyone thinks or else cost of living wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

I agree that jobs aren't necessarily plentiful in big cities, but based on the two serious job searches I have done during my life I would definitely say that urban areas have a LOT more job openings than rural areas, especially for college graduates.

I would love to take a job out here in a smaller community but work for now keeps me in Portland. Moving to a rural area also limits your upward mobility, if you want to take a promotion with another organization. Unless you're willing to move a lot.

Housing in rural areas is also an issue for new grads who can't afford a home. Rentals are usually sparse and if they are available they are usually home rentals (versus apartment rentals), rental rates here in Oregon and Washington aren't that much better outside of Portland. You'll get more space but the price is essentially the same, with *some* exceptions.

[Vash The Stampede]

but the government is the answer to everything!!!!!1!!

The government is the reason why the housing issue even began. Bush or Clinton signed a law that allowed banks to give loans to people that didn't have credit and even a job, which caused the housing crisis of 2008. This fuck up was felt all over the world, even to this day. And of course, the law was influenced by corporations who wanted to make more money.

The fact that you feel entitled to housing is telling. You aren't.

About the same time we get Basic Income, I can see the government providing free housing and free food. Once automation takes away enough jobs, this is the only course of action. But the kind of housing they provide will be apartment buildings, not houses.

[kamuimac]

About the same time we get Basic Income, I can see the government providing free housing and free food. Once automation takes away enough jobs, this is the only course of action. But the kind of housing they provide will be apartment buildings, not houses.

i think you are optimist about apartments - watch some documents on so called "ant tribe" in chine and condiditions on which they live - most of them live in tiny 1 room no bathrom condos joned togehter. this is much closer to "free housing" that we will see

same with basic income - people think it will be leting them live on decent condiditons - it wont - it will supply them most basic nesesities - imagine trying to live with 400-500 $ a month now - that how it will be when all people would take basic income.

[Rasulis]

Yeah let's just have everyone work 24/7 while homeless until they're dead. #MAGA

- - - Updated - - -


I agree that jobs aren't necessarily plentiful in big cities, but based on the two serious job searches I have done during my life I would definitely say that urban areas have a LOT more job openings than rural areas, especially for college graduates.

I would love to take a job out here in a smaller community but work for now keeps me in Portland. Moving to a rural area also limits your upward mobility, if you want to take a promotion with another organization. Unless you're willing to move a lot.

Housing in rural areas is also an issue for new grads who can't afford a home. Rentals are usually sparse and if they are available they are usually home rentals (versus apartment rentals), rental rates here in Oregon and Washington aren't that much better outside of Portland. You'll get more space but the price is essentially the same, with *some* exceptions.

I am a Structural/Geotechnical/Mining Engineer specializing in large civil construction. There is absolutely nothing for me in the rural area. Not consistently anyway. All the big engineering and construction companies (basically our clients) are headquartered in major metropolitan areas.

My wife and I do live in a rural area. We like it. Peaceful, quiet, the green is easy on the eyes, no light or air pollution, big lot, adjacent to the national forest, good well, etc. We have two great horned owls as neighbors. There is a bone graveyard of all the animals that they kill under the tree where they made their nest. This year we buried two owl chicks that got blown off the nest during high wind. We have bunnies, wild turkeys, humming birds, starlings, foxes, and at least two murders of crows. I have had to remove dead birds left by the crows in the bird baths twice this year.

Now the bad. My commute time is almost 2 hours every day. At least I don’t have traffic and I drive a work truck. Most of the commute is done on winding country road. I actually like the drive. It is very peaceful and calming. Except between October and February when it gets dark earlier. Driving that road in the dark is not fun.

My wife commute is worse. The majority of her clients are selling or buying properties along the coast. She tries to do most of the work from home, but she still has to do open houses and meet with clients to show houses. Each round trip is at least 3 hours without traffic. At least in San Diego she can still arrange her schedule around the rush hours.

We used to go out every weekend for dinner and shows. Now, if she does not have an open house, we just stay home. The idea of hitting the road is just too exhausting. Our weekends are boring now. We do grocery shopping, clean house, yard work, hiking & biking (mostly me), and watch TV (mostly her). We do try new recipes every weekend.

I think my parents lead a more adventurous live than we do.

[Demon of Truth]

In response to the original post:

The number of people immigrating to other nations is almost always a tiny percent of said nation's total population growth. The primary contributor to population growth is the birth rate of said nation's citizens. If your having trouble housing your population, blaming foreigners and immigrants for your troubles is incorrect.

Please stop paying attention to politicians who are blaming all your problems on immigrants and foreigners. Said politicians are simplifying an insanely complicated issue to gain power by appealing to an inherent fear of the "other". The political tactic of blaming things on foreigners to gain political, economic, military power was ancient when Rome was newborn. Please stop falling for it. Politicians who spout this nonsense never have a plan that actually addresses these issues, they only make the problems worse.

Solutions for not enough housing: Invest in the creation of affordable housing for your population. Also more roads, levies, bridges, dams, highways, railroads, schools, universities, hospitals etc. Population is POWER, plain and simple. Immigration is a good thing and should be encouraged in almost all circumstances. Higher populations means more industrial, agricultural, scientific and military output.

I'm a Political Scientist and I approve this message.

[Vash The Stampede]

i think you are optimist about apartments - watch some documents on so called "ant tribe" in chine and condiditions on which they live - most of them live in tiny 1 room no bathrom condos joned togehter. this is much closer to "free housing" that we will see

The moment the government needs to supply housing on a massive scale is when they commandeer existing apartment buildings and distribute them accordantly. Even if they force people to live together in a 1 room no bathroom condo, it's still better than living in the streets.

same with basic income - people think it will be leting them live on decent condiditons - it wont - it will supply them most basic nesesities - imagine trying to live with 400-500 $ a month now - that how it will be when all people would take basic income.

Probably Europe would start off with €400-€500, but not in America. The events I see leading up to basic income would be dire. The moment they put basic income to vote, it'll fail horribly. At this moment a good deal of Americans are homeless and on the streets. But violent protests will change the politicians minds and vote again, but this time passing with the intention of public housing and public food. Giving someone $400-$500 a month won't do them any good, but give them free housing and free food as well, then the $400-$500 will go a long way.

I'm talking maybe in another 10-20 years from now, even though the effects will be felt with 5 years from now. But the government would have made some changes before then to prevent the need for basic income. Reducing the work week to 30-35 hours, as well as increasing minimum wage would delay this. But automation is inevitable, and at some point we'll need to do basic income, basic housing, and basic food. What we're dealing with at the moment is a run away supply and demand system, which sounds good for selling Xbox Ones and TVs, but not for a necessity like a home.

[tehealadin]

The fact that you feel entitled to housing is telling. You aren't.

What? Entitled? Please quote the parts of my post where entitlement is expressed. It is in the national interest to ensure that the population has access to secure accommodation, the benefits are so obvious, I shouldn't need to spell them out. What did I say that was wrong? Or even dodgy on any kind of intellectual ground? Pointing out that getting onto the housing market is more difficult now than it ever has been is hardly entitlement.

And actually, in the UK, I am entitled to housing.

[Rasulis]

The government probably is the answer to housing issues, only on a state level. It seems most of the problems can largely be solved by reducing zoning restrictions. This likely sounds libertarian (it is a form of deregulation) but would largely be motivated by reducing the importance of land assets as investment and reaffirming their importance as part of the social contract (a social democrat approach). It marries the left and the right and screws investors which just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy

Most localities realized the problem and are trying to address it. I do think that their approach is wrong. The solutions that I have seen primarily consist of trying to subsidize low income & homeless people. However, the middle class & first time home buyer tend to be neglected. I am sure helping the homeless is a noble cause, but these young people are the ones that actually drive the economy. We need them as employees, employers, innovators and customers. If the localities don’t start accommodating them, they are going to loose these young people.

[Alydael]

I do not know if this is a Major Issue in the country where you live in.

But in the largest cities in Australia like Sydney & Melbourne , younger Millennials are starting to blame older generations for them not being
able to afford a house.

In Australia, this has become a big Political Issue.
The Elephant in the room is - immigration. So housing is a question of supply & demand.

I believe Canada has been through this, but lots of cashed up immigrants from China have decided to call Australia home.

And the Chinese especially in Sydney are not only purchasing the majority of new apartments but lots of existing dwellings as well.
In fact, Australian housing for sale is on a few Chinese language real estate websites.

Owning your own home is great. Its an asset , it gives you stability and you still have a large Mortgage to pay.

I currently rent my apartment and I am happy.

However, I believe that in some countries like Germany & the Netherlands, that renting a Home is favorable more than owning a home, as it allows
the individual to invest their money into other business ventures etc.

Younger generations blaming older generations for their current misfortune really irks me.
It is the "I am a victim" mentality.

Funny thing is though, lots of Millennials like Immigration.. Its the diversity thing .

From news article quote:

I don't see a future, even in my forties, where home ownership and economic stability are a reality. It is scary, and it is my reality.
And the generations before me don't give a damn.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/ill-ne...14-gvl0rj.html

It is an issue where I live. Most of the houses in my city are over a million dollars easy. The people that live there can't come close to affording them. They are mostly bought by people from out of town that have money then move over (for a new job or something).

You would think that people would be screaming bloody murder over this, but there is a strange acceptance about it.

[Seirith]

I am a Structural/Geotechnical/Mining Engineer specializing in large civil construction. There is absolutely nothing for me in the rural area. Not consistently anyway. All the big engineering and construction companies (basically our clients) are headquartered in major metropolitan areas.

My wife and I do live in a rural area. We like it. Peaceful, quiet, the green is easy on the eyes, no light or air pollution, big lot, adjacent to the national forest, good well, etc. We have two great horned owls as neighbors. There is a bone graveyard of all the animals that they kill under the tree where they made their nest. This year we buried two owl chicks that got blown off the nest during high wind. We have bunnies, wild turkeys, humming birds, starlings, foxes, and at least two murders of crows. I have had to remove dead birds left by the crows in the bird baths twice this year.

Now the bad. My commute time is almost 2 hours every day. At least I don’t have traffic and I drive a work truck. Most of the commute is done on winding country road. I actually like the drive. It is very peaceful and calming. Except between October and February when it gets dark earlier. Driving that road in the dark is not fun.

My wife commute is worse. The majority of her clients are selling or buying properties along the coast. She tries to do most of the work from home, but she still has to do open houses and meet with clients to show houses. Each round trip is at least 3 hours without traffic. At least in San Diego she can still arrange her schedule around the rush hours.

We used to go out every weekend for dinner and shows. Now, if she does not have an open house, we just stay home. The idea of hitting the road is just too exhausting. Our weekends are boring now. We do grocery shopping, clean house, yard work, hiking & biking (mostly me), and watch TV (mostly her). We do try new recipes every weekend.

I think my parents lead a more adventurous live than we do.

Wow...seriously how do you deal with that? Do you live there by choice because you like being rural or because you cannot afford to live closer? I can't imagine spending 4+ hours per day driving to get to and from work.

[Wrecktangle]

Jesus.
Our mortgage payment on our new 3,928sq. Ft home is only $1500
Phoenix Suburb

Definitely depends on where you live and your mortgage terms. One thing a lot of people don't consider when mentioning their mtg payments is their terms. Someone using FHA's 3.5% program is going to have a much higher payment than a couple in a decent suburb who put down 30-50%. I never underwrote homes in AZ so I can't attest to the home values there, but where I live a 4k sqft home is ~750k, upwards to a $1M.

My Uncle is... going to lose his home. He hasn't paid his mortgage for years and owes the bank something like $400k. For whatever reason, they haven't kicked him out yet. The house is literally falling apart, and looks like something from the 60's, not well preserved either. The house is certainly not work $400k either, even in its best condition. For whatever reason, he hasn't left that place. Also, the bank hasn't forcefully removed him. I'd like to see how the bank plans to get back their $400k.

When I looked for cheap homes, I did see a few very cheap homes that were cleaned out. Like plumbing and wiring was removed. The housing crash is indeed still going, they don't want to tell anyone that though. But this is more of a problem for those wanting to live in cities where rent is always a big issue. No matter what, apartments are always in demand. But this maybe also related to the minor recession I think we're in. When the economy slumps, people move into the city, or at least nearer to it.

As a fellow NJ'ian (assuming the better part references the south part ) I can tell you (as a previous mortgage professional) that unless the bank has sold the foreclosed house, which are incredibly hard to sell to begin with, let alone in a market where there are tons of good homes for sale, tons of shit homes, and then a ton of foreclosed ones; he won't be evicted. My S/O's aunt was foreclosed on like 2 years ago maybe? Still lives there because they haven't sold the property.

The problem in my area (Vancouver, Canada) is that it's become an investment game. I have a friend who has a minimum wage job at McDonalds who was approved for a $700k loan to buy a house. And why not? Interest rates are at rock bottom, and the value of houses is going up like 20-30% a year. If he can hold the place for a year and sell it, it'll be like 5-6 times the profit he makes off his job over the same time period.

The problem is that there are so many people doing this that if interest rates go up or the housing market stalls, a huge amount of people will lose their life savings. So the government is in a position where if they do anything serious, it'll hurt a ton of people, but the longer they don't the more people it'll hurt when it the bubble inevitably pops. Pretty much everyone is just hoping that they're not the ones holding the bucket when everything goes to hell.

You know something is out of whack with your housing market when a house that was gutted by a fire and condemned was put on the market for $2 million.

I used to do underwriting residential mortgages in the US, so my knowledge of CA is fairly limited, but with a little bit of research:

Canada's minimum wage is roughly $11.70 (all min wages, then averaged across the entire country). This means that your friend roughly makes ~$25k a year. That means he makes monthly gross of ~$2k. His mortgage payment would be ~$2.7k. There's absolutely 100% no way you get approved based on that, so I think your friend fed you bullshit.

Even if your friend made the highest min wage in Canada, $15 you're talking ~$31k, which is ~$2.6k, which means you're STILL not getting approved. This is assuming he would be putting down 15%, which is ~$100k, not the kind of scratch I'd expect a min wage McDonald employee to have carrying around. If he puts down less (not familiar with down payment requirements of Canada) the payment goes up rather quickly.

Considering that getting a mortgage is much more difficult for the current generation than previous generations, and that the value of houses has skyrocketed whilst wages haven't, I feel that people have a right to feel pissed off- aspects of live that were once considered a given for previous generations, work hard, getting a decent job and buy a house, this no longer applies. It isn't inconceivable that we will end up in a situation where the home owning demographic will be a minority, this is bad news for society, there are very good reasons for trying to ensure that everyone not only has access to secure accommodation, but that if you put the work in, you can get your own patch, a place to call yours. This becoming more and more difficult for this generation isn't some fabrication by butt hurt millennials, it is a verifiable fact.

There are many criticisms you could levy against my generation in general, but this isn't a valid one.

Owning a home is not a right here in the US. Younger people (myself included) need to understand and recognize that. I know for a fact I can't afford a $1M home. The way some people speak is that they're entitled to it and that it's fair they can't afford that home. Try building a budget or changing your lifestyle. You don't need to live in California. You don't need to have the brand new $50k Audi while you're living in a friends garage paying 2k in rent.

Getting a mortgage is stupid easy. Have some assets to your name (hint: cash works), Have a job history (hint: 2yrs in the US), and have good credit (hint: don't buy shit you don't need). None of these things are hard to do if you actually try and don't make stupid decisions.

I had a choice to go to local community college for free (then transferred to local 4yr), or go to U of Miami for $100k a year. I didn't choose to go party (even though I really thought about it), I chose to graduate with as little debt as possible, worked full time, took advantage of tuition reimbursement and paid off my student loans before buying a house. These were good decisions.

Buying a brand new car. Buying an experimental turbo kit for said car. Dating Emily. Those were bad decisions during my younger days.

New Jersey has the highest (or one of) the highest cost of living in the U.S.
Certainly has the highest taxes.

Its a dog shit state to live in, that's for sure. Cannot think of any justifiable
reason why its so fucking expensive here. Even in areas that aren't high-class
or "rich" the cost for a semi-decent apartment is appalling to say the least.

I happen to actually like NJ. I live in the better half (southern), the northern half is much too like NY for me. I like NY for a day, but that's it.

I'm 2 hours from NY, 15 mins from Philly, 1 hour from LBI/WW/OC. That's pretty awesome.

I rented a beautiful wooded development luxury 2br 2ba condo for $1200 a month. That's about average for my area. Very reasonable if you ask me. Great schools, parks, shopping, etc. Traffic kinda sucks, but can't have it all.

I live just outside of Washington, DC and the rent on my 1 bed/1 bath w/ Den (<900sqft) is $2100... my friend living about 45min outside of Kansas City, KS pays $800 for his ENTIRE mortgage on his large, single family home. Feels bad. I know it's all relative but it sucks to think that my HALF of my rent could pay for an entire home w/ a yard somewhere else.

If you live in metro DC area (some of the wealthiest parts of the country btw) and you're a working professional you should be making 6 figures. Either being in sales, consulting, IT for one of the many massive defense/IT/Gov't contracting companies down there. So $2100 shouldn't be too bad. If you're not doing any of that, a smart decision would be to change your lifestyle to better fit your income. Not easy I know, but that's the solution.

Borrowed money from my 401k for my down payment. Just about got that paid back, to myself.

Smart decision. Better to pay interest to yourself than to someone else.

[zEmini]

It is a problem. But do you know why? It isn't all based on greed but the fact that the more the local government tries too fight it, the worse it gets. Punishing Landlords and increasing taxes and fees for development only slows down future development and makes housing more expensive for everyone. But the gov keeps on doing it thinking that it will make a difference. It is becoming a big problem in the Portland area.

To make matters worse, people from California and elsehwere want to move to Portland from more expensive cities. They are willing to pay more which just drives up costs again. Or landlords buy up apartments houses and condos just to flip them. Flippers may increase property value, but at the same time it increases costs on another front.


The only way to fix this issue is to reduce the burden of fees and property taxes.

[Rasulis]

THe issue isn't even the homeless. The issue is building more housing to address shortages so more people can afford it. Which is why I think the solution would be to have more low-rise apartment buildings (or high rise where the building code allows this) by changing zoning restrictions

Actually around 70 - 80% of all new construction in San Diego are apartments. Around 1/10th of those are low income apartments, the rest are high end rentals. Because of record high rent and low occupancy, building apartment rentals is more profitable than building houses/condos/townhouses.

[Priya-tan]

If you live in metro DC area (some of the wealthiest parts of the country btw) and you're a working professional you should be making 6 figures. Either being in sales, consulting, IT for one of the many massive defense/IT/Gov't contracting companies down there. So $2100 shouldn't be too bad. If you're not doing any of that, a smart decision would be to change your lifestyle to better fit your income. Not easy I know, but that's the solution.

Well, I failed to mention I have a 20% discount on rent, so it's really closer to $1700, and I live with my husband so the rent is split. More than affordable, but it's still kind of insane.

so why dont you move somewhere else ? because you dont want to live in some shithole only in decent neibourghood . so thats the cost of it.

Because we don't want to spend 20 hours of my life each month sitting in a car commuting. Living anything more than 10 miles from your job in the DMV area is basically guaranteed 1hr+ commute. I'm not an idiot - I understand that you pay to be closer to the city, etc. I'm just saying the cost of living in my area sucks.

[Vixul]

The rent is too damn high.