[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Deleted]

The cloak is single target only, and lots of work has gone into the APL since that time. There's also no pooling or anything done to maximize the SEF uptime. SimC assumes a linear health decrease for the boss, so the belt is both overvalued and undervalued.

Its not that the sims are particularly wrong, they're just sims, not realistic.

Right, makes sense. So the bracers are at a similar level to the chest for ST? Not trying to be cheeky or anything, just trying to get straight what's best. What selection of legendaries would you recommend for M+? Using KJ's and Sephuz for it atm, but would the bracers be better, particularly bracers and Serenity?

[Gib Lover]

Question because sims and dummies aren't giving me a clear cut answer, if I have lego chest am I supposed to switch to Serenity full stop? Or is WDP still ahead until I get lego wrists? The wording on Peakofserenity is a bit confusing regarding when to make the switch.

[Deleted]

Question because sims and dummies aren't giving me a clear cut answer, if I have lego chest am I supposed to switch to Serenity full stop? Or is WDP still ahead until I get lego wrists? The wording on Peakofserenity is a bit confusing regarding when to make the switch.

My last testing, with DHC and the chest, showed Serenity as worse than WDP, for ST. Not even sure if Serenity/bracers are implemented in SimC yet.

[Gib Lover]

My last testing, with DHC and the chest, showed Serenity as worse than WDP, for ST. Not even sure if Serenity/bracers are implemented in SimC yet.

Hm, I guess I'll buy a couple tomes and give it a try tonight on a ST fight to be sure, but I'm getting wildly inconsistent data with simming and dummies aren't doing me any good with all the cleave.

[Deleted]

Hm, I guess I'll buy a couple tomes and give it a try tonight on a ST fight to be sure, but I'm getting wildly inconsistent data with simming and dummies aren't doing me any good with all the cleave.

Dummies are a pain in the backside with that. I think if you stand at pretty much max melee range on the first dummy in the OH, on that middle tier by the anvil, you don't hit any of the others with WDP. Not found any other dummy that'll not cleave, though.

[Hinalover]

My last testing, with DHC and the chest, showed Serenity as worse than WDP, for ST. Not even sure if Serenity/bracers are implemented in SimC yet.

Keep in mind that there was quite a bit of APL updates to Serenity recently that is not part of the most recent official release of SimC. If you want to use the most recent APL updates, I would suggest using the nightly build

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

As for Serenity, at least for single target, it performs as well; if not better; than WDP (as much as a 1.5% gain over WDP). Serenity tends to have the highest dps POTENTIAL, where-as WDP is the more consistent dps.

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that there was quite a bit of APL updates to Serenity recently that is not part of the most recent official release of SimC. If you want to use the most recent APL updates, I would suggest using the nightly build

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

As for Serenity, at least for single target, it performs as well; if not better; than WDP (as much as a 1.5% gain over WDP). Serenity tends to have the highest dps POTENTIAL, where-as WDP is the more consistent dps.

That was an actual dummy test, as opposed to simming. Because I don't know if I even CAN test that in Simcraft.

As you didn't state it - is Serenity+DHC supported by SimC yet? Feeling like Simcraft's official releases are pretty useless, if I'm honest. Patch comes? Simcraft claims to not be updated (but wait! there's nightly builds updated!). Generally - we've improved APL SO MUCH lately - but you've got to go for the nightly builds. Stuff the release version.

[Hinalover]

To answer your question; Yes, Serenity + DHC is support in the current release version of SimC. The issue is that the APL (the action priority list) has been updated since the release, that improved Serenity + DHC even more to the point that it is as good as WDP + DHC; if not better.

I have no control over when releases happen. Sometimes it's due to a major feature; most times is due to a WoW patch; others is just "it's been a while; maybe we should release a new build." That is why if people want the latest build; we point to the nightly build which; generally; will be every night or early morning.

[Deleted]

To answer your question; Yes, Serenity + DHC is support in the current release version of SimC. The issue is that the APL (the action priority list) has been updated since the release, that improved Serenity + DHC even more to the point that it is as good as WDP + DHC; if not better.

I have no control over when releases happen. Sometimes it's due to a major feature; most times is due to a WoW patch; others is just "it's been a while; maybe we should release a new build." That is why if people want the latest build; we point to the nightly build which; generally; will be every night or early morning.

I probably came across more aggressively than I intended; i do apologize. I can be a grumpy git at times. Does feel a bit crappy to have this major tool not get updates when a lot of work's gone into upgrading it, though; the release builds feel like they're always outdated by a good chunk of work if they only come out just after a major patch and before a big chunk of the APL work is done (and I'm not for one minute claiming it's not a lot of work to do, or that I don't appreciate it!). I honestly had no clue what links you had to the SimC project, other than "probably some"; slightly more of the "it's been a while since a release" releases would always be nice, though.

Thank you for the information, and the Simcraft work.

[Julmara]

dont know if it has been stated or not but thunderfist feels very bad not only does it have a maximum charge of 9 the tooltip is also wrong when you are at 9 stacks it says your next autoattack deals X million naturedmg what is obiously wrong

[Hinalover]

dont know if it has been stated or not but thunderfist feels very bad not only does it have a maximum charge of 9 the tooltip is also wrong when you are at 9 stacks it says your next autoattack deals X million naturedmg what is obiously wrong

- Actually the cap is 10 stacks (9 targets + 1 guarantee)
Secondly the way it works is that
-- when SotWL is used, it snapshots your buffs at the time of the cast and each time it hits a target, it saves the base damage of -Thunderfist into a buff and adds it.
-- So at the end, it will have (math.min(number of targets + 1,10) * Thunderfist base damage at time of SotWL) and that is the amount shown in the Thunderfist buff.
-- When an auto attack hits, it takes the amount from the Thunderfist buff; divide by the current stack size; checks if it crits, and discharges the damage onto your current target. It then removes the amount from the Thunderfist buff and reduces the stack size.
-- So the amount shown in the buff is the total damage excluding crit damage left to discharge.

[Julmara]

so it doesnt suck as much ? than it got a wrong translation in the german buff

[Myta]

so it doesnt suck as much ? than it got a wrong translation in the german buff

It amounts to 3%-4% of my dps, but only on cleave fights which WW has no issue with in the first place. It's alright but pretty underwhelming as a gold talent.

[Deleted]

Urgh. Serenity just feels bad for raids, coming off th back of my first Ser in raids experience in a while. I can accept that it's higher DPS on dummy and in a sim, but really, it seems weaker than SEF in practicality due to how stuff falls. For example, on Krosus, It comes up just as either a bridge break is incoming, or an add wave (and, having high mobility, I get to soak near the back despite being melee). SEF loses nothing to this, due to the charge system. Tich, for example, you want to nuke down the bats ASAP at the start of P2; you've then got a 'lust coming just after the first P2. SEF lets you cover both of these. Then there's how bad it feels manually tab targetting between two elementals on Aluriel, for example, whilst trying to build damn stacks.

Some stuff, like Star, Bot and Trill, for example, it seems good for. But not great everywhere. That flexibility on SEF just feels so much more powerful at times.

[Deleted]

Sometimes I wonder why the heck I'm so bad at this game. I think I'm not entirely abysmal on ST with light movement, like Krosus, but heavy movement like Gul'dan/Elisande? I'm next to useless. Movement just tanks my DPS. I'm keeping HC up when I'm running it (i.e. on non-elisande), but, for example on elisande, that dead time with rings? Shafts my DPS. Tich, I can't run Ser because the bats are flying bloody everywhere in P2 and it takes so long to charge SCK; even with SEF my AE DPS sucks, because I'm bloody well mainly going for boss DPS in terms of gearing, because my DPS sucks so much it's even bloody worse if I don't.

Then I get off days when my DPS literally halves for NO BLOODY REASON (No, I don't have access to the logs). Oh, and even my ST DPS on a good day? Completely sucks relative to similar ilev. Not hitting 1M DPS at around 900ilev (bit under, because I'm forced to wear shitty tier gear for the bonus, not quite worth breaking 4pc, but getting close), let alone the more common 700k on fights like Krosus (i.e. around what I actually sim at). More like bloody 500k on a good day. Then you see people in pugs kicking out 6-700k with 894 and 1 leg and it hits home how damn bad I am. I've got my pick of pretty much every legendary (missing boots as the only useful one), but even so; can't hit hard. Not generally overcapping chi; energy gets overcapped after an EE, but that's to be expected because I'm furiously dumping chi at that point.

Avoiding stuff? I can do that relatively well. Actually hitting harder than a fucking wet noodle? Yeah, bloody right. Having any AoE in a class with excellent AE (outside of M+, where it's okay, I think)? Hahahaha, yeah, right. Just want to give up sometimes. Not like I can even practise AE stuff, because, surprise, you don't have adds running bloody everywhere on stuff like target dummies.

[Oziemaster]

ToD legendary with Katuso's seems like a combo that can easily beat out DHC + Katsuo's on cleave. And then emperor's capacitor + katsuo's for single target?

[Deleted]

ToD legendary with Katuso's seems like a combo that can easily beat out DHC + Katsuo's on cleave. And then emperor's capacitor + katsuo's for single target?

DHC > Katsuo, for ST, AFAIK. Running Cap+DHC for ST currently. I believe DHC > Katsuo's for general use; although it does help that by poking simcraft I realized I was screwing up my Serenity (looks like it's best to cycle RSK/SCK/BoK to extend Serenity as opposed to trying to fit a FoF in on CD, just squeezing one in right at the end), so fixing that added 50k dummy DPS.

Gloves aren't really an option for me ATM, if I'm honest, because I lucked into good gloves, so can't speak with experience there, either. What 2-target cleave fights are there, realistically, where you don't want bracers+Sephuz instead, anyway? Elis/Gul/Chrono, all three of the 2 target fights, realistically, Sephuz will be better than gloves, as you can reliably interrupt.

[dhays]

ToD legendary with Katuso's seems like a combo that can easily beat out DHC + Katsuo's on cleave. And then emperor's capacitor + katsuo's for single target?

As Penne has stated why use the gloves in a cleave fight when all the cleave fights that adds living longer than 8 seconds can be interrupted. If you have Sephuz then it is definitely top tier for cleave fights. Unlike ST fights Haste jumps through the roof for AOE/Cleave fights and becomes your 2nd best stat.

[Rocksteadee]

Are there any resources on how to use SCK correctly? I'm new to WW and although I feel I have the basic rotation down pretty well, I never know when to sub in SCK for AoE. I feel like once I get through FoF - SotW - WDP that some mobs are dying and it doesn't feel like a good time to use SCK.

(There's a link on peakofserenity about this but it doesn't seem to go anywhere)

[Deleted]

Are there any resources on how to use SCK correctly? I'm new to WW and although I feel I have the basic rotation down pretty well, I never know when to sub in SCK for AoE. I feel like once I get through FoF - SotW - WDP that some mobs are dying and it doesn't feel like a good time to use SCK.

(There's a link on peakofserenity about this but it doesn't seem to go anywhere)

Well, it depends. On ST with 0 stacks, only use it as filler during Serenity (it being better than BoK, and letting you RSK-SCK-BoK chain if you have bracers). It can be used as filler with 3 mobs/tags, overtaking RSK/BoK as chi dumps. On big packs, though, you ideally should be going for something like SEF-FoF-TP-SCK-TP-SCK-TP. 5 stacks+mobs or so is the point where it beats out SotW, but as that's a meteor anyway it doesn't scale with number of mobs well anymore. Been a while since I checked the graph. Even after ploughing through your big groups, you keep the stacks for a bit, so can still use it for great DPS on the next pack; it's more of a sustained DPS tool, as opposed to the burst DPS tool of FoF/SotW for AE.

http://www.peakofserenity.com/2016/0...heorycrafting/ is the chart for SCK. Always FoF first, don't forget you can EE-SCK-TP-SCK-TP-SCK, by which point most packs are severely wounded. With the CD on FoF, that's not always up, nor is WDP. Also, what you can do is tag a bunch of stuff, then pop serenity, watch all your SCK stacks fall off because the mobs are running around like crazy or have already died, then cry yourself into a corner. I hate using Serenity for AE.