7.2 Enhancement Feedback Posts

[Creekz]

7.1.5:

Akainu became worthless because of Hailstorm being too weak

EOTN nerfed from 6% to 3%

A talent being nerfed is not the same as a legendary being nerfed.

EoTN was nerfed from 2% per application to 1.5%. That is 4% vs 3% if you dont run hailstorm, 6% vs 4.5% if you do. Not 6% vs 3%.

[Kazzek]

There is no more hope, we loose a grate classe, I do not know why they destroyed this class,
I get the impression that blizzard laughs at us because we spend more time studying the class than them, so that in the end they change the class in the worst way (sorry for my english this is not my language)

[Phaty]

A talent being nerfed is not the same as a legendary being nerfed.

EoTN was nerfed from 2% per application to 1.5%. That is 4% vs 3% if you dont run hailstorm, 6% vs 4.5% if you do. Not 6% vs 3%.

Yea, it's not the same, it's even worse. But before the ring was nerfed, hailstorm was still a viable option with its nerf. Once the ring got nerfed it fell behind 6% haste.

[Skildar]

So they buffed the utility legendaries.... ok. One of the best legendaries across 2 specs and multiple talent setups, EoTN was neferd. Uncertain reminder, another of our better dps legendaries for 2 specs and any situation, was 100% extra time on bloodlust. Spiritual journey is 99% worthless in raids. Emalons didn't change, that's a good thing. Yes, akainu got reverted back to 50% after it was nerfed to 30% in 7.1.5. Storm tempest isn't changed because it's one of our worst dps legendaries already. KJBW is across all classes, it most likely won't get nerfed, and CoF+BTI outperforms it

Please just take a deep breathing and stop posting if you don't summ up the facts in your head before.
They balanced a lot of stuff before we entered Nighthold.
We actually were in a better balanced state than we could have hoped.

To refresh some's memories, once in EN : only two builds were potentially working but hailstorm was clearly ahead if you had eotn and akainu legendaries.
That was just not fun to anyone who didn't get those.
They nerfed hard hailstorm (increasing its cost and reducing its damage), they nerfed akainu and eotn.
Across the NH patches they buffed and increased the effects of multiple other (mainly utility) legendaries, which includes legs of healing (roots of shalad..) and wolves boots.

They also buffed and nerf maelstrom cost of a lot of talents making all first row talent viable and a few more builds working well with your dps varying something like 50k dps (~12% difference) from the least effective to best build.

Anyway you could very well play what you wish was the best way to go based on your feelings.
So they actually did a fine job there, you have absolutely no need to whine over something good...

The new 7.2 traits are very good ones and you have no reason to cry, first one improves our aoe dps (much needed), second one makes you feel a better difference when windfury procs (not something that you can spot easily, especially since stormbringer generates more maelstrom than rockbiter) and the golden trait serves as bad luck protection against stormbringer. So... everything we've been asking for weeks.

Now they are finally moving landslide to level 15 talent and you guyz are raging against loosing a fucking 5% dps buff that is clearly gonna get compensated by a future balancing pass and the gain of a real level 100 talent?? oO' What are you high on?

[Phaty]

Please just take a deep breathing and stop posting if you don't summ up the facts in your head before.
They balanced a lot of stuff before we entered Nighthold.
We actually were in a better balanced state than we could have hoped.

To refresh some's memories, once in EN : only two builds were potentially working but hailstorm was clearly ahead if you had eotn and akainu legendaries.
That was just not fun to anyone who didn't get those.
They nerfed hard hailstorm (increasing its cost and reducing its damage), they nerfed akainu and eotn.
Across the NH patches they buffed and increased the effects of multiple other (mainly utility) legendaries, which includes legs of healing (roots of shalad..) and wolves boots.

They also buffed and nerf maelstrom cost of a lot of talents making all first row talent viable and a few more builds working well with your dps varying something like 50k dps (~12% difference) from the least effective to best build.

Anyway you could very well play what you wish was the best way to go based on your feelings.
So they actually did a fine job there, you have absolutely no need to whine over something good...

The new 7.2 traits are very good ones and you have no reason to cry, first one improves our aoe dps (much needed), second one makes you feel a better difference when windfury procs (not something that you can spot easily, especially since stormbringer generates more maelstrom than rockbiter) and the golden trait serves as bad luck protection against stormbringer. So... everything we've been asking for weeks.

Now they are finally moving landslide to level 15 talent and you guyz are raging against loosing a fucking 5% dps buff that is clearly gonna get compensated by a future balancing pass and the gain of a real level 100 talent?? oO' What are you high on?

I don't know if you remember what that last balancing pass was, but it was a nerf to strong talents to balance with the weaker talents and nerfs to our best legendary. Dps for enhance dropped in 7.1.5 after the changes. And Yea. There was 2 builds that worked in EN. In NH there was the filler build we HAD to goto since they hit us so hard in 7.1.5, a build that still did worse than 7.1. Once you got 4p there was 1 build, we don't go back to the 7.1.5 build. Now there's the akainu build that requires the ring to even validate taking hailstorm because it's still bad, and performs even with the 4p SS build. And moving landslide to L15 takes away the 8% agi that benefit everything including the Windsong and hothand. Now was can take one of those 2 and everything else suffers, or we can take landslides that buffs everything we do, since agility is the biggest boost to our damage than secondary stats, but now we have a wet noodle lava lash again

[Kazzek]

ahahah just stop saying shit Skildar, How u can defend blizzard work when we pass from the top 10 dps to the worst class dps of the game in just one update..
You will not tell me that there is no problem? they did some shit, that it.

[Phaty]

I would understand if they brought weak talents to match strong ones but they did the exact opposite in 7.1.5, and the first info they released for 7.2.5 is clearly a nerf again. Meanwhile, notes released for the other classes, even the strongest ones, are mostly buffs, huge buffs, with some minor nerfs.

[nazrakin]

considering how weak we are already it makes more sense to keep a 5% damage boost since we wont get 8% agi to make hothand or windsong stronger, and landslde benefits everything, so its going to almost be the talent taken for most situations, especially aoe. its going to take a redisign of almost everything to compensate. if we had the damage to compete with other classes, hardly anyone would be complaining since the playstyle is generally praised, but instead of just buffing our damage blizzard just wants to move things around, changing up the playstyle, yet the damage isnt getting significantly better. theres plenty of talents they could add to make us better, but given their track record i dont see it happening. theres constantly ptr updates on classes that are doing well, then the one thing we finally get about enhance is that 5% damage is gone, rockbiter has a CD rendering FoA useless and landslide taking a slot that weakens hothand and windsong. the only good i see on this si that landslide can buff ascendance.

I can't understand why having a maintenance buff attached to Rockbiter/Boulderfist is so important to you when, again, there are far better ways of tuning us up if we need it.

Also, this patch isnt coming out tomorrow -- the current thought is mid June. The point being that there is likely going to be more changes before then. We dont even know what our new talent will be, it could be as strong as Landslide was. In which case, it wouldnt matter that you cant stack landslide and HH because you'd have something that makes up for it.

[Skildar]

I don't know if you remember what that last balancing pass was, but it was a nerf to strong talents to balance with the weaker talents and nerfs to our best legendary. Dps for enhance dropped in 7.1.5 after the changes. And Yea. There was 2 builds that worked in EN. In NH there was the filler build we HAD to goto since they hit us so hard in 7.1.5, a build that still did worse than 7.1. Once you got 4p there was 1 build, we don't go back to the 7.1.5 build. Now there's the akainu build that requires the ring to even validate taking hailstorm because it's still bad, and performs even with the 4p SS build.

All the builds that were working in NH seemed odd at the time because we had no reason to play them until that point, it was unfamiliar more than anything else. But there was a real gameplay experience and a real rotation that was not based around one spell. Only downside was our dps loss, sad balancing due to our RNG focus build.
So let them work on that before yelling scandal when they are just setting the first stones to our new talent tree.
The only thing we can currently criticize is the fact that things aren't moving fast enough, as they should have been working on this problem weeks ago

But I trust them to iterate on the problem, first catching up if setting landslide as a level 15 talent is a good fit for talent 15 row balancing. And then bringing a new level 100 talent that suits our desires as well as nerfing stombringer proc dependency to in the end have a real balancing pass that put us back in the middle of the pack.

[Deleted]

A talent being nerfed is not the same as a legendary being nerfed.

EoTN was nerfed from 2% per application to 1.5%. That is 4% vs 3% if you dont run hailstorm, 6% vs 4.5% if you do. Not 6% vs 3%.

In theory it was a 25% nerf. In practice it was 50%...

There was no "if you run HS". Running AS was more dps than HS with ring.

Even now you run only HS together with Akainu.

- - - Updated - - -

Please just take a deep breathing and stop posting if you don't summ up the facts in your head before.
They balanced a lot of stuff before we entered Nighthold.
We actually were in a better balanced state than we could have hoped.

To refresh some's memories, once in EN : only two builds were potentially working but hailstorm was clearly ahead if you had eotn and akainu legendaries.
That was just not fun to anyone who didn't get those.
They nerfed hard hailstorm (increasing its cost and reducing its damage), they nerfed akainu and eotn.
Across the NH patches they buffed and increased the effects of multiple other (mainly utility) legendaries, which includes legs of healing (roots of shalad..) and wolves boots.

They also buffed and nerf maelstrom cost of a lot of talents making all first row talent viable and a few more builds working well with your dps varying something like 50k dps (~12% difference) from the least effective to best build.

Anyway you could very well play what you wish was the best way to go based on your feelings.
So they actually did a fine job there, you have absolutely no need to whine over something good...

The new 7.2 traits are very good ones and you have no reason to cry, first one improves our aoe dps (much needed), second one makes you feel a better difference when windfury procs (not something that you can spot easily, especially since stormbringer generates more maelstrom than rockbiter) and the golden trait serves as bad luck protection against stormbringer. So... everything we've been asking for weeks.

Now they are finally moving landslide to level 15 talent and you guyz are raging against loosing a fucking 5% dps buff that is clearly gonna get compensated by a future balancing pass and the gain of a real level 100 talent?? oO' What are you high on?

There was a huge nerf with 7.1.5.

Here is some data:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1841

Enhance was strong single target with only sub rogues and shadows ahead. Enhance was 5% ahead of DHs.

Now look at Ursoc after patch:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...&timespan=1000

From one day to another, all melees overtook Enhance. DHs were 5% behind, now they were 10% ahead. DKs 5% behind, now 10% ahead.

That was just 7.1.5 buffs and nerfs and SA nerfed.

And you can see how enhance declined over time. And with 7.2, there was another jump...

[Tradu]

So its better now that we don't have it? There's no benefit for having enhance in the raid for stormlash on 2 ppl or empowered on 3 ppl. That's better than stormlash totem that effected everyone? You can't even tell the difference in dps for other raiders when enhance is in or its not, so there's no reason to desire one. You can take a shaman with empowered stormlash out of a raid and bring in another class that will do more damage than what the enhance did plus all the damage from empowered stormlash added. Stormlash totem was desired and when it was dropped you could see a notable raid dps spike. At least if we had that we bring something useful that would make up in total raid dps for the low personal dps we have been doing.

Of course there's no benefit to having an Enh in the raid for Stormlash, considering it's part of the Enh's own DPS(and balanced as such), not a raid DPS CD like Stormlash Totem used to be. It's not meant to be a reason to specifically bring an Enh.

[Phaty]

I can't understand why having a maintenance buff attached to Rockbiter/Boulderfist is so important to you when, again, there are far better ways of tuning us up if we need it.

Also, this patch isnt coming out tomorrow -- the current thought is mid June. The point being that there is likely going to be more changes before then. We dont even know what our new talent will be, it could be as strong as Landslide was. In which case, it wouldnt matter that you cant stack landslide and HH because you'd have something that makes up for it.

No, tuning up I all we need, not talent removals and relocating talent teir's the way they are doing with enhance. They did good with ele, but so bad with enhance. It's like there's seperate teams for each one.

[Deleted]

No, tuning up I all we need, not talent removals and relocating talent teir's the way they are doing with enhance. They did good with ele, but so bad with enhance. It's like there's seperate teams for each one.

Moving Landslide is a good things. It was just a very bad lvl 100 talent.

LVL 100 talents should be cool stuff, not some flat 8% agi buff.

Now they some room for cool stuff. Hopefully they come up with a cool idea.

[Skildar]

In theory it was a 25% nerf. In practice it was 50%...

There was no "if you run HS". Running AS was more dps than HS with ring.

Even now you run only HS together with Akainu.

- - - Updated - - -



There was a huge nerf with 7.1.5.

Here is some data:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1841

Enhance was strong single target with only sub rogues and shadows ahead. Enhance was 5% ahead of DHs.

Now look at Ursoc after patch:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...on=2×pan=1000

From one day to another, all melees overtook Enhance. DHs were 5% behind, now they were 10% ahead. DKs 5% behind, now 10% ahead.

That was just 7.1.5 buffs and nerfs and SA nerfed.

And you can see how enhance declined over time. And with 7.2, there was another jump...

It is a secret for no one that enhancement DPS sucks this patch and through all NH it will still suck. I'm not denying that we suffered a huge dps nerf but buffing enhancement today is difficult according to the fact that it is deeply RNG based.
I think what bothers me most is that it really felt like blizzard just just didn't give a shit about enhancement that due to months of lack of communication.

None the less, you should really care more about improving rotation based on talents or core gameplay of the spec instead of dps ranking as we've only seen the first iteration of 7.2.5 patch changes, and balancing needs several.

[Phaty]

Moving Landslide is a good things. It was just a very bad lvl 100 talent.

LVL 100 talents should be cool stuff, not some flat 8% agi buff.

Now they some room for cool stuff. Hopefully they come up with a cool idea.

It may not have been cool, but it's strong considering how much value agi holds and buffs everything we do. Now it's in a spot where we have to either take a hard hitting abilty, but lose a lot of damage on everything else we do, or not have a hard hitting ability to buff everything else. Maybe they will move hot hand, since IMO it's very strong now with lashing flames.

[EasymodeX]

Enhance has some RNG but the "RNG-ness" of the spec is overblown. It's extremely rare when I'm not within 5% per pull. Only time in recent memory when I had a parse that varied significantly due to class mechanics is when half my gear was broken and I was wondering why my Lava Lashes never proc'd a SB. Go figure.

Most of the bitching about Enhance RNG, IMO, is due to selective memory of the exceedingly rare dry spells of zero procs combined with poor play and inefficient utilization of GCDs.

[Trollfat]

I'm most interested to see what Blizzard does to Tempest. I could see them buffing OC and ESL through the roof just so no one uses Tempest any more

- - - Updated - - -

It may not have been cool, but it's strong considering how much value agi holds and buffs everything we do. Now it's in a spot where we have to either take a hard hitting abilty, but lose a lot of damage on everything else we do, or not have a hard hitting ability to buff everything else. Maybe they will move hot hand, since IMO it's very strong now with lashing flames.

Yeah I wish they would just scrap landslide. Between lightning shield, Ancestral Swiftness, Empowered Stormlash, and Landslide, we have way too many passive, lazy talents.

[garonne]

if they make boulderfist base line, they need to scrap fury of air or redesign it. i think it would be better to make it a longer CD AOE burst instead of a maelstrom drain, because with a 6 sec cd on our main generator i just dont see it being feasible to keep it up. or they could get rid of it and replace it with fire nova, again it could be a longer CD big AOE burst to compliment crash lightning and our cleave. this way, if a fight calls for aoe burst we have a talent to switch to. they should also redesign crashing storm to compliment a more single target approach. as for empowered storm lash, just bring back stormlash totem

you know thats EXACTLY WHAT SUNDERING IS right?

[nazrakin]

No, tuning up I all we need, not talent removals and relocating talent teir's the way they are doing with enhance. They did good with ele, but so bad with enhance. It's like there's seperate teams for each one.

No, tuning up is absolutely not all the spec needs. The 11 page thread started by many prominent Enh Shaman on the official forum is proof enough of that. These larger patches are about talent and mechanical tweaks, so if you are just looking for a big damage buff then you are looking in the wrong place.

Yeah I wish they would just scrap landslide. Between lightning shield, Ancestral Swiftness, Empowered Stormlash, and Landslide, we have way too many passive, lazy talents.

Well, the original intent behind this talent redesign was that people would have some control over how active or passive their playstyle would be. So the the passives mostly make sense from that perspective. The problem is that too many of the passive talents ended up being the strongest in a row because Blizz didn't have the balls to tune those talents to be worst than active options.

[Trollfat]

Well, the original intent behind this talent redesign was that people would have some control over how active or passive their playstyle would be. So the the passives mostly make sense from that perspective. The problem is that too many of the passive talents ended up being the strongest in a row because Blizz didn't have the balls to tune those talents to be worst than active options.

Also Lightning Shield and Ancestral Swiftness being in the same tier makes no sense