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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Yeah. The "immersion" argument against flying is pure BS because it operates on the premise that immersion is a good thing. It completely fails logically because immersion is can be a blessing or a curse, depending on the context..
    Not to mention Blizz themselves have added so much that does the very same thing:

    Dungeonfinder and LFR pops you directly in instance

    Skyhorn Kite, Goblin Gliders, and adventurer whistle.

    Level 100 char boosts.

    Heirloom gear that completely trivializes mobs and leveling past 80% of the quests.

    I have leveled 5 more alts 100-110 now JUST doing the invasions on them. I geared them to over 850 as well using them and only Broken Shore content.

    Immersion is a very lame excuse. So is trivializing content... there is just too much out there that does it.

    And now that Blizz is using it as a marketing tool... it's plain to see they really only want to use an existing feature as a way to bring back players and gate content. Even worse a reason to DO the content instead of a means of doing it.

  2. #262
    I have gotten used to not flying. However I must say at some points I wished I coulda flown up some ridges, where I wanted to meet a mob or get a quest.
    Havent unlocked it yet, but im looking forward to flying again.

  3. #263
    Stormheim and High Mountain was my bane, even with gliders. Thanks flying!

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    They didn't have to be made to be done with flying. I'm perfectly fine completing the zone while grounded. Once complete, I should be able to fly in that zone. Seems simple enough of a concept to me.
    Um yea you had to have flying to do some of the quest in wrath while leveling. Crappy Mcrappy or w.e they named that poor thing.

    As for completing a zone...they tend to reuse the zone for other things.

  5. #265
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    This argument works for botting as well. You don't have to bot. Why does mean Blizzard stop people who want to bot from doing so?
    Because it's against the ToS

  6. #266
    Deleted
    Funny, it made me (alongside 7.2 as a whole) quit WoW. Has been a fun ride, but enough is enough.

  7. #267
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fatisha View Post
    Funny, it made me (alongside 7.2 as a whole) quit WoW. Has been a fun ride, but enough is enough.
    An optional feature made you quit? Are you new to WoW?

  8. #268
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    An optional feature made you quit? Are you new to WoW?
    If the whole World is flying, it is anything but optional. But you have won, Blizzard caved in, I have lost. So many other Games to spend time with, so nothing is lost ;-).

  9. #269
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by fatisha View Post
    If the whole World is flying, it is anything but optional. But you have won, Blizzard caved in, I have lost. So many other Games to spend time with, so nothing is lost ;-).
    So you never played WoW before because for 11 years we've had flying, besides even if 90% are flying it is still optional for you not to and continue using FPs

  10. #270
    Stood in the Fire facelesssoul's Avatar
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    My daily routine changed from 80% travel and 20% doing content to 80% doing content and 20% travel. My alts are throwing a party at the moment and awaiting my main hitting exalted for Legionfall.

    Patch 7.1.5 was the better time to enable flying, and 7.2 should have just added ways to catch up for casuals.



  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by fatisha View Post
    If the whole World is flying, it is anything but optional. But you have won, Blizzard caved in, I have lost. So many other Games to spend time with, so nothing is lost ;-).
    They didnt remove ground mounts, you can still use them.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Myztikrice View Post
    What part of 410% movespeed and vertical mobility confuses you?
    The part where faster somehow equates to easier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what the vast majority of the pro-flight people have been asking for. Max level, flight-only accessible content. Sooooo, not sure why you think we would complain about it.

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    Doesn't seem possible. Seems like the 5 of you in party would just be AFK floating next to each other until it was time to log out. People have to get off their flying mounts to complete the WQs. You can't just float there and they magically complete. I'm a little surprised you didn't know that.
    No, lol, they haven't. The most common pro-flight comments are "But I like seeing the 2004 graphics from up hiiiigh" or "But I like to get things done faaaaster" Not once have I ever seen a pro-flyer mention tbc-style flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    WQs are designed to be soloed... The group content is dungeons raids etc. That's how Blizzard designed it

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    Flying wasn't exclusive, epic flying was but normal flying everybody had
    No, not everybody had it. You do know if you step down from your 12 hours a day playtime and look at the average community. people had to even work for normal flying. I remember having to taxi people up to the Blood elf dungeons because they didn't have flying.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    No, lol, they haven't. The most common pro-flight comments are "But I like seeing the 2004 graphics from up hiiiigh" or "But I like to get things done faaaaster" Not once have I ever seen a pro-flyer mention tbc-style flight.

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    No, not everybody had it. You do know if you step down from your 12 hours a day playtime and look at the average community. people had to even work for normal flying. I remember having to taxi people up to the Blood elf dungeons because they didn't have flying.
    In BC, pple "worked" for flying in the sense, they had to farm 5000 gold to learn it. That's all. It was available from the start if I'm not wrong, as long as you can afford it. 5k gold was considered expensive then. I personally farmed for 1 or 2 months to earn the gold. In Draenor and Legion, I had to wait months for flying because Blizzard gated it.

    Judging from how Blizzard eventually gave it to us despite their own misgivings, I would probably say it's the right call, for both them and us the customers.

    It is still after all, a business. While the customer isn't always right, providing what most customers want is decent business sense. =)

  15. #275
    Stood in the Fire facelesssoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyi View Post
    This is what kills me about the no flying crowd. If they don't want to fly and want to run from point to point, no one is stopping them. In addition, I don't get the immersion thing either as flight points fly you over everything anyway, at which point you then mount up and frustratingly try and get to a point for a quest, rinse and repeat.
    You are forgetting that many of that crowd are just posting about it because they like to rile up the forums. Sad thing is, most people post on forums sporadically if ever. Forum trolls ritualistically and compulsively live in the forums.



  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftshadow View Post
    In BC, pple "worked" for flying in the sense, they had to farm 5000 gold to learn it. That's all. It was available from the start if I'm not wrong, as long as you can afford it. 5k gold was considered expensive then. I personally farmed for 1 or 2 months to earn the gold. In Draenor and Legion, I had to wait months for flying because Blizzard gated it.

    Judging from how Blizzard eventually gave it to us despite their own misgivings, I would probably say it's the right call, for both them and us the customers.

    It is still after all, a business. While the customer isn't always right, providing what most customers want is decent business sense. =)
    Only epic cost 5000

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyi View Post
    Your argument if flawed, botting is, (A)against the terms of service; (B)can drastically effect the in game economy; (C)not a valid part of the game. I could come up with more but I hope you see the difference.
    "Against the terms of service." I could bring up the contentious issue of private servers, but all that's needed is to point out that this is simply another way of saying "Blizz's way or the highway." As is any ultimatum they give regarding flying.

    "Affect the in-game economy." Flying affects player interactions as well. That was the point. You're not operating in a vacuum and it's a stupid argument the pro-flying side keeps trotting out when they say "well you could always just choose not to do it." That's trivially true of everything. It doesn't mean they're unaffected.

    And for the record I am pro-flying. I'm just sick of that one silly argument.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    "Against the terms of service." I could bring up the contentious issue of private servers, but all that's needed is to point out that this is simply another way of saying "Blizz's way or the highway." As is any ultimatum they give regarding flying.

    "Affect the in-game economy." Flying affects player interactions as well. That was the point. You're not operating in a vacuum and it's a stupid argument the pro-flying side keeps trotting out when they say "well you could always just choose not to do it." That's trivially true of everything. It doesn't mean they're unaffected.

    And for the record I am pro-flying. I'm just sick of that one silly argument.
    I honestly dunno why so many threads both here and in WoW forums about flying. It's completely redundant now since we can fly. And Blizz allowing us to fly means that the majority prefers it this way. Which also means that possibly flying will still be a core part of the game in future expansions.

    Even LFR is already here to stay, and LFR is not even as important and in as popular demand as flying.

  19. #279
    TL : DR Sorry....playing catch up from last night. Wall of text incoming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Monkey View Post
    Flight came at the END of TBC
    Flight came at the END of Wrath
    Flight came at the END of MoP
    Flight came almost at the END of WoD

    News flash: Flight has ALWAYS BEEN an afterthought..
    You have a completely skewed version of the history of the game. I'm starting to question if you actually played during these expansions, and are just talking out of your ass.

    Flight was available in the launch patch of TBC.
    Flight was available in the launch patch of WotLK
    Flight was available in the launch patch of Cata.
    Flight was available in the launch patch of MoP.

    Just because there were mixed zones of flying and no-flying after a player reached level cap doesn't mean that flying wasn't still part of the overall experience out of the gate. Players spend the LEAST amount of time on their characters while leveling, and the "end-game" where flying is usually available, is where the majority of the WoW experience happens.

    I don't even know why I respond to you anymore. You've made it clear over the past few weeks that you're not interested in anything other than trolling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what the vast majority of the pro-flight people have been asking for. Max level, flight-only accessible content. Sooooo, not sure why you think we would complain about it.

    I don't necessarily think that the content needs to be "flight only". But it wouldn't hurt to make some content where flying is clearly the intended method of travel. As it stands, Legion's content is built as though flying doesn't exist, so dropping flying players into is going to invalidate most of it's intended design. This means that flight CAN'T really add much to the experience.

    Whereas if the zones were designed to have another layer of gameplay after flight was unlocked, then we get an almost Metroid-Vania type experience out of progressing our characters' power with flying. This would actually make doing all the work to get flight worth it, and give added value to flight itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Yea the only thing was zones were made to be done with flying unlike the next 3 expansions.
    Cata was clearly meant to be done with flying. MoP was sorta half and half, although its zones were obviously made to at least take flying into account. WoD...is....uhg...WoD: Land of Garrisonville.

    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Pretty sure what he means end is after leveling.
    I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any idea what he's talking about at this point.

    Regardless, even if he DID mean "leveling", then I refer to what I said earlier:

    "Players spend the LEAST amount of time on their characters while leveling, and the "end-game" where flying is usually available, is where the majority of the WoW experience happens. "

    And now with level-scaling technology, and possible iLVL scaling available in the future, it behooves Blizzard to design the zones to take flying players into account. If they're going to give players access to flight at any point in the expansion, then the design MUST take flying players into account. Otherwise any areas designed to be approached only from the ground will be completely undone by a flying player, ruining any opportunity for scaled up replay value.

    Basically, by taking this binary on/off approach to how flying works, they're shooting themselves in the foot in the long-term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    Theoretically I'm onboard with the argument that flying interferes with design and trivializes content.
    Correction: Flying interferes with a ground-only design.

    There are plenty of ways to incorporate flying into the game, as TBC-MoP are prime examples of. There are also plenty of ways to create credible threats and deterrents to flying players using existing tools and mechanics which are in-game right now.

    There's also the option of changing how flying works in order to better integrate it into the content. Although that's a more complex solution, it's ultimately going to be a better long-term one as well.

    The idea that flying intrinsically detracts from content design is a complete and utter bullshit to excuse the experiment of a WoW with No-Flying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatisha View Post
    If the whole World is flying, it is anything but optional. But you have won, Blizzard caved in, I have lost. So many other Games to spend time with, so nothing is lost ;-).
    Guys! This just in! Once you unlock flight, previous content is no longer accessible! It disappears! You can't do it anymore!

    Are you shitting me? Is this the level that people have bought into the No-Flying bullshit? Stop drinking the coolaid already, FFS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Not once have I ever seen a pro-flyer mention tbc-style flight.
    Then you've clearly never talked to me. Which is odd, because I've been around the argument from the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    No, not everybody had it. You do know if you step down from your 12 hours a day playtime and look at the average community. people had to even work for normal flying. I remember having to taxi people up to the Blood elf dungeons because they didn't have flying.
    Those were super lazy people, and the exception to the rule. Flying was like 300g for the basic mount and training. The only people I can remember who were afflicted by chronic poverty in TBC were people trying to level up their enchanting by paying for mats instead of farming.

    TL : DR Sorry....playing catch up from last night. Wall of text incoming!
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2017-04-19 at 09:19 PM.

  20. #280
    Duh... that's what I said 2 years ago already. Exploring everything on ground mounts when you level and with the x.0 patch is enough. I hope next time we can fly with the 0.1 patch next time.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

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