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  1. #121
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    The level of detail in Broken Shore is non-existent. It also has no new pet battles, new AK ranks have no story, new order hall missions have no backstory to them. It is also the first time ever that "rare" and elite missions give the same amount of rep for completion that regular ones do. Never before has this been the case in WoW. Moreover, they advertise as content perpetuating the reputation grind and by moving faction mounts to an RNG model.

    It all spells "rushed" and "unpolished" to me.
    Last edited by mmoc4282a3f415; 2017-04-20 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    You know you're wrong, right?

    People want to feel like they get something for their subscription time. On one hand they want to have fun when they play, and on the other they want to have some achievable goal that they can reach within the time they can reasonably allocate to the game in one month, or two, or whatever their subscription plan is. That's why usually a reputation would take no more than 30 days to get to exalted if you did quests every day.

    If the content is overwhelming, in the sense that it takes a lot of /played hours to reach a goal, players complain because they feel like they need to treat the game like a job if they want to reach their goal in a reasonable time frame. If the content is too spread out, or lacking, you feel like you have no goal, or that the game is stretching it out over more time than you think is worth it. Both are valid complaints, and both, at the core, stem from people wanting value for their money.
    You know that you are wrong? because you are putting as objective something for you subjective.


    You didnt add nothing valuable to your post, people want different things that arent achievable in the same "time" by the dev.

    Which is too much for A is too little for B and viceversa.


    Personally I didn't found anything not "value for my money" in Legion. But yet this is subjective.
    Last edited by mmocbfa8dc246d; 2017-04-20 at 10:11 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad View Post
    You know that you are wrong? because you are putting as objective something for you subjective.


    You didnt add nothing valuable to your post, people want different things that arent achievable in the same "time" by the dev.

    Which is too much for A is too little for B and viceversa.
    Really? Parroting is all you have?

    Ofc people want different things, casuals have little time to /play, but they still want to get something when they sub, and no-lifers want a reason to play 10 hours a day, but that's the definition of an MMO, it's a game with a large audience, they have to cater to as many people as possible.

  4. #124
    Warchief Felarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilmoo View Post
    1) reused content

    - MoP Timewalking
    - Brawler's Guild return
    - Micro-Holidays
    - Broken Isles Assaults
    - Pet Battle Dungeon
    - Updated Transmog tab/ Trial of Style
    - Paragon reps
    - Broken Shore
    - Cathedral of Eternal Night
    - Black Temple Timewalking raid
    - New Class campaign and Class Mounts
    - Old Legion dungeons made accessible to Mythic+ and HC
    - Auction House Dance Party


    2) Slightly refreshed, reused content
    3) absolute and utter failure
    4) uninteresting scripted mindless grinds
    5) lol
    6) lol (2)
    7) 0 new content, a never-ending grind with a minuscule carrot in form of a mount
    8) an empty island with occasional 5/6 worldquests once in 24 hrs.
    9) The dungeon so unbalanced and overtuned that it was nerfed 50% in two weeks after the release
    10) reused content
    11) quest is not available, unnecessary timegating, 1 week to do literally one quest that involves simply talking to npc and that is it, no class mounts available
    12) reused content
    13) yes, major, important upgrade /s
    It's quite sad, but tbh i agree with that summary about 7.2. Story narrative is so poorly done as well. It's of course only my opinion by it's really dissapointing especially considering, they delivered much better "island" patch in the past, i mean 5.2.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    To your point about the Solo Challenge Dungeons, I think it was clearly stated from blizzard themselves that right now they will be extremely hard and will get easier as more and more gear becomes available. Certainly there are loads of people who have completed the challenge with sub 900 ilvl gear.
    They announced that after release... Before that aka when they announced it they never once mentioned ilvl it was assumed to be like the MoP challenge scenario

  6. #126
    Warchief Zoibert the Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Most of what you mentioned is just irrelevant or should have been included upon launch, like paragon reps or all legion dungeons being tuned for M+ as well. New content has in the past mostly been stuff that advances the story. So far in one month of 7.2 only two weeks have advanced the actual story (last week and the first). The content in 7.2 is dire.
    False. You having an opinion on when content should have been made available or the relevancy of it does not imply the fact to be valid or even relevant. You are just pissed reality does not match your expectations, be them realistic or otherwise.

    The X.Y.5 patch cycle is a double edged sword. We do get patches more often, but those patches will not contain as much content as previous major X.Y patch releases. They're trying to spread these releases, let's just hope they don't scrape butter over too much bread.

    I do share the opinion expressed by the vast majority regarding gating, especially with "Shard Times", which amounts to a very sad realization that this weeks "questline" is but an artificial inflation of time.
    Last edited by Zoibert the Bear; 2017-04-20 at 10:47 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyE View Post
    Listen you cant have your cake and eat it to, Blizzard either time gates stuff to create something that you can do ever week, or they dont time gate you finish it day 1 and complain there is nothing to do. Blizzard cant win in this situation however as a life long player I would rather have the time gating opposed to day 1 completion.
    That's the problem, Blizzard should be able to design content that lasts without artificial gating. FF manages to do huge content patches that keep you busy for weeks upon weeks even months, why can't Blizzard

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by tet666 View Post
    Time gating destroyed everything good about the patch i'm usually not easily bored that but since i'm the last person left in my guild i'm actually considering unsubbing as well this isn't worse then the content droughts in MOP or WOD but it's still pretty bad.
    Time gating made me unsub lol, I'll probably come back at a later point but I don't feel like dropping money to wait for content to trickle in. The recent quest (2500 shards) is what made me let it truly drop.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I expected a weekly questline like Suramar.

    What I got was a joke quest that took 2 seconds to give Khadgar 2500 nether shards and told to wait for next week.
    Third post in describes my feelings completely.

    I'd be okay with the time gating if it felt like the story progressed each week. Hell, Nightborne pacing wasn't even ideal but it was way better than this. I don't have a huge issue with time gating being used to make things feel like they're happening through real time, and to draw out the experience, but...

    Going to Khadgar, turning in 2500 Nethershards and then getting them back for an entire week's worth quest is not acceptable. Broken Shore's storyline has already struck me as extremely bland so far and my god doing shit like that does not endear it to me. That was basically the game telling me "come back next week!".

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    It's the approach that has changed.

    For instance, in MoP things were simple. At launch you had a precise amount of things to do: 3 raids, dungeons, crapton of dailies and reputations. At some point you completed it ALL, and either cleared raids on the highest difficulty or had no interest in increasing it. Therefore, after a set amount of time, people ran out of things to do. Hence - patch 7.1, with another limited set of features that could be completed in some amount of time.

    Legion changed that. Reputations are an afterthought, and dailies no longer exist - World Quests keep giving you rewards regardless of how far ahead you are. Dungeons are no longer a complete-and-forget pieces of content, now they are relevant for much longer with M+. Even raids are easier to access thanks to the fact that Titanforges and Legendaries exist and crush the gear walls people could bang their heads on. With all that in mind, you don't really run out of things to do. You might burn out, but not find yourself in a position where there's nothing to do.

    Thanks to all that, 7.2 didn't have to introduce a whole lot of new content at once, like 6.2 or 3.3. It only introduced a bunch of other stuff, alternatives to what you are already doing (so you don't get burned out so fast) and moved some things forward, like Order Hall stuff and flying. Yeah, gating is a bit too extreme, but the things gated (campaign) are a nice addition every week to what you are already doing.

    It's unfair to compare 7.2 to other big content patches. The whole design philosophy changed, patches add new stuff to the game instead of simply replacing everything that got old.
    okay, the 7.2 added a dungeon (that noone does anyway due its stigma of being overtuned it got in the first two weeks), the pet batle "dungeon" (actually really short with little replayability) populated broken shore and added two currencies for gear and unlocking temporary bonuses and made a small twist to world quests with invasions, while the campaign is, frankly, boring so far.

    most of the stuff you do is precisely what you did before anyway - farming WQs and doing m+ or old raids, all the cool new stuff like farming sentinax or rares? got nerfed in a matter of days, the patch added very little in terms of new content, that is worth doing and thats a problem.

    honestly, the highlight of the patch, atleast for me, were the bugged class challenges (which i cant even replay once i beat them?) and flight. Thats definitely not okay with me. I think Isle of Thunder patch was much better content-wise, it had gating, too, but there was new stuff to do, like the zandalari invasions or IoG, while 7.2 just pushes you in the direction of old WQs, again.

  11. #131
    7.2's first few weeks should have been about building the Legionfall camp up. I'm talking scavenging supplies and getting them from other Broken Isles zones, bringing them over... using our professions to build a trove of armor and gear to outfit these fighters, quests to take them out into sorties on the Shore and do reconnaissance, establish new footholds.

    We got... a shadow of that. The Legionfall camp is already built for us, the only thing we're procuring is supplies for the 3 main buildings. There's really nothing exciting or meaningful for professions, and all the forward camps/flight points are already setup on the island. Every area is reachable. There are few surprises and everything feels artificially throttled.

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    The entire legionfall campaign was created to timegate flying and class mounts. There's nothing else to it.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  13. #133
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    People keep saying I'm throwing tantrums myself because people don't agree with my opinion, fine and all if you believe that to be 'raging', but all I was trying to point out is that 7.2 may not have been as badly received if content from X.X.5 was integrated in 7.2 as Blizzard would have in the past.

    People may have expected too much still if Blizzard didn't advertise it as the biggest patch ever because even if Broken Shore and the sort lived up to player expectations, it'd still just be a weekly questline.
    For some reason it's not okay for most people here to just reflect on multiple outcomes to look for the unseen issue with this patch.

    Yes, Legion invasions aren't exactly 'fresh', nor is most of the content in 7.2. but repetitive gameplay didn't seem an issue in the past, because people barely got content at all. Now the old world is relevant again with constant updates, and it's still not good.

    Is this patch perfect? Not at all.
    Is it that bad? I don't think so. Not for the reasons most of you listed, anyway.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    People keep saying I'm throwing tantrums myself because people don't agree with my opinion, fine and all if you believe that to be 'raging', but all I was trying to point out is that 7.2 may not have been as badly received if content from X.X.5 was integrated in 7.2 as Blizzard would have in the past.

    People may have expected too much still if Blizzard didn't advertise it as the biggest patch ever because even if Broken Shore and the sort lived up to player expectations, it'd still just be a weekly questline.
    For some reason it's not okay for most people here to just reflect on multiple outcomes to look for the unseen issue with this patch.

    Yes, Legion invasions aren't exactly 'fresh', nor is most of the content in 7.2. but repetitive gameplay didn't seem an issue in the past, because people barely got content at all. Now the old world is relevant again with constant updates, and it's still not good.

    Is this patch perfect? Not at all.
    Is it that bad? I don't think so. Not for the reasons most of you listed, anyway.
    The bolded part is correct, and it also applies to content that is staggered or delayed without necessarily falling into a different patch, btw (i.e. the raid itself and the class mounts). I'm just not sure where you want to go from there.

    Are you saying players are wrong to criticize the patch as much as they do because they fail to see the bigger picture? You may be right to some extent, but primarily players criticize the game based on their actual playing experience right now, and what they expect to get for their subscription money. At the moment, a major patch was advertised and released, but there is actually very little that players can do to progress their characters for the next 3 months (both in terms of gear/raid progression and collectibles), and very little new content to explore.

    I understand that Blizzard wants to stretch the content of a patch over a longer period of time in order to make players stay subscribed longer - in certain cases it would be OK, we did have situations in the past where players had too much content at once and burned out quickly, and even more often we had raid tiers that ended too quickly only to be followed by a drought at the end of the expansion - but players don't automatically have to be on board with this... At some point they are going to say "wait a minute, I'm not getting enough value for my monthly fee!", and rightfully complain when a patch they would usually consume in 4 months is artificially stretched in an attempt to make them play for 7 months (numbers are arbitrarily chosen).

    Oh, if I subscribe for a big patch, play my 4 months and enjoy it, and then you release a surprise mini-patch with a netherdrake-like rep farm or a little quest line that takes a few weeks to complete, or you add a neat new reward for timewalking, and you hook me in to keep playing another month or two, then Bravo! to you. That's good content pacing.


    TL;DR - People complain about lack of content because they pay money right now and can't do meaningful stuff in the game. Content added later is more money. Staying subbed longer for the same amount of content = less content for your money.


    P.S. - You can also say that class specific content is the reason 7.2 seems smaller than it is. There are 7 different quest lines and spec challenges, as well as class specific chapters in the Legionfall campaign. There are 17 new creature models in total, same as in 5.2, but 10 of those are class specific mounts, so they will have very limited spotlight even when they'll make it in game.

    Is this a reason not to criticize the lack of content as perceived by most players focused on a single character? I would say not really, considering Cata wasn't excused for rebuilding the old world and WoD wasn't excused for updating character models.
    Last edited by Coconut; 2017-04-21 at 12:32 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I expected a weekly questline like Suramar.

    What I got was a joke quest that took 2 seconds to give Khadgar 2500 nether shards and told to wait for next week.
    And this is the problem. Suramar was great and engaging. They saw that people enjoyed it and attempted to replicate that experience.

    Unfortunately, 7.2 did not have the advantages the Suramar content did. Suramar was something worked on before the expansion even launched. It was planned, written, acted out, specifically designed as an (almost) expansion-long zone, and that effort paid off. When they tried to mirror this experience, one that had months or perhaps even years of development time behind it, with patch content that had, at most, a few solid months of work... it just doesn't work out. This week's "quest chain" is a perfect example of that, and I think they added the large rep reward to it just hoping that it would be enough incentive for players to go "look at all that rep!" and ignore the fact that there was literally no content.

    Gating content is fine, when the content actually exists. It's cool to have us wait a week to progress areas of the story when there's actually stuff to do DURING that week - if you finish a little early it's not a huge deal because you feel like you accomplished something and are genuinely excited for the next part. That's the main difference here; weekly content that feels well-planned and "meaty" that is genuinely gated to pace the story, versus content that is gated because they flat-out don't have enough to last 11 weeks and need to stretch it out.

    Every time I picture 7.2 in development, I picture some dude off-stage at a concert waving his arms frantically at the emcee and motioning "streeeeetch!" because they need to fill more time and don't have another act yet. That's 7.2 in a nutshell for me.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Beste Kerel View Post
    Thank god, someone who gets the freakin point.

    Guess this is the only person not blinded by his own salt.
    You are guessing wrong. I was avoiding to comment till this comment.
    I got your point since the start but i found it useless to comment and try to explain logics to haters. Life is easier if you dont care about them.

  17. #137
    Deleted
    How much do you play to need more content ??

    I can barely handle everything on my main (and I don't even PvP or do pet battles...)

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixLite View Post
    How much do you play to need more content ??

    I can barely handle everything on my main (and I don't even PvP or do pet battles...)
    This is also a matter of "what do I get for my investment?".

    Legion gives you a lot of stuff "to do" and it can be very time consuming (I personally still have a ton of things left from before 7.2), but that's just because the grind is longer for each individual goal, not because there are more goals.

  19. #139
    Herald of the Titans Tech Priest Bojangles's Avatar
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    It was advertised as "The biggest patch ever!" though.
    Either infrequent big patches, or frequent smaller patches, it's still not enough.
    -=From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the blessed machine. Your kind claimed your flesh as if it will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a temple will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you... But I am already saved..... For the machine is immortal=-

  20. #140
    My only real criticism would be the extremely lazy and lousy time-gating. I don't mean in a sense of some of the people are complaining like wwaaah how dare you make me wait a week for the next quest type of way.
    I would be ok with time gating as long as it makes sense within the story. When they used to do time gating in quest lines before, they actually included a reason for us to wait
    - It is gonna take us X amount of time to build this,
    -need to wait for the results of an experiment
    - sent john doe on a scouting mission waiting for the report etc. etc.. Like we all knew it was time gating but at least they cared to write a paragraph of dialogue or quest ending to slightly justify the waiting. Also, the quests where written with knowing they would be continued over time with possible cuts planned like a TV show planning fades to black within scenes for commercials.

    Moving on to today, it is basically awkwardly staring at khadgar for a week while he refuses to make eye contact till, until he finally gives in and drops the next quest.. We had to wait for a week for him to ask 2500 shards from us, then give back 2499 saying oops, and the whole thing with no explanation or no follow up?! at this point, Devs are just actively fucking with us and trying to see how fare they can take it.

    Finally, blizz is heavily advertising and made the claims online like 'Come back for 7.2 now and complete your class hall campaign!! get a new mount!!! experience broken shore !! etc etc..' you might have seen them on Facebook or youtube - The problem is you CANT do those things they are claiming at the moment and if you do this anywhere else it would be considered bait and switch and is actually a criminal offense. The blizz's excuse of "oh if its in the game files right now it is considered as in game" excuse wouldn't hold up legally.

    Ps. Minirant - Can Khadgar puns please fucking stop already.. he is one of the most powerful mages in game and quite a serious character. He can do better then a combination of awkward teen and Dad jokes FFS.

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