Flying Next Expack

[Schmilblick]

Next expansion hasnt started yet and this discussion is already going on?

When do you want us to talk about it ? months after paying for it ?

ps : since you aren't that smart, this isn't a question, just in case...

[mmochump]

3 months is fine; I get it, Blizzard wants us to see all teh monies they put into the game. But after a month, I've seen it all and have begun to want flying. 7-8 months is wayyyyyyyy to long to wait and I'm thinking I won't put up with that next time.

[shonist]

turn off the light before you are out.

- - - Updated - - -

i mean, flying is cool... but how you ppl like it so much?? the mechanics are really basics and the world isnt that WOAAA to look from the skyes. At least walking stuff happens in the world.

[Swalload]

For me No flying on max level = no buying AT ALL, i can accept it for being restricted to max level, but no more grinding for something that Blizzard announcing it as a feature while it was baseline, let me enjoy the content at my pace and the way i want it.

This game needs more people like you. People who just quits cuz they don't enjoy it, which is how it's supposed to be. As far as I know, you don't play Dora the explorer games, it's not for you, the same way WoW is not for you, so quit WoW. You don't complain at whoever made Dora games, so there's no reason to complain at Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Flying at max level or nothing.

I started playing WoW at 2009 and the moment I could fly at Outland was a memorable moment.
The landscapes both at Draenor and Legion xpack are annoying and boring. I started doing World Quests again when I 'earned' flying with the Pathfinder Achievement.

I won't take an xpack with no flying. Simple as that.
If they want to keep taking my money with sub and rest services (faction changes, etc.), they have to offer the game I love. If they choose differently...well it's not my problem )

[Allenseiei]

For me No flying on max level = no buying AT ALL, i can accept it for being restricted to max level, but no more grinding for something that Blizzard announcing it as a feature while it was baseline, let me enjoy the content at my pace and the way i want it.

Flying is not in my reasons as to why I play this game.

[Vestig3]

When do you want us to talk about it ? months after paying for it ?

ps : since you aren't that smart, this isn't a question, just in case...

There is still atleast 1 year or more of Legion and you dont pay for flying you pay for the game which at the start doesnt include flying it doesnt say on the box "NOW WITH FLYING" does it? right.

And again why talk about something that isnt gonna change in the next expansion or the one after that.

[Schmilblick]

And again why talk about something that isnt gonna change in the next expansion or the one after that.

You are on the Devs team ?

[WowIsDead64]

This is whole reason, why Blizzard refuse to implement partial unlock of flying. See, what happens, when flying is being unlocked? Ton of players all of a sudden remembers, that flying is great and they want to have it.

[Vestig3]

You are on the Devs team ?

No but i know all this bitching and crying isnt gonna change anything and blizzard has already expressed themself that they like it they way it is right now and most of the players that play this game seem to like it this way including me.

[Soeroah]

What exactly do you mean "no more grinding for something that Blizzard announcing it as a feature while it was baseline"?

Basically from when Legion was announced Blizzard was saying flying wouldn't be in the game until some future patch that made Pathfinder a complete achievement. In fact, if anything, they culled the hell out of the achievement by the time flying was available so you practically don't have to do anything in 7.2 to finish Part 2.

[Dystemper]

I seriously doubt I will buy the next Expansion. Legion had such promise and the current Dev team pretty much RNG'd the fun out of the game. Unless they get rid of the current devs and bring in people who have a passion for the game again, I dont see me coming back.

[Demithio]

They might as well include it at launch, and let people level on a flying mount. The game has been so simplified and instant gratified at this point, why bother trying to hold back flying? Might as well give the current player base what it wants instead of Blizzard's half baked, misguided attempt at restoring 'adventure' by holding flying back.

[beelgers]

I think the current system works well. The only awkward part of the design to me is that you can make progress, then you have to wait (maybe a long time), and then you can make more progress to complete it. I think it would be fine if you could finish the requirements and then some patch later on turn flight on. Either that or have a very lengthy list of requirements that are active from launch. I just think the progress on flight - wait forever - progress on flight - fly pattern is odd. I'm not going to get worked up over it though. If I ever stop playing this game, it won't be because of something as small as flight.

[Schmilblick]

flying does trivialise everything

Trivialise what ? content that we have been ALREADY doing for months ? seriously...

[beelgers]

Trivialise what ? content that we have been ALREADY doing for months ? seriously...

You're probably right. We probably shouldn't have flying on the Broken Shore. Just in the launch zones.

[glowpipe]

If you hate flying, just don't fly. Don't preach your bullshit on people who want to fly and can't because of you whiners

[Deleted]

No but i know all this bitching and crying isnt gonna change anything and blizzard has already expressed themself that they like it they way it is right now and most of the players that play this game seem to like it this way including me.

First off: most people that ever played WoW don't play this game anymore so your most isn't right.... like at all.
It has nothing to do with bitching and crying if people speak up for things they want. And there are as many infantile kids that cry against flying than there are that cry because they want flight.

And Blizzard has their stance that will never change in the future..... you are new to Blizzards games and WoW in particular, right? EVERYTHING is subject to change, even a temporary statement like "we like how it is now".

So if you don't have exact numbers your statement could be right or wrong as well. But looking at WoWs best times you could be right: many people of the sorry rest that is still playing likes how they handle it now.... or at least have no problems with it.

[Schmilblick]

And Blizzard has their stance that will never change in the future..... you are new to Blizzards games and WoW in particular, right? EVERYTHING is subject to change, even a temporary statement like "we like how it is now".

Exactly, people will never understand this.

[Dhrizzle]

Higher difficulties being removed doesn't promote choice. This is a strawman, try again.

You misunderstand, if all raids are LFR difficulty the choice is in what abilities to use or what gear to use - if better raiders restrict themselves to (for example) iLvl 820 and do without artifact weapons then they can "choose" to have a more difficult and rewarding experience, and of course the LFR players get to choose how to tackle the game (very important in RPGs I'm told) whilst still getting the same rewards.

- Every dungeon giving all loot on the first run: Comparable, but not in degree. Flying or not flying means you get world content done at different speeds. Other than leveling, the effect here is minimal in the short-term, possibly significant in the very long term if you choose to literally never fly at all, but it's still not earth-shattering. We're talking a couple of artifact ranks here. Dungeons taking weeks rather than about half an hour to reward equivalent loot is directly impactful on overall balance and progression, and to a ludicrous degree. It's not just at all similar enough to be a worthwhile comparison.

I feel it fits with the argument that no-flight is part of an "artificial" way of slowing down player progress, especially people complaining about needing flight to get it out of the way quicker.

Garrison in WoD: Just a strawman. People didn't complain that it was too easy to get herbs vs. going out and gathering them, or at least that wasn't their main point. People weren't clamoring to go out and gather because gathering is fun, the complaint was that it destabilised the economy. Again, not a good comparison.

People wanted to go out and gather because gathering for either gear or profit can be a satisfying experience once you have reached your goal, having all the mats you could possible need just outside your backdoor undermined that experience which is why Blizz will probably not give players an equivalent again.

Besides, do you think some players "choosing" to not fly won't have some sort of economic disadvantage over ones who "choose" to fly and gather mats at a much quicker rate?

Diablo AH: Gave people an advantage based on factors outside the game i.e. financial situation. Huge impact on game balance, also discriminatory to certain socio-economic groups. Not a real choice if you can't actually afford to buy loot. Not really a choice for all players, also not comparable.

What happened to "it doesn't matter what other players do?" If people can "choose" to ignore the fact that other players are flying and getting rewards faster in the same virtual space, surely D3 players could have chosen to ignore the fact other people were buying loot in completely separate instances of the game.

BTW you're also missing the point that the gold AH was much more popular than the RMAH, and Blizz's reasons for removing it were too many people using it as the easiest/quickest way to gather loot rather than getting drops which, whilst more difficult, is what the game is more about. Following the arguments for flight there was no reason to remove it as players could "choose" to ignore the easier method, but as game designers Blizz felt it was best to not have an easy way that undermines what they consider a core part of the experience.

You confuse "ground friendly" with "time gating". This two - are completely different and unrelated things. Yeah, Vanilla's content was artificially stretched due to lack of it, but at the same time IT WAS GROUND-FRIENDLY.

What I said had nothing to do with time-gating, I'm pointing out that what you are now calling "GROUND-FRIENDLY" had a lot of features that people are complaining you need flight to deal with, only in Vanilla they were turned up to 11 (time "wasted" traveling could be anything up to an hour, "pointless" mobs wouldn't just inconvenience you until killed but actually kill your character, "maze-like" zones only had one flight-path so you had to follow their paths for much longer...)

Here is problem with ground content, as I see it.

1) First of all we need to see, how ground content looked back in Vanilla. We had lower respawn rates, but much bigger questing zones with lots of mobs, so all players were able to do the same quest simultaneously. As you can see, there were several routes, player could take to approach questing zone. If some spot was occupied by some other players - nothing bad, you just needed to go a little bit aside and that's it.

That's not how I remember Vanilla, a lot of the time if there was one or two more players on the same quest then you'd be waiting on respawns, sometimes drop rates were so bad you'd have to wait for respawns even if you were on your own. Then there's Vanilla's open-world "end-game" of grinding mats or rep of your choice, once again it was a situation where another player farming the same mobs would leave you both sitting around waiting for more to appear - my particular memory is of farming Felcloth for Robe of the Void, but it was worse for people who needed Black Dragon Scales or to farm Cennarion Circle rep in Silithus as they had to deal with the bots and gold farmers.

2) What happened in Cataclysm? Blizzard started to develop enough content, i.e. finally stopped to artificially stretch content - they started to implement more convenient ways of transportation, i.e. increase number of flight paths for example. And all of a sudden Blizzard realized, that if they would put some entry point to location, such as for example gate or flight path point, then players will gravitate towards this point. Call players lazy, but they simply didn't want to go deeper into location. Simply because the longer you go deeper into location - the longer will be your way back. I clearly remember such problems with some Cata's quests, such as quests with dragons around bottom of Hyjal. As result - majority of locations' space is being unused.

And the fact, that players usually use just small part of zone - means large amount of competition. And large amount of competition - is actually bad thing, because players start to hate each other and feel, like their success depends more on luck, i.e. on whether there are other players, doing the same quest at the same place and time.

Pretty much no different to Vanilla then.

3) And there are two possible solutions of this problem - good and bad. Bad solution - simply to give in on this tendency. I.e. if players don't use majority of zone's space, then why should devs even spend their time on creating it? If competition is so high, then devs simply need to reduce it via some crutch solutions, like increasing respawn rates. And etc.

Good solution? Flying. Because flying allows you to enter questing zone at any desired point. As simple, as that. We can have larger locations, where players won't sit on the top of each other and be happy at the same time.

Not sure how that's a solution, if there aren't enough mobs for everyone what difference would it make moving to another part of the area where there aren't enough mobs? Or are you suggesting there are enough mobs but people don't want to ride for 7 seconds to attack them, but flying for 4 seconds would be absolutely fine?