Page 15 of 15 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
  1. #281
    Herald of the Titans DocSavageFan's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    86th Floor, Empire State Building
    Posts
    2,501


    More taxes please....even though we're at a historical high?

  2. #282
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the woods, doing what bears do.
    Posts
    17,987
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I'm not sure why you think that, considering most (as in 'majority') don't even have to pay taxes at tax time, and the people who complain the most (and loudest) are the wealthy.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/168500/ha...axes-high.aspx

    Note I said "think they are", not "are".
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  3. #283
    And Germany comes in second right after Belgium

    Gotta love giving up about half of the little shit I make every year.

  4. #284
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/168500/ha...axes-high.aspx

    Note I said "think they are", not "are".
    I have to chuckle.

    A random sample of a mere 1,000 people to account for 320,000,000, right before tax time is due. Not biased or incomplete sample at all.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  5. #285
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the woods, doing what bears do.
    Posts
    17,987
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I have to chuckle.

    A random sample of a mere 1,000 people to account for 320,000,000, right before tax time is due. Not biased or incomplete sample at all.
    As opposed to your sample size of... what, one?
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    And Germany comes in second right after Belgium

    Gotta love giving up about half of the little shit I make every year.
    Ironically, giving Germans a big tax cut would probably save the EU by saving the Eurozone. By transforming the German economy into a consumption engine, the rest of the Eurozone members can even out their trade imbalances with Germany which would restore employment and reduce debt in those countries. That said, the loss to Germany could be in the form of higher unemployment, possibly drastically higher if the domestic economy doesn't adjust to higher wages by creating more service-sector jobs.

  7. #287
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    As opposed to your sample size of... what, one?
    Ad Hominem.

    Just because I have an opinion and experience of what people have said/done in the past (regardless of how accurate it may or may not be) doesn't make that poll not biased.

    78% of the tax paying population literally don't pay a tax return. It's reeeeeeally hard to say "50% of the population says taxes are too high" when less than 50% even pay. It's like getting a free pizza and saying that it was too expensive.

    That also goes to show how that graph is inaccurate in that it shows the US even higher than it is... That's the maximum. The majority of the population is in the 0-15% range. About 5% pay above the 25% range.
    Last edited by chazus; 2017-04-19 at 05:27 PM.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  8. #288
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arizona, US
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Ad Hominem.

    Just because I have an opinion and experience of what people have said/done in the past (regardless of how accurate it may or may not be) doesn't make that poll not biased.
    Rightly pointing out that anecdotes aren't a counter for a properly conducted poll isn't an ad hom. From what I've gathered every other time sample sizes show up as a complaint, 1000 seems to be pretty spot on for the US population, assuming proper sampling methodology. Unless you're one of the guys who doesn't think the field of statistics even works (I can legitimately never remember who falls in that camp), in which case please disregard and carry on.

    78% of the tax paying population literally don't pay a tax return. It's reeeeeeally hard to say "50% of the population says taxes are too high" when less than 50% even pay. It's like getting a free pizza and saying that it was too expensive.
    I don't have to pay for a pizza to be dissatisfied with the state of it. I've almost certainly delivered free pizza and had people complain about something despite the lack of expense back in my Domino's days.

    That also goes to show how that graph is inaccurate in that it shows the US even higher than it is... That's the maximum. The majority of the population is in the 0-15% range. About 5% pay above the 25% range.
    I'm still not sure how this is a strike against the poll. Again, being subject to a thing isn't a necessity to have an opinion about a thing. Helpful, maybe, but not necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  9. #289
    It doesn't matter if taxes aren't that high.

    All the other other other bills that no other country has are what's consuming 90% of disposable income.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    No, they're not. Anyone with 8th grade history and the internet could conclude this within minutes. What kind of idiot would

    (checks Twitter)

    ooooooooooh.
    Or maybe:

    (checks about half the voting population)

    (checks one the major linchpins of the last election campaign)

    (checks the entire Republican platform in living memory)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I have to chuckle.

    A random sample of a mere 1,000 people to account for 320,000,000, right before tax time is due. Not biased or incomplete sample at all.
    You're confusing sample size with bias. Depending on the variance in the data 1,000 people might be perfectly adequate for a population of 320 million, provided the sample is not biased. Being biased is a totally different problem that no amount of sample size can fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Ad Hominem.
    I see that term misused on nearly a daily basis, but I think that just might take the cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Just because I have an opinion and experience of what people have said/done in the past (regardless of how accurate it may or may not be) doesn't make that poll not biased.

    78% of the tax paying population literally don't pay a tax return. It's reeeeeeally hard to say "50% of the population says taxes are too high" when less than 50% even pay. It's like getting a free pizza and saying that it was too expensive.

    That also goes to show how that graph is inaccurate in that it shows the US even higher than it is... That's the maximum. The majority of the population is in the 0-15% range. About 5% pay above the 25% range.
    I guarantee you that people who pay zero tax can absolutely believe taxes are too high. Look at the President for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Karfal View Post
    See here's the thing. First off all america isnt socialist. So because of that we should have lower taxes than socialist/communist countries. No "free" health care and other BS that's been proven to fail.

    Second those are averages. The reason why republicans bitch about taxes is because we pay the taxes. The top 5% pay 95% of the taxes. Of the top 5%(most liberal) they dont pay taxes. Look at Gates, Buffet, Pimpleface zuckerberg etc etc Now the rest of the 95% comes from middle class blue collar workers. Most are republican or moderate liberals not far left radicals. The poor, most liberal pay no taxes.

    The federal government taxes the rich at 39% and middle class at 25%(its far more complicated cause there's like 7 brackets but just for averages will we use those numbers). Even worse if you live in new york or california cause they pay I believe about 14% in state taxes. THEN on top of that we got major cities we tax a few percent.



    So in conclusion yes republicans hate pay all the taxes. Also notice the states with the highest taxes and most commi liberals are the poorest. Its not hard to figure out.
    If only you knew how silly you sound to the people who live in such countries, where there also seems to be quite better education for some reason

  12. #292
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You're confusing sample size with bias. Depending on the variance in the data 1,000 people might be perfectly adequate for a population of 320 million, provided the sample is not biased. Being biased is a totally different problem that no amount of sample size can fix.
    That's more my point... Polling people about their opinions of tax rates at the height of people being upset about it is a bit biased in my opinion.

    I see that term misused on nearly a daily basis, but I think that just might take the cake.
    It's a bit off, but claiming you (the other person) are right simply because I could be wrong is still certainly a fallacy.

    I guarantee you that people who pay zero tax can absolutely believe taxes are too high. Look at the President for example.
    I'd hardly say using the president, especially THIS president, a good point of note. And certainly people who pay no tax can say that, but I doubt most do. I've personally never heard anyone I know (and yes, its anecdotal, but 100% of hundreds of people is still notable) say taxes are too high when they make under $50k.

    I DO hear it a lot from people who are making six figures.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  13. #293
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hombregato View Post
    Also we have the third highest business tax rate in the world, which is why a lot of R&D has been moving to Canada.
    You don't. Belgium and other countries are nearly 10% higher than American taxes in general.

    The reason R&D moved out of the US is simply because the USA has been stagnating and other countries have better employees for R&D related work in general. I'm USA doesn't even rank in the top 10 anymore in that sector, it's even worse in the technology sector.
    Last edited by mmoc925aeb179c; 2017-04-20 at 04:21 PM.

  14. #294
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by RaoBurning View Post
    Rightly pointing out that anecdotes aren't a counter for a properly conducted poll isn't an ad hom. From what I've gathered every other time sample sizes show up as a complaint, 1000 seems to be pretty spot on for the US population, assuming proper sampling methodology. Unless you're one of the guys who doesn't think the field of statistics even works (I can legitimately never remember who falls in that camp), in which case please disregard and carry on.
    If 1000 is 'normal' then thats fine, I guess. I still feel like literally 0.0003% of the population isn't... very indicative, but if thats what normal statistics say, so be it. However, doing this poll at the height of people being upset/stressed about taxes seems the absolute worst time to do a poll about it. It's like asking a guy who is getting arrested what he thinks about the police, and then showing a poll that most people don't like police.


    I don't have to pay for a pizza to be dissatisfied with the state of it. I've almost certainly delivered free pizza and had people complain about something despite the lack of expense back in my Domino's days.
    Being dissatisfied with the state of it, and the price, are two different things.

    I'm still not sure how this is a strike against the poll. Again, being subject to a thing isn't a necessity to have an opinion about a thing. Helpful, maybe, but not necessary.
    It's more about the graph than the poll. The graph shows the US even higher than it ought to be, which damages the credibility of the information being provided. Even if the information is excessive in its favor, it's still uncredible because of it.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  15. #295
    Pandaren Monk
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    That's more my point... Polling people about their opinions of tax rates at the height of people being upset about it is a bit biased in my opinion.
    How is this time the height of people being upset? People can be upset at taxes at any point of the year, and it can be rationalized as such on various reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981
    I don't believe in observational proof because I have arrived at the conclusion that such a thing doesn't exist.

  16. #296
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by wheresmywoft View Post
    How is this time the height of people being upset? People can be upset at taxes at any point of the year, and it can be rationalized as such on various reasons.
    The same reason students are most stressed right before finals, or employees are stressed right before the deadline of a project. People are most stressed and upset about taxes at the beginning/middle of April (when the poll was taken).

    Sure, people can be upset about taxes any time of the year, but the poll was literally take in the few days when people would be MOST incensed about it. Out of 365 days to take a poll, they chose the handful of days which people would be pissed the most.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  17. #297
    Pandaren Monk
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    The same reason students are most stressed right before finals, or employees are stressed right before the deadline of a project. People are most stressed and upset about taxes at the beginning/middle of April (when the poll was taken).

    Sure, people can be upset about taxes any time of the year, but the poll was literally take in the few days when people would be MOST incensed about it. Out of 365 days to take a poll, they chose the handful of days which people would be pissed the most.
    Both of your examples are a finite instance. The student will not be in the final for the same class again unless they fail. The project deadline for this deliverable will not come again.

    But taxes, it never ends. In April you may be stressed about filing. But in May you're angry at what you had to pay, or what you didn't get back. in July/August you feel it again when you can't go on the vacation you wanted with your kids, or had to give up a convenience. And on and on it goes throughout the year.
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981
    I don't believe in observational proof because I have arrived at the conclusion that such a thing doesn't exist.

  18. #298
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    17,222
    Quote Originally Posted by wheresmywoft View Post
    Both of your examples are a finite instance. The student will not be in the final for the same class again unless they fail. The project deadline for this deliverable will not come again.

    But taxes, it never ends. In April you may be stressed about filing. But in May you're angry at what you had to pay, or what you didn't get back. in July/August you feel it again when you can't go on the vacation you wanted with your kids, or had to give up a convenience. And on and on it goes throughout the year.
    Finals and exams happen hundreds of times. Projects and deliverables happen hundreds of times. They're definitely ongoing things.

    And while your point is true that it has lasting effects throughout the year... April is definitely the most stressful (as can be evidenced by the amount of money spent on marketing tax aid during that time). The psychological process of 'avoiding pain' is banked on (literally) here.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  19. #299
    Pandaren Monk
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,941
    Indeed, yet hundreds is finite. You know when they'll end. And can choose whether or not you're met with another final ever again.

    As for projects, by definition it has a beginning and an end. You may have other projects, but once again, it is finite.

    If you're planning on instancing each item that may be a final, or each deliverable. Should I just start referencing each cost someone may or may not see? That's essentially how it's been stretched.

    It's marketed more heavily due to the fact that they also make the most on each transaction at this time. All of the 'last-minute' fees come flying onto your bill. They're banking that people have forgotten. If people actually just wanted to avoid pain. They could have done it January-March and not been swept up in April.
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981
    I don't believe in observational proof because I have arrived at the conclusion that such a thing doesn't exist.

  20. #300
    European countries get away with providing social services because their budget allows it. Meaning, they don't pay for as many things as the US does. We have to foot the bill for things they've gotten away with not paying for many years now. Look at the countries not paying into NATO their fair share. These are not poor countries. Not only NATO, but these countries do not pay for their own military like the US does. That is a significant reduction on a country's budget. Just look at Russia being aggressive (most recently in Ukraine), and every single western European power sat on their hands and did nothing. We have a real world example of what these countries would do, and it was absolutely nothing. They rely on the US military. If we could get away with not spending money having a huge military presence in Europe I'd be all for it. But we tried that twice and you people started two world wars. You have proven that we have to have a presence there unfortunately.

    In terms of health care, many Americans pay a lot for health INSURANCE. Talk to any doctor willing to divulge their budget for malpractice insurance. It is absurd. Also, medical R&D barely exists outside of the US. Europeans take American drugs without really paying for the research cost. My health care is cheap through my employer and I have immediate access to some of the best health care in the world.

    Now in terms of this thread as far as taxes are concerned; it's not necessarily that we are taxed high, it's just that we are so frustrated with the way the money is spent. I don't want to give money to countries that hate us. I don't want to spend money on people who are here illegally. I don't want money going to incredibly dysfunctional programs. I sure as hell don't want government to control my health care, as I know how shit the VA is. These are not unreasonable positions.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •