Raid Chests should only award loot from bosses you've killed

[Deleted]

No. Quite honestly this game doesn't need any more fun things removed from it. Some people get butthurt because once in a blue moon someone gets a really nice titanforge on an item, or somewhat more commonly they actually get a piece of loot they can use (Most of the time myself and my guildies seem to get the same shit we have, or a piece of loot that's just vendor trash.) - and that's fine. They can just stay butthurt.

There is no "fuN" in RNG upon RNG upon RNG. Its just frustrating, and when you finally get something, its either often still just crap. You don#t really feel excited when you get something good, or only a very short amount of time. The prevalent feeling is relief when you get something, but only for a short time, and frustration most of the time.
Thats not "fun". Thats the exact opposite of fun.

We had much better systems in place that made character progression. valor upgrades for example. They served the same purpose as WF/TF (make you stronger), but you could actually pursue them in the way you wated and made you feel like you are actually steadily progressing. Combined with Reforging, which meant that you could make an mediocre item an upgrade for you, this was a very rewarding and fun system.

The current system on the other hand with piles of RNG upon RNG upon RNG is just plain stupid and not fun.

[D3athsting]

I wish it worked that way so i could get a 900 metronome instead of a useless cloak from elisande

[Kikazz]

Make an alt, bring that alt only to bosses with very desirable items. Farm chests. You see the problem?

They should remove the chest alltogether. Make bonus rolls guaranteed loot drops, and remove all other sources of current raid gear. Chests, relinquished tokens etc. Those sources of current raid gear shouldn't be there. 925 arcano crystal is insane (from relinquished).

Yep i agree, i had a 915 Metranome on my druid.

opened a relinquished and received a 925 socketed Avoidance Metranome,

completely stupid.

also u can get tier gear from them btw. or so i hear

[Puri]

I don't see this is necessary. Since you only get non-tier items, you might as well be lucky and loot a 925 item with perfect stats out of some low level m+ or even plainly farming nether shards. Even raid only trinkets can proc highly fom lfr, normal or heroic.

The whole game is a giant loot piñata, the ridiculous low chance of getting something useful from your mythic raid cache every two weeks really does not play a gamebreaking role here worth changing.

[Shauren]

Voted NO ... the chest is meant to be a bonus, a bonus doesn't mean something you already have - it means something you might not have.

However, I might concede that tier pieces off bosses you haven't killed be excluded.... that's about as far as I'd compromise to the OP's point.

You can't even get tier pieces from the mission chest anyway

[FelPlague]

as the first post said, join only for 1 boss do him over and over till you get cache
then get garunteed loot from that boss

also the issue with making it give only loot frombosses you killed, means that those caches will be pointless, because by the time you get them you already have most of the loot you need from those bosses.

[DemoBytom]

Well, you got lucky..
I got a gloves in personal loot, the same gloves from bonus coin, and then the same gloves from the quest chest... Not even one warforged or anything, literally 3x the same item... All trash, because not tier..

I still don't find that a problem. It's one chest per week (right?), so one shot at being lucky.. Some people will hit the jackpot and get their BIS thunderforged trinket from boss they haven't even progressed to... While others will have my luck and win 3x the same useless piece of trash gear.

[l33t]

Hello there.

I'm currently 4/10 M in Nighthold and progressing Tichondrius, I just recently got my weekly chest upgraded to mythic quality, and managed to get my hands on a lovely 925 Titanforged Ring of the Scoured Clan. Which drops from Gul'Dan on Mythic, the last boss of the instance

I know, I know, I got insanely lucky, and I'll be even more lucky if I down Gul'dan before Tomb releases, which is why I find it utterly ridiculous, no matter how small the chance is, that you're able to get loot from a boss you haven't even killed yet.

Since the chest essentially acts as a free bonus roll, my suggestion is that it only draws from the loot tables of bosses you've already killed. That way you still have a chance of getting an upgrade without disrespecting the raiders that actually killed the boss to get the loot.

So, you've got your top loot and now want nobody else getting top loot. No, thank you.
If you feel that your reward is undeserved, feel free to delete the item and pretend you've got a usual haste-versatility piece of hazzicosta's crap. Just don't try to remove our bonus stuff from everybody who does not share your weird ideas, thank you, we've already had our share of this crap in forms of pruning, pvp talents, no pvp gear, no flying, etc. Just play the way you want and don't mess with other playstyles please, kk ty.

[Sarevokcz]

meh, I havent had a single upgrade out of NH chests yet, some people get lucky, like our priest, who got aluriel ring 925 with socket from it, I do the mission mostly for coin anyway, atleast with the coin, i can decide on which boss i will try my luck, since plenty of them drop literal trash, which is what i usually get in my chest

[Extremity]

Make an alt, bring that alt only to bosses with very desirable items. Farm chests. You see the problem?

They should remove the chest altogether. Make bonus rolls guaranteed loot drops, and remove all other sources of current raid gear. Chests, relinquished tokens etc. Those sources of current raid gear shouldn't be there. 925 arcano crystal is insane (from relinquished).

How would you benefit from this by getting a BoP item that is desirable... on an alt? It's not as if you can feed your main from it, and he's talking about lifetime kills. You go on an alt and want a specific item or two from two bosses, so you only ever kill those bosses and skip all loot from every other boss until you eventually get the items you want through your additional once-a-week chance?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see that as an exploit, I see that as severely gimping yourself and passing on ten potential upgrades (again, on an alt) to get one. So... yeah, am I missing something here?

[Deleted]

How would you benefit from this by getting a BoP item that is desirable... on an alt? It's not as if you can feed your main from it, and he's talking about lifetime kills. You go on an alt and want a specific item or two from two bosses, so you only ever kill those bosses and skip all loot from every other boss until you eventually get the items you want through your additional once-a-week chance?

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see that as an exploit, I see that as severely gimping yourself and passing on ten potential upgrades (again, on an alt) to get one. So... yeah, am I missing something here?

People made alts to target specific legendaries.

If you want to be prepared for Tomb in an optimal way, this would be great. Take your alt only to those bosses, farm those chest with missions. once you get exactly the items you want, take the alt to the raid and gear him up with the remaining gear (tier tokens, rest of the slots).

BAM, BiS equipped alt for Tomb ready.

And since you can kill the bosses each week with a different alt, you can easily have 10+ alts that way that you gear up with very specific gear for the next raid.

Sure, its nothing most casuals would do, but most casuals don't raid mythic, either. And those who do will find smart ways to abuse it.

[Extremity]

People made alts to target specific legendaries.

If you want to be prepared for Tomb in an optimal way, this would be great. Take your alt only to those bosses, farm those chest with missions. once you get exactly the items you want, take the alt to the raid and gear him up with the remaining gear (tier tokens, rest of the slots).

BAM, BiS equipped alt for Tomb ready.

And since you can kill the bosses each week with a different alt, you can easily have 10+ alts that way that you gear up with very specific gear for the next raid.

Sure, its nothing most casuals would do, but most casuals don't raid mythic, either. And those who do will find smart ways to abuse it.

I'm still confused how skipping all but two bosses in a raid to guarantee an extra chance at loot from those bosses would be a beneficial way to gear. How is it better to get loot like this:

-) From two boss kills, and an extra chest with a chance for a piece of loot from those same two bosses, per week
-) From those two boss kills anyways plus all other bosses, every week

I still don't understand how you're "exploiting" or benefiting over any other player by passing on 6 to 8 raid encounters. So if fight #1 has a ring you really want, you're saying it's BETTER to spend a month killing only that boss just so your chest has a higher chance of having that ring?

[Deleted]

A scenario to elucidate the problem: Let's say you want to reroll your current main, in this example a mage, to a new class, in this example balance druid, for tomb of sargeras and you have your guilds support for doing that. Because you know what bosses drop items you actually need from the raid (Gul'dan caster trinket, Anomaly trinket, Ticho set shoulders, Gul'dan set pants, trilliax set cloak and Krosus chest), you join your guilds mythic raid on your mage for Skorp, Spellblade, Botanist, Augur and Elisande and let them carry your druid for the other 5 bosses. This way, for your chest you exclude about half of the possible items you could receive that you don't want and increase your chances of getting the trinkets you actually do want. All of this is assuming you can get tier from the boxes, if not only farm trinket bosses on highest diff and farm your tier pieces in HC, reducing the loot pool from the mythic boxes even further.

In past expansions this would have been rather pointless because there would have been weapon and off-set drops that you can't get from the chest, but luckily there is M+ for those things now.

[Deleted]

I'm still confused how skipping all but two bosses in a raid to guarantee an extra chance at loot from those bosses would be a beneficial way to gear. How is it better to get loot like this:

-) From two boss kills, and an extra chest with a chance for a piece of loot from those same two bosses, per week
-) From those two boss kills anyways plus all other bosses, every week

I still don't understand how you're "exploiting" or benefiting over any other player by passing on 6 to 8 raid encounters. So if fight #1 has a ring you really want, you're saying it's BETTER to spend a month killing only that boss just so your chest has a higher chance of having that ring?

Lol, you don't get it, do you?

getting very few specific items is what makes a char strong. Like the trinkets from gul'dan. Having those is *very* desirable. Plus, slots in a Mythic raid are usually a bit sparse. You simply can not take every alt to every boss every week.

But you still want to end up in TomB with as much gear as possible.

So your guild bring an alt only to Gul'dan mythic. Maybe even two, depending on how good you are. Those alts now start farming the class order hall chests for the Gul'dan trinket. As soon as they have it, you take them through the rest of the raid for more gear.
The problem is scaling, you can take two new alts to GuL'dan every week (or as many as you can carry) and thus the amount of chars that can get the chest with an item specifically from guL'dan grows and grows, and thus the chance that some of them get the proper item, high TF. As soon as that happens, you re-roll to that char and farm the rest of the gear.

Similar stuff happened with legendaries in the begeinning, where pople would leel up 4+ chars of the same class, get 2 legendaries and if those 2 weren#t the BiS ones, they discarded the chr and started a new one. That was better then farming more legendaries on the same char. You would re-introduce this situation again.


As I said, that nothing casuals need to worry about, but its stuff you wold organize guild-wide if you are doing high mythic progression.

[Deleted]

Lol, you don't get it, do you?

getting very few specific items is what makes a char strong. Like the trinkets from gul'dan. Having those is *very* desirable. Plus, slots in a Mythic raid are usually a bit sparse. You simply can not take every alt to every boss every week.

But you still want to end up in TomB with as much gear as possible.

So your guild bring an alt only to Gul'dan mythic. Maybe even two, depending on how good you are. Those alts now start farming the class order hall chests for the Gul'dan trinket. As soon as they have it, you take them through the rest of the raid for more gear.
The problem is scaling, you can take two new alts to GuL'dan every week (or as many as you can carry) and thus the amount of chars that can get the chest with an item specifically from guL'dan grows and grows, and thus the chance that some of them get the proper item, high TF. As soon as that happens, you re-roll to that char and farm the rest of the gear.

Similar stuff happened with legendaries in the begeinning, where pople would leel up 4+ chars of the same class, get 2 legendaries and if those 2 weren#t the BiS ones, they discarded the chr and started a new one. That was better then farming more legendaries on the same char. You would re-introduce this situation again.


As I said, that nothing casuals need to worry about, but its stuff you wold organize guild-wide if you are doing high mythic progression.

Problem with that scenario is that you need quite a lot of M kills to even get the mythic chest.

[Adoxe]

No, lol. That would give you loot only from Triliax, Botanist, Elisande and Gul'dan. At this point in time, Triliax is useless for most Mythic raiders who raided from the start, Botanist has some interesting things but again, mostly useless for people who raided Mythic from the beginning. That only leaves Elisande and Gul'dan, which would cause the same issue that you're trying to avoid, as they're end bosses and quests can be done in LFR. There is no way of "fixing" the free loot chest, the only fix is to remove it completely.

Edit: Mis-read the thread, thought you wanted it to reward items only from the bosses required for the chest quest. I'm dumb.
My opinion remains the same, getting loot from bosses you've already killed would only benefit the players who have only recently started progressing. Most players who are further ahead in Mythic won't need any loot from the earlier bosses and even if they'd get a minor upgrade from WF/TF, the upgrade would be minimal and wouldn't help them to progress whatever remains for them. Again, the only way to fix the free loot chest is to remove it completely or leave it as is, it honestly doesn't do that much, you'd need to get insanely lucky with RNG to get that one right item for you out of dozens of possibilities. Personally, I've only ever received 1 useful item from the chest since Nighthold came out.

[Krazzorx]

No, because of titanforging. You can already kill heroic Gul'dan and get mythic Gul'dan gear. (Which isn't super rare as it doesn't have to TF much).

Even if you hate the TF system, it existing basically eliminates the issue of getting loot from bosses you haven't killed yet from raid caches. Because it already does that.

Another issue is how it possibly would mean you would want to avoid getting a mythic cache. If you were a 3/10 mythic fury warrior without Cof, you really wouldn't want a mythic cache as you'd be locked out of getting that trinket. A heroic cache would be preferable. That's just not a good situation. Would feel awful.

[Sylvaeres]

Chests shouldn't have been awarded in first place. Whole "offline progression" thing does not belong to MMORPG. Want to get rewards? Play game, not click buttons.

But as they exist and won't be removed, I don't see reason to limit to few bosses. It is supposed to be some kind of progression or catch up stuff, but it would only punish those with worse progression instead of helping them.

And grats on your ring!

This is called a solution to a non-existent problem, and i thank God that people like yourself aren't making decisions

[Eace]

Chests shouldn't have been awarded in first place. Whole "offline progression" thing does not belong to MMORPG. Want to get rewards? Play game, not click buttons.

You still need to play the game to get rewards. You won't get Mythic loot if you don't raid Mythic at all, and AFAIK you won't get Heroic loot if you only raid Normal or lower.

It's just a piece of extra loot from the difficulty you're already playing. Add RNG on top of that, and you might get a useless item every week.

[judgementofantonidas]

Make an alt, bring that alt only to bosses with very desirable items. Farm chests. You see the problem?

They should remove the chest alltogether. Make bonus rolls guaranteed loot drops, and remove all other sources of current raid gear. Chests, relinquished tokens etc. Those sources of current raid gear shouldn't be there. 925 arcano crystal is insane (from relinquished).

guaranteed bonus roles sounds reasonable considering you pay for a token that may, and in many cases does, drop nothing.