Druid Class Hall Followers Optimization

[Lyvar]

I almost fully agree although I see no point in benching Naralex instead of Mylune.

[Polarthief]

Updated this post with a T2 build for Moroes and added Mylune's build as well!

Alright so it's 3AM (so this post will probably be a mess) and I've been doing Karazhan like all fucking day. Still no luck on Moroes, but the entire time, I've been thinking over the optimal setup, and I'd like to give it a try one more time. This is going to assume you've got Moroes/Meatball and you're doing Shroom Strategy (keeping AoW/DGW alive with Shrooms).

Champions Chosen/Ideal Gearing:
- Meatball (duh) [Ball Generator] {Gear for Duration > Success}
- Moroes (also duh) [Guests Generator] {Gear for Success, maybe Duration or T2?}
- Remulos (more duh) {Gear for T2 Troops > Success}
- Sylendra (see above 3) [Shroom Generator] {Gear for Duration > Success}
- Thisalee [Has Dash] {Gear for T2 Troops > Success}
- Hamuul [Because you need 2 Ferals and Hamuul has Starfall] {Gear for Success or however you'd like. Don't gear for Duration (no point to)}
- Mylune or Naralex [Your combat ally. Feel free to pick] {Gear for maximizing Combat Ally bonuses. Probably Gold, but do have at least 1 Resource item on}

Breakdown:
Specialization Counters: 2 Feral, 1 Balance, 1 Resto+AoW; +1 Balance when not following you
Ability Counters: 1 Minions+DGW, 1 Hazards+DGW, 2 Spells; +1 to Minions or Hazards when not following you
Bonuses to Issue Types: 2+3 Keepers to Minions, 1 to Hazards, 1 to Spells; +1 to Spells if you chose Naralex and he's not following you

Success Chances and Duration Reduction (also Combat Ally bonuses) by Follower with maximized bonuses:
(Using epic or weaker items, no legendaries. Doesn't account for their gear to the mission's level req, Specialization/Ability Counters, or their "base success", this is just all bonuses accounted for)
- Meatball (Saddle, Carrot, Fetish): 90% Success, 105% if there's Minions; 25% Reduction
- Moroes (Fetish, Doodad, Ember): 75% Success, 90% if there's Minions or Spells, 125% if paired with Keeper, 140% if Spells+Keeper, 155% if Minions+Keeper (Keepers also get +15% to Minions)
- Moroes (Ember, Fetish, Token): 65% Success, 80% if there's Minions or Spells, 130% if paired with Keeper, 145% if Spells+Keeper, 160% if Minions+Keeper (Alt if you want to go Token over Doodad)
- Remulos (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 95% if paired with Keeper, 110% if Minions+Keeper
- Sylendra (Saddle, Carrot, Fetish): 15% Success; 25% Reduction (Sylendra obviously needs help succeeding in missions)
- Thisalee (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 85-95% if paired with Keeper, 100-110% if Minions+Keeper (in actuality, she's just a slightly worse Remulos)
- Hamuul (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 80% if paired with Keeper, 95% if Minions+Keeper
- Hamuul (Ember, Fetish, Doodad): 25% Success, 75% if paired with Keeper, 90% if Minions+Keeper (slight variant using Doodad over Token)
- Mylune (Scroll, Fetish, Doodad): 25% Success, 75% if paired with Treant (this is why Mylune is much better as a CA as she practically needs Meatball or Moroes to cap off the rest, even after pairing her with her preferred troop! Even if you waste your T4 choice on Sisters, she only gets 80% tops)
- Naralex (Fetish, Doodad, Ember): 25% Success, 40% if Spells, 75% if paired with Keeper, 90% if Minions OR Spells+Keeper
- Brightwing (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 80% if paired with Keeper, 95% if Minions+Keeper

- Mylune/Naralex as a CA: Choose between any of the following bonuses per WQ completed: 90g (3x gold), 175r (3x res), 75g+100r (2x gold, 1x res), 50g+150r (1x gold, 2x res). My personal recommendation is 75g+100r, as it maximizes gold with a Potion+Necklace, but also uses an Elixir to keep resources plentiful, plus I feel the 100r is worth more than the pitiful 15g extra you get from using a Draught.

*Note regarding Strange Balls of Energy: If all else fails and you simply cannot 200% a vital mission, this is when you bust out Meatball's... balls. You can equip up to 3 on a single mission (1 to each champion/troop) for an up to 60% bonus. Don't use your balls willy-nilly because you won't have them for when you really need them (like a difficult gold, raid, or other mission). If you ever have 5 though, equip one to an AoW, DGW, or Keeper just to avoid wasting them (side-note: Sylendra's Mushrooms are in the same boat. Use them as soon as an AoW or DGW is missing vitality, but if you have 5 and all AoW and DGWs are at full, use them on Keepers or even treants to avoid wasting).

Why you shouldn't even consider the unused Champions:
- Zen'tabra: Skull Bash, which Remulos and Sylendra have. That's literally the only reason, otherwise I'd use her over Hamuul. Minion bonus is way better than Hazard bonus, especially since you can pair it with Keepers for a 30% bonus to Minions. Minions are also (arguably) the most common type of secondary problem.
- Brightwing: You already have 2 restos (with AoW) and Sylendra is far superior. You don't want to rely on keeping an AoW or DGW alive with a 50% chance. Failing the chance means having to waste 6 days and 4000 resources re-optimizing. Brightwing effectively has the ability: "might keep a Treant, Keeper, or Dinner Guest alive or not", which is effectively worth 30 minutes of your time/1 Dinner Invitation, which is effectively worth jack shit.
- Mylune or Naralex: Because you picked the other one and one of them had to get left out because you have 7 slots. Granted, if you had 8, you'd probably pick Zen'tabra or Brightwing over the other one here.
- Broll: Berserk... throw him in the trash where he belongs. Broll is indefensible. If you actually like Broll and anything he stands for, you're not the kind of person I ever want to keep communication with.


I might make the above follower list again using maximized legendaries and seeing how far I can take the success rates, but for now, use this how you will, I'm going to bed, rip me.

[Mooncode]

Polarthief
So basicly going of the post I made on page 4 :P

But I do like how you expanded out to show how all the % success chances would be, if certain criterias are met.

I might make the above follower list again using maximized legendaries and seeing how far I can take the success rates, but for now, use this how you will, I'm going to bed, rip me.

Of the old Legendaries, the only ones you should consider worth it would be:

Demon in a Box: Increase success chance by 15% and reduce mission duration by 5% (to replace Fetish/Doodad)

Brooch of Endless Dreams: Reduce mission duration by 15% and increase success chance by 5% (to replace Carrot/Doodad .. Maybe even Fetish, if you want to optimize for less duration rather then success chances)


From the new legendaries, there is abit more to choose from:

World Quests:

Shard of Twisting Nether: 100 Order hall resources + AP token (Valiant's Glory) per WQ
Pouch of Wonders: 50 gold + AP token (Valiant's Glory) per WQ
Ward of Infinite Fury: 100 Order hall resources + 50 g (You could argue that using an Epic (100 OHR or 50G) would have mostly the same effect)

Mission Bonus:

Best one, without no doubt is:
Fel Imp Tooth - 15% success chance + 15% reduced mission duration (Replace Carrot/Doodads/Token - or Fetish if you want to optimize on Sylendra/Meatball for more speed)

The other 3 are basicly:

15% success chance + 15% towards either 1) - Minions 2) - Spells 3) - Hazards
So these are argueably just upgraded Fetishes.


Now, I did already have these mentioned in my post back on page 4, but here you have them again - fully explained.

[Lyvar]

Champions Chosen

Agreed. Will you be using Zen'tabra as long as you don't have Moroes? I am currently using Mylune as I don't have a Warden yet (Dash) but I might switch her off afterwards.

Naralex is superior to Mylune if you don't optimize her for T1 which you apparently don't.

Success Chances and Duration Reduction

Don't forget you actually have to counter things. It is great to pair everyone with a Keeper but I would not rely on that. I would give Moroes a saddle and Hamuul at least a Doodad instead of a Token.

The 5 others are obvious (Naralex according to personal preference).

Why you shouldn't even consider the unused Champions

Even having 8 Champions I would not consider Brightwing (if I have a Resto Ancient). His passive is as useless of Broll's and his other specifications don't make up for Zen'tabra (or rather Mylune than Brightwing).

[Tiberria]

If you want Dash, why not just use Mylune as an active champion so you can use Thisalee as a combat ally? Thisalee has superior combat ally options (stats buff in combat, movement speed, etc.), and if you use a Treant with Mylune and equip her with 1-2 T1 troop equipment items, she's going to be about as good as Thisalee anyway.

[Lyvar]

If you want Dash, why not just use Mylune as an active champion so you can use Thisalee as a combat ally? Thisalee has superior combat ally options (stats buff in combat, movement speed, etc.), and if you use a Treant with Mylune and equip her with 1-2 T1 troop equipment items, she's going to be about as good as Thisalee anyway.

Because a) that leaves you with 2 Balance, 1 Resto and 1 Feral champion (what is your Ancient gonna be?).
And b) Thisalee is by far better than Mylune for Missions. Optimize her for Keepers (you won't have Sisters) and you get Mylunes +15 at 3 vitality + 15% the Keeper has over the Treant + 15% against Minions + potential 20% if paired with another full health troop.

Yes, Thisalee might be the better combat ally - but she is wasted as a combat ally. Just use Naralex instead.

[Mooncode]

Alright so it's 3AM (so this post will probably be a mess) and I've been doing Karazhan like all fucking day. Still no luck on Moroes, but the entire time, I've been thinking over the optimal setup, and I'd like to give it a try one more time. This is going to assume you've got Moroes/Meatball and you're doing Shroom Strategy (keeping AoW/DGW alive with Shrooms).

Champions Chosen/Ideal Gearing:
- Meatball (duh) [Ball Generator] {Gear for Duration > Success}
- Moroes (also duh) [Guests Generator] {Gear for Success, maybe Duration or T2?}
- Remulos (more duh) {Gear for T2 Troops > Success}
- Sylendra (see above 3) [Shroom Generator] {Gear for Duration > Success}
- Thisalee [Has Dash] {Gear for T2 Troops > Success}
- Hamuul [Because you need 2 Ferals and Hamuul has Starfall] {Gear for Success or however you'd like. Don't gear for Duration (no point to)}
- Mylune or Naralex [Your combat ally. Feel free to pick] {Gear for maximizing Combat Ally bonuses. Probably Gold, but do have at least 1 Resource item on}

Breakdown:
Specialization Counters: 2 Feral, 1 Balance, 1 Resto+AoW; +1 Balance when not following you
Ability Counters: 1 Minions+DGW, 1 Hazards+DGW, 2 Spells; +1 to Minions or Hazards when not following you
Bonuses to Issue Types: 2+3 Keepers to Minions, 1 to Hazards, 1 to Spells; +1 to Spells if you chose Naralex and he's not following you

Success Chances and Duration Reduction (also Combat Ally bonuses) by Follower with maximized bonuses:
(Using epic or weaker items, no legendaries. Doesn't account for their gear to the mission's level req, Specialization/Ability Counters, or their "base success", this is just all bonuses accounted for)
- Meatball (Saddle, Carrot, Fetish): 90% Success, 105% if there's Minions; 25% Reduction
- Moroes (Fetish, Doodad, Ember): 75% Success, 90% if there's Minions or Spells, 125% if paired with Keeper, 140% if Spells+Keeper, 155% if Minions+Keeper (Keepers also get +15% to Minions)
- Remulos (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 95% if paired with Keeper, 110% if Minions+Keeper
- Sylendra (Saddle, Carrot, Fetish): 15% Success; 25% Reduction (Sylendra obviously needs help succeeding in missions)
- Thisalee (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 85-95% if paired with Keeper, 100-110% if Minions+Keeper (in actuality, she's just a slightly worse Remulos)
- Hamuul (Ember, Token, Fetish): 15% Success, 80% if paired with Keeper, 95% if Minions+Keeper
- Hamuul (Ember, Fetish, Doodad): 25% Success, 75% if paired with Keeper, 90% if Minions+Keeper (slight variant using Doodad over Token)

- Mylune/Naralex: Choose between any of the following bonuses per WQ completed: 90g (3x gold), 175r (3x res), 75g+100r (2x gold, 1x res), 50g+150r (1x gold, 2x res). My personal recommendation is 75g+100r, as it maximizes gold with a Potion+Necklace, but also uses an Elixir to keep resources plentiful, plus I feel the 100r is worth more than the pitiful 15g extra you get from using a Draught.

*Note regarding Strange Balls of Energy: If all else fails and you simply cannot 200% a vital mission, this is when you bust out Meatball's... balls. You can equip up to 3 on a single mission (1 to each champion/troop) for an up to 60% bonus. Don't use your balls willy-nilly because you won't have them for when you really need them (like a difficult gold, raid, or other mission). If you ever have 5 though, equip one to an AoW, DGW, or Keeper just to avoid wasting them (side-note: Sylendra's Mushrooms are in the same boat. Use them as soon as an AoW or DGW is missing vitality, but if you have 5 and all AoW and DGWs are at full, use them on Keepers or even treants to avoid wasting).

Why you shouldn't even consider the unused Champions:
- Zen'tabra: Skull Bash, which Remulos and Sylendra have. That's literally the only reason, otherwise I'd use her over Hamuul. Minion bonus is way better than Hazard bonus, especially since you can pair it with Keepers for a 30% bonus to Minions. Minions are also (arguably) the most common type of secondary problem.
- Brightwing: You already have 2 restos (with AoW) and Sylendra is far superior. You don't want to rely on keeping an AoW or DGW alive with a 50% chance. Failing the chance means having to waste 6 days and 4000 resources re-optimizing. Brightwing effectively has the ability: "might keep a Treant, Keeper, or Dinner Guest alive or not", which is effectively worth 30 minutes of your time/1 Dinner Invitation, which is effectively worth jack shit.
- Mylune or Naralex: Because you picked the other one and one of them had to get left out because you have 7 slots. Granted, if you had 8, you'd probably pick Zen'tabra or Brightwing over the other one here.
- Broll: Berserk... throw him in the trash where he belongs. Broll is indefensible. If you actually like Broll and anything he stands for, you're not the kind of person I ever want to keep communication with.


I might make the above follower list again using maximized legendaries and seeing how far I can take the success rates, but for now, use this how you will, I'm going to bed, rip me.

Nice with some calculation towards the post I made earlier, gives a nice view of what numbers we are looking at. Aswell some thought process of why these champions are the ones to pick - Which I'm fully agreeing on.

In regards to the Legendaries, just focus on the new ones... Only Demon in a Box and Brooch of Endless Dreams, are small upgrades compared to Saddel and Fetish.

[Polarthief]

Polarthief
So basicly going of the post I made on page 4 :P

But I do like how you expanded out to show how all the % success chances would be, if certain criterias are met.

LIKE I SAID IT WAS 3AM AND I HAD AN AWFUL DAY >_>

Which has been made up for with today because my sexy new phone got delivered AND I GOT THE FUCKING WATCH HOLY SHIT I'M PUMPED.

Of the old Legendaries, the only ones you should consider worth it would be:

Demon in a Box: Increase success chance by 15% and reduce mission duration by 5% (to replace Fetish/Doodad)

Brooch of Endless Dreams: Reduce mission duration by 15% and increase success chance by 5% (to replace Carrot/Doodad .. Maybe even Fetish, if you want to optimize for less duration rather then success chances)

Both are great, and I got Demon in a Box, but sadly put it on Sylendra. Definitely fucked up there. Just as a note though: You can use the Demon in a Box as a second Fetish rather than replacing Fetish. The thing about equips is that they're all unique-equipped, so Fetish+Demon would just be better than Fetish+Doodad in every way (+5% Success +5% Reduction).

From the new legendaries, there is abit more to choose from:

World Quests:

Shard of Twisting Nether: 100 Order hall resources + AP token (Valiant's Glory) per WQ
Pouch of Wonders: 50 gold + AP token (Valiant's Glory) per WQ
Ward of Infinite Fury: 100 Order hall resources + 50 g (You could argue that using an Epic (100 OHR or 50G) would have mostly the same effect)

Mission Bonus:

Best one, without no doubt is:
Fel Imp Tooth - 15% success chance + 15% reduced mission duration (Replace Carrot/Doodads/Token - or Fetish if you want to optimize on Sylendra/Meatball for more speed)

The other 3 are basicly:

15% success chance + 15% towards either 1) - Minions 2) - Spells 3) - Hazards
So these are argueably just upgraded Fetishes.


Now, I did already have these mentioned in my post back on page 4, but here you have them again - fully explained.

Regarding the new legendaries:
- WQ ones are easy, you stick them on your CA/BG. Best case scenario, you get the Gold+AP, Res+AP, and the last legendary, or a Potion for more gold.
- Fel Imp Tooth is tricky. I'm really not sure if I'd want that on Sylendra or Meatball. PROBABLY Meatball, but... ugh, idk. I'd take my time with that one.
- Minions: Throw that on Meatball and don't look back. Moroes is a solid second choice but he's fine with a Keepers build. Meatball could use some extra help to 200% solo.
- Hazards: This is the one I got and I gave it to Hamuul since he innately has this. I think I made the right choice
- Spells: Moroes since he also innately has it. If you don't have Moroes, this is just a slightly better Fetish/lets you equip 2 Fetishes. It could easily go on anyone, though I'd recommend holding it until you get Moroes if you're farming him.

Agreed. Will you be using Zen'tabra as long as you don't have Moroes? I am currently using Mylune as I don't have a Warden yet (Dash) but I might switch her off afterwards.

Naralex is superior to Mylune if you don't optimize her for T1 which you apparently don't.

Currently, my Mylune is built for Missions because I don't have Moroes, and she's optimized for T1 (ONLY Scroll, rest is Fetish+Doodad), BUT, I just got the watch today so Mylune will be my CA and Naralex will be deactivated (mostly because Mylune is already Titled, Naralex is only Epic, and I'm a lazy cunt. Also because I've found that Naralex's ability doesn't work on most targets that would actually need it, so it's useless).

So to answer your original question: No, I use Mylune over Zen'tabra, mostly for Dash and as my second Balance. Zen'tabra honestly just got stuck with a bad ability (Skull Bash) while you already have 2 other followers that are mandatory (Remulos/Sylendra) who also share said ability. There is no other reason I don't use Zen'tabra, and like I said, I'd use her if she had any other ability since her Minions bonus is better than Hamuul's Hazards bonus (ARGUABLE. I still think Minions > Hazards > Spells).

Don't forget you actually have to counter things. It is great to pair everyone with a Keeper but I would not rely on that. I would give Moroes a saddle and Hamuul at least a Doodad instead of a Token.

The 5 others are obvious (Naralex according to personal preference).

You don't necessarily have to. Cursed is the only mandatory counter (assuming the bonus is worth it). I'd argue Slowing is also pretty important to counter. Lethal only matters if you absolutely must use AoW or DGW, and Disorienting... well, if you're forcing to counter that, you really should fix your priorities. Powerful also doesn't have to be countered (and the success chances posted are assuming you have a base 0% chance to succeed; raid missions start at -15% I think). Countering powerful just gives you a much higher success rather than lowering your base success.

Even having 8 Champions I would not consider Brightwing (if I have a Resto Ancient). His passive is as useless of Broll's and his other specifications don't make up for Zen'tabra (or rather Mylune than Brightwing).

If I had an 8th, it'd be a toss-up between Zen'tabra (3rd Feral) or Naralex (as a Mission follower), though this is assuming you are using Mylune as your CA and you have Moroes.

If you want Dash, why not just use Mylune as an active champion so you can use Thisalee as a combat ally? Thisalee has superior combat ally options (stats buff in combat, movement speed, etc.), and if you use a Treant with Mylune and equip her with 1-2 T1 troop equipment items, she's going to be about as good as Thisalee anyway.

Because Mylune is a significantly weaker Champion (for missions) than Thisalee. It also fucks up the counters that are so perfectly laid out before us.
My list is built for maximizing MISSIONS, not your Combat Ally. If you want, you can use Trash Druid Broll Trashmantle for all I care.

- - - Updated - - -

Just as an update to the list and using Naralex for 2 whole days, I've come to realize how absolutely shit Naralex really is (his ability is a 3m cooldown and does NOTHING to immune targets, which is the majority of targets you'd even consider the ability on), UNLESS you're being ganked or constantly in PvP, which is when he's actually a god-tier CA. That said, I'm on Sargeras and I almost never get into PvP, so I'll be running Mylune as my CA, but feel free to use whoever. Using either Naralex or Mylune still keeps the balance of counters; all you're doing is swapping an occasional Starfall for an occasional Dash.

Anyway, now that I have Moroes and it's NOT 3AM, I'm going to make another Success Chance list with Legendaries (though not now because extending this single post any further might be committing a crime).

- - - Updated - - -

ONE LAST THING I'll end this stupidly long post on is to really and I mean REALLY consider your legendaries. Don't just throw them on someone that looks good, especially if you're replacing an epic you don't have many of (if anything you should be replacing blues though). Really think it through 110%.

Feel free to ask for help with your legendary choices; I'll be more than happy to help here, or even on Discord (Polarthief#8092; drop a message, say hi!). You don't get many, and as someone like me who has gone ham with missions and maximizing crates and every chance I can get for gear, I've only gotten ONE legendary (this excludes the freebie one we all got last week from the Command Center).

[Leyre]

So, lets say i hate moroes/meatball, wich one should i use instead of them?

[Polarthief]

This right here, this is the dream. Not using Moroes/Meatball, not countering the boss, and still managing 200% is what I'm trying to make the perfect optimization for. Trying to get Meatball/Moroes to solo (+ a troop) 200% every mission they can and have other duo+troop and not even needing to counter the bosses is the ideal world. With more legendaries and time, we should get there.

PS: Yes I know the bonus on this mission doesn't really matter, but that's beside the point.

So, lets say i hate moroes/meatball, wich one should i use instead of them?

Something easier (and probably simpler) to answer is why do you hate them? If you really hate them (and optimization) that much, here's an updated list, just for you: (WARNING: THIS IS EXTREMELY SUBOPTIMAL AND NO ONE ELSE BUT LEYRE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING THIS SETUP)

- Remulos, Thisalee, Sylendra, Hamuul (you never don't use these 4)
- Mylune
- Zen'tabra
- Brightwing

This should give you:
Spec Counters: 2 Balance (Rem/Myl), 3 Feral (This/Ham/Zen), 2 Resto (Syl/Bright)
Abil Counters: 2 Minions (Ham/Bright), 2 Hazards (This/Myl), 3 Spells (Rem/Syl/Zen)
Bonuses: Minions (Zen), Hazards (Ham), Treants (Myl), Keepers (Rem), 5-35% bonus when with troops (This), Shrooms (Syl), Near-uselessness (Bright)
Recommended Troops: Balance AoW (Resto works too), 1 Starfall & 1 Dash DGWs

Now, the hardest bit: If you want a Combat Ally/BG, I actually recommend Thisalee here, simply because she's the only Feral that can be a CA/BG that's activated. The only thing this changes is that you might want to consider 2x Dash DGWs, though 1SF+1Dash works fine too. This also makes it really hard to constantly 200% missions since you're pretty much solely relying on Remulos to carry with the others providing some support (~50% or so). Basically, you'll want to equip nearly everyone with Ember, Token, and Fetish (except Sylendra who will still be Duration for shroom generation).

- - - Updated - - -

New 7.2 Legendary List
(Missions)
- Fel Imp Tooth: +15% Success, +15% Reduction [Fetish+Saddle]
- Vial of Sight: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Minions [Fetish+Zen'tabra's bonus]
- Harpy Feather: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Hazards [Fetish+Hamuul's bonus]
- Cloak of Concealment: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Spells [Fetish+Naralex's Bonus]
(Combat Ally)
- Pouch of Wonder: +50g and AP per WQ [Potion+AP]
- Shard of the Twisting Nether: +100res and AP per WQ [Elixir+AP]
- Ward of Infinite Fury: +50g and +100res per WQ [Potion+Elixir]
- Ember of the Firelands: +100res and +15g(???) per WQ [Elixir+Draught...?] (something is wrong with this one; it's exactly as the Ward, just worse)

Regarding Combat Ally items, I rank them as follows: Pouch > Ward >= Shard > Potion (epic) > Ember > Elixir (epic). I don't know if that Ember is intended or if Wowhead's just bugged; I didn't even know 4 CA 7.2 Legendary items existed. Anyways, you obs want to maximize your gold intake, the AP is quite helpful and adds up like crazy, and make sure you have at least 1 Resource item on to keep the resources flowing. Try not to have more than 1 though unless both of them are legendaries (e.g., if you have Shard and Ward, that's fine, just make the third one a Potion). If I had access to as many legendaries as I wanted, I would probably run Pouch + Ward + Potion. If you have at least 1 gold legendary, you should be getting at minimum 100g per WQ.

Optimal Legendaries for Followers
- Meatball: Fel Imp Tooth; For more success though, Vial of Sight to double his Minions bonus.
- Moroes: Vial of Sight (if equipped with Ember and/or Token), or Cloak of Concealment. If not built for Keepers, they're nearly equal.
- Sylendra: Fel Imp Tooth, and don't waste any other legendary (above) on her.
- Remulos: Vial of Sight (because of Keepers).
- Hamuul: Harpy Feather to double his Hazards bonus.
I wouldn't recommend wasting a Success Chance legendary on any of the following, but if you do, here's their optimal ones:
- Mylune: Any but Fel Imp Tooth.
- Naralex: Cloak of Concealment, to double his Spells bonus
- Zen'tabra: Vial of Sight, to double her Minions bonus.
- Brightwing or Broll Trashmantle: Get out. (in all seriousness despite my hate for these two, there IS no optimal legendary for them)

I really should compile all the information I've posted somewhere in one giant post.

[cparle87]

Don't use a bodyguard. Bodyguards lag behind significantly in XP because quests and world quests only give 150 XP each to a L110 follower, no matter what quest/WQ you do.

They seem to have buffed this recently. I have the 7 follower trait and like to send 2 followers with a keeper on my missions, so I had Thisalee sitting out on her own. I took her with me and got her from uncommon to epic in one day. Every quest and WQ I did was 1,000 experience. So I cleared the board, for paragon rep as well.

[Leyre]

This right here, this is the dream. Not using Moroes/Meatball, not countering the boss, and still managing 200% is what I'm trying to make the perfect optimization for. Trying to get Meatball/Moroes to solo (+ a troop) 200% every mission they can and have other duo+troop and not even needing to counter the bosses is the ideal world. With more legendaries and time, we should get there.

PS: Yes I know the bonus on this mission doesn't really matter, but that's beside the point.





Something easier (and probably simpler) to answer is why do you hate them? If you really hate them (and optimization) that much, here's an updated list, just for you: (WARNING: THIS IS EXTREMELY SUBOPTIMAL AND NO ONE ELSE BUT LEYRE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING THIS SETUP)

- Remulos, Thisalee, Sylendra, Hamuul (you never don't use these 4)
- Mylune
- Zen'tabra
- Brightwing

This should give you:
Spec Counters: 2 Balance (Rem/Myl), 3 Feral (This/Ham/Zen), 2 Resto (Syl/Bright)
Abil Counters: 2 Minions (Ham/Bright), 2 Hazards (This/Myl), 3 Spells (Rem/Syl/Zen)
Bonuses: Minions (Zen), Hazards (Ham), Treants (Myl), Keepers (Rem), 5-35% bonus when with troops (This), Shrooms (Syl), Near-uselessness (Bright)
Recommended Troops: Balance AoW (Resto works too), 1 Starfall & 1 Dash DGWs

Now, the hardest bit: If you want a Combat Ally/BG, I actually recommend Thisalee here, simply because she's the only Feral that can be a CA/BG that's activated. The only thing this changes is that you might want to consider 2x Dash DGWs, though 1SF+1Dash works fine too. This also makes it really hard to constantly 200% missions since you're pretty much solely relying on Remulos to carry with the others providing some support (~50% or so). Basically, you'll want to equip nearly everyone with Ember, Token, and Fetish (except Sylendra who will still be Duration for shroom generation).

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New 7.2 Legendary List
(Missions)
- Fel Imp Tooth: +15% Success, +15% Reduction [Fetish+Saddle]
- Vial of Sight: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Minions [Fetish+Zen'tabra's bonus]
- Harpy Feather: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Hazards [Fetish+Hamuul's bonus]
- Cloak of Concealment: +15% Success, +15% bonus Success against Spells [Fetish+Naralex's Bonus]
(Combat Ally)
- Pouch of Wonder: +50g and AP per WQ [Potion+AP]
- Shard of the Twisting Nether: +100res and AP per WQ [Elixir+AP]
- Ward of Infinite Fury: +50g and +100res per WQ [Potion+Elixir]
- Ember of the Firelands: +100res and +15g(???) per WQ [Elixir+Draught...?] (something is wrong with this one; it's exactly as the Ward, just worse)

Regarding Combat Ally items, I rank them as follows: Pouch > Ward >= Shard > Potion (epic) > Ember > Elixir (epic). I don't know if that Ember is intended or if Wowhead's just bugged; I didn't even know 4 CA 7.2 Legendary items existed. Anyways, you obs want to maximize your gold intake, the AP is quite helpful and adds up like crazy, and make sure you have at least 1 Resource item on to keep the resources flowing. Try not to have more than 1 though unless both of them are legendaries (e.g., if you have Shard and Ward, that's fine, just make the third one a Potion). If I had access to as many legendaries as I wanted, I would probably run Pouch + Ward + Potion. If you have at least 1 gold legendary, you should be getting at minimum 100g per WQ.

Optimal Legendaries for Followers
- Meatball: Fel Imp Tooth; For more success though, Vial of Sight to double his Minions bonus.
- Moroes: Vial of Sight (if equipped with Ember and/or Token), or Cloak of Concealment. If not built for Keepers, they're nearly equal.
- Sylendra: Fel Imp Tooth, and don't waste any other legendary (above) on her.
- Remulos: Vial of Sight (because of Keepers).
- Hamuul: Harpy Feather to double his Hazards bonus.
I wouldn't recommend wasting a Success Chance legendary on any of the following, but if you do, here's their optimal ones:
- Mylune: Any but Fel Imp Tooth.
- Naralex: Cloak of Concealment, to double his Spells bonus
- Zen'tabra: Vial of Sight, to double her Minions bonus.
- Brightwing or Broll Trashmantle: Get out. (in all seriousness despite my hate for these two, there IS no optimal legendary for them)

I really should compile all the information I've posted somewhere in one giant post.

I love you <3 and you even recommended waifu as combat follower, i love you even more

[Polarthief]

I love you <3 and you even recommended waifu as combat follower, i love you even more

Even for suboptimal builds, I just love the system. Loved WoD garrison missions (though it was way too extensive to optimize appropriately) and I love this even more. Glad to help

If you need the specific gearing info, refer to my post at the top of this page (gear Zen'tabra the same way you would Hamuul; she's actually better since her Minions bonus stacks with Keepers, and gear Brightwing for success and/or Keepers. Mylune throw a Scroll of Growth then Fetish+Doodad)

[Jekky]

Thanks for the optimized breakdown

But for CA equipment, why resources and not just gold+AP ? i'm sitting on a lot of resources and have little to spend them on, but this is with 2 missions a day. unless with everything optimized, we'll be sending out 4-5 missions a day?

[Polarthief]

Thanks for the optimized breakdown

But for CA equipment, why resources and not just gold+AP ? i'm sitting on a lot of resources and have little to spend them on, but this is with 2 missions a day. unless with everything optimized, we'll be sending out 4-5 missions a day?

Without ANY incoming resources, you'll eventually run out. It's just a safety net to ensure you never do. If you're at like, 100k+, you could probs take off any non-Legendary resource items you have.

Consider this: Do you get at least ~6k resources a week? If not, you're resource negative.

Idk about you but the 15g per WQ (Draught) isn't worth not having the peace of mind that I'm getting 100 resources from WQs and can 100% ignore any resource WQs or making sure I do broken shore forever.

[Tiberria]

How can you possibly have 0 resources incoming, unless you are just not playing that toon at all period except for doing missions? I started 7.2 at like 75,000 resources, and am now up to 210,000, and that's with buying all 3 seals every week, doing all of the class hall upgrades, etc, etc. You get a huge amount of resources from world quests, emissary caches, paragon rep caches, Legionfall supply caches, Broken Shore chests, etc, etc. There's no way you should be in a net negative position unless you are just not even playing the game and using the toon as a missions only mule.

[Polarthief]

How can you possibly have 0 resources incoming, unless you are just not playing that toon at all period except for doing missions? I started 7.2 at like 75,000 resources, and am now up to 210,000, and that's with buying all 3 seals every week, doing all of the class hall upgrades, etc, etc. You get a huge amount of resources from world quests, emissary caches, paragon rep caches, Legionfall supply caches, Broken Shore chests, etc, etc. There's no way you should be in a net negative position unless you are just not even playing the game and using the toon as a missions only mule.

I intentionally skip all Resource missions, I didn't have any CA/BG until recently, and I only got resources from turnins and emissaries. I wasn't getting 6k a week (much less 13k a week if you have AoW T5 advancement) I'll tell you that much. Even still, I just now broke 50k resources, and I had 75k before the patch (because I prepared for the old 20k/30k amounts when the PTR had T7/T8 going for that much).

I also have two alts that I mostly just do lucrative (read: bloods) WQs and sometimes get their emissary caches. Without even getting seals, they've been resource negative and just hemorrhaging them for quite awhile, to the point where I spent a good 2-3 hundred bloods getting their resources (I prepared for ~25k pre-7.2, though I didn't bother getting their 8th tier because it'll just be cheaper in 7.3). Since putting CAs on them, it's been a lot more stable.

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Finally have the Dream Team. Been a long time coming with 100+ Lower Kara runs but finally, it's done <3 (added bonus: 2 +10 missions just popped up as soon as I got him, bringing Moroes to 895 woo!)

[Marrilaife]

You do realize that for DHs, S'theno has to do missions to get the 40% success troop, right? Sadly, no items to stack it with though. Outcast with a useful spell goes well with Akama since matron is very much trash (if going for the 2/2/2 counter setup).

You could get Korvas to feed soul fragments to the troop, so you don't need to regrind the summon token, but tbh I find other champions better with their passives.

Getting a bit OT but DHs kinda suffer from not having an optimal setup with abilities (as such, my DH has 3 Glaive, 2 Consume, 1 Fel Rush, but also has 2 Fel Rush Shivarra [their version of Dreamgrove Wardens]).

I don't find it as hard as on some other classes to go 2-2-2 setup on DH as long as I use S'theno for missions (which I do), You can have Altruis/Kayn + Jace for fel rush, S'theno + Asha for glaive, Allari + Akama for interrupt. I use Matron as a combat ally because she's useless for missions and I prefer clicky button combat allies so they don't get me stuck in combat randomly.

Anyway ontopic of Druid combat allies, I tried Naralex at start and basically half the bigger mobs (the warden wanted ones) were immune so he was doing nothing. Did they change it recently? I see so much praise for Naralex while my experience was when I really need him, he doesn't work. I used Remulos as a combat ally because he fulfils my criteria (clicky button and one that works), but I agree he's a big asset as a mission champion (due to greater troop affinity and due to being non-lame balance champion, lesser troop affinity Mylune sports is semi-useless).

Have same issue on my Paladin, using Lothraxion as a combat ally (because his counters are not needed when Maximillian does the same only better), and I found a lot of situations where mobs are not stunnable so his debuff doesn't apply. I mean... shouldn't it at least apply damage debuff if it can't stun?

If I ever find another elixir of plenty I might switch Remulos to Thisalee in combat ally slot because when I have 7 alts and probably more in the future, farming order resources is a chore (and no, bloods have better uses than burning them for half a mission worth of value in OR), so sending my raid caches for 700 instead of 1k is cool. Broll will stay.

[Polarthief]

You could get Korvas to feed soul fragments to the troop, so you don't need to regrind the summon token, but tbh I find other champions better with their passives.

Nah, you use Korvas to feed the Shivarra. You also should have plenty of troop tokens, and keep in mind they only give 40% success while their improved T2 Troops are 30% + 15% against Hazards AND Minions! You'll be hard pressed to find a mission that doesn't get that extra 15%!

That said, my DH is still very weak and I like using S'Theno as her CA/BG, it just sucks because I'm running 1 Fel Rusher, 3 Throw Glaives, and 2 Shivarra with Fel Rush; feels awkward and I'm heavily relying on my Shivarra because EVERY FUCKING MISSIONS LIKE FEL RUSH UGH.

I don't find it as hard as on some other classes to go 2-2-2 setup on DH as long as I use S'theno for missions (which I do), You can have Altruis/Kayn + Jace for fel rush, S'theno + Asha for glaive, Allari + Akama for interrupt. I use Matron as a combat ally because she's useless for missions and I prefer clicky button combat allies so they don't get me stuck in combat randomly.

100% agree with the bodyguard thing, though it's my DH and not my main. I rarely use her for WQs to begin with anyway.

Also: Alt/Kayn just feels worthless to use (like Naralex) and my Kayn is only green, and your list doesn't include Korvas, so... no thank you.

Anyway ontopic of Druid combat allies, I tried Naralex at start and basically half the bigger mobs (the warden wanted ones) were immune so he was doing nothing. Did they change it recently? I see so much praise for Naralex while my experience was when I really need him, he doesn't work. I used Remulos as a combat ally because he fulfils my criteria (clicky button and one that works), but I agree he's a big asset as a mission champion (due to greater troop affinity and due to being non-lame balance champion, lesser troop affinity Mylune sports is semi-useless).

Naralex definitely got nerfed because I remember nearly everything being vulnerable to it, so any and all praise I gave him earlier has been completely nullified by this stealth-nerf to him.

Remulos is simply too good to waste as a Combat Ally. He's (arguably) our (as in the class's) strongest-for-missions champion. Wasting him as a CA is just doing yourself a disservice.

Since I finally got Moroes last night, I got to try Mylune today, and while it seemed a little uncommon for her to summon the Faerie Dragons (though very common I got useless critters following me), they seemed to be okay. Plus, not only is there no button, there's no BG to get super annoying and keep you in combat. You don't get any amazing buffs or assistance, but it's better than literally nothing (Naralex) and you don't deal with the annoying BG issues.

Have same issue on my Paladin, using Lothraxion as a combat ally (because his counters are not needed when Maximillian does the same only better), and I found a lot of situations where mobs are not stunnable so his debuff doesn't apply. I mean... shouldn't it at least apply damage debuff if it can't stun?

I'm only using Lothraxion because of Rebuke and again, don't really play the Paladin alt for WQs, and she plays as Protection, so she actually has more of an issue with lots of small things than one big thing, making Lothraxion actually usable. It all depends on the context that you use toons.

If I ever find another elixir of plenty I might switch Remulos to Thisalee in combat ally slot because when I have 7 alts and probably more in the future, farming order resources is a chore (and no, bloods have better uses than burning them for half a mission worth of value in OR), so sending my raid caches for 700 instead of 1k is cool. Broll will stay.

Using Thisalee as a CA is also a disservice like Remulos unless you really need the assistance. She's also a Bodyguard, keep that in mind.

Also oh my god, you use Broll. Your Druid better be an alt.

[Marrilaife]

Nah, you use Korvas to feed the Shivarra. You also should have plenty of troop tokens, and keep in mind they only give 40% success while their improved T2 Troops are 30% + 15% against Hazards AND Minions! You'll be hard pressed to find a mission that doesn't get that extra 15%!

Yep, ofc I upgraded greater troops and use them a lot (tbh DH ones are stronger because they get 15% bonus to 2 things while others get only 1 thing, the only ones lacking is paladin greater troops because you need to pair them with lesser troops forcing you to use only 1 champ per mission, it is only char where I upgraded lesser troops instead).

That said, my DH is still very weak and I like using S'Theno as her CA/BG, it just sucks because I'm running 1 Fel Rusher, 3 Throw Glaives, and 2 Shivarra with Fel Rush; feels awkward and I'm heavily relying on my Shivarra because EVERY FUCKING MISSIONS LIKE FEL RUSH UGH.

100% agree with the bodyguard thing, though it's my DH and not my main. I rarely use her for WQs to begin with anyway.

Also: Alt/Kayn just feels worthless to use (like Naralex) and my Kayn is only green, and your list doesn't include Korvas, so... no thank you.

Well in general I didn't really care to pick the "heal troops" champions unless I'm stuck with them for no better option, like Sylendra on Druid or Nobundo on Shaman, I didn't use the juggle new troops trick (cherry pick ones with counter you like and try to keep them alive forever while also having the extra champ), only Ancient of War to keep second resto, think if I wanted to feed my new troops I would have to be really really sparse with troop usage (have enough mushrooms to feed the ancient but ancient + 2 boomkins? not sure...) and always watch to counter lethal which is what I often leave (and rebuild troop after).

Not sure why 15% chance with spells is considered worse than let's say 15% with hazards? Because that's why you dismiss Kayn / Naralex?

Since I finally got Moroes last night, I got to try Mylune today, and while it seemed a little uncommon for her to summon the Faerie Dragons (though very common I got useless critters following me), they seemed to be okay. Plus, not only is there no button, there's no BG to get super annoying and keep you in combat.

Oh, the faerie dragons can get you stuck in combat especially they're more than 1 when they spawn. I tried every single combat ally pre 7.2 on Druid and both Broll and Mylune were keeping me stuck in combat and ruining my shadowmelds when I wanted to gtfo.

Didn't try Thisalee as a CA/BG so was wondering how useful / annoying she is, because Mylune was really annoying (plus you have a constant stream of turkeys, rabbits and squirrels following you around unless you like that).

I'm only using Lothraxion because of Rebuke and again, don't really play the Paladin alt for WQs, and she plays as Protection, so she actually has more of an issue with lots of small things than one big thing, making Lothraxion actually usable.

Not sure what you mean because if you play tank your aoe capabilities will be usually better than single target (especially in comparison to dps specs that often can burst single target down but not all of them have sustained aoe).

Edit: If you need rebuke Maximillian fits that slot well since he gives also +20% success chance when paired with any paladin champion (not Meatball / Moroes), so he's really good for missions. You can also either keep Celeste (if you like reduced mission duration, there are 2 opinions I've seen, one don't use these and try for your missions always be 8h+ and second stack reductions like crazy and make a team with speed + short mission bonuses). Or even Liadrin.

The biggest problem with paladin setup is that it's so hard to pass on either Boros (greater troop bonus), Tyrosus (extra tomes for +20% chance, don't have meatball, but anyway you wanna divine shield and Aponi passive is bad) or Maximillian (as outlined above), so I'm stuck with 3 prot 1 holy in my mission setup.

Also oh my god, you use Broll. Your Druid better be an alt.

Ofc, the paladin is my main and I have atm all the tank classes + shaman levelled so it's a lot of OR to farm, most of the tanks can fend for themselves so I semi-don't care if combat ally doesn't help a lot as long as it doesn't keep me in combat more than necessary, taunt stuff off me (that's why I don't like to use Broll as BG) or run off to pull unnecessary mobs. Being not completely invalid is a benefit of course, that's why I'm kinda not convinced towards Naralex on druid or Liadrin on Paladin (she does minuscule damage and all you get is knock mobs away from you, which you don't want as melee, and extra interrupt, which you mostly don't need on prot paladin either).

My druid is mainspec resto but I would never quest as resto, so I mostly quest as bear sometimes boomkin.

On Shaman I was using Hydraxis as combat ally contrary to popular pick of Rehgar (less important after flying anyway), because after playing 5-6 tanks it's easy to forget facetanking stuff on Shaman isn't preferred, so extra lay on hands comes handy.

Just have really big problem picking combat ally on druid and monk due to none of them really fulfilling my criteria (clicky button, not completely useless, not essential for mission setup).