Frost mage failing miserably. desperate for help

[Havoccc]

Please could anyone help me frost mage?
I have recently switched to frost from arcane as I couldn’t seem to get that right either. I am either missing the fundamentals or I am just a bad player (probably both).
Rotation (no elemental)
• Icy Veins
• Frozen Orb
• Ebonbolt
• FOF proccs to extend IV
• Frostbolt filler
FOF – use when available
Brain freeze – I use all FOF proccs up cast Frostbolt, Flurry and IL to shatter.

I have a fairly good/ ok gear score but I really struggle with dps 300 -450k.
I would appreciate any help as I’m totally failing as a mage at the moment.

Thank you in advance for any help at all.


Thank you in advance for any help at all.

[Droptoss]

Without more information such as warcraft logs or at least an armory link you should just go read the excellent guide over at altered time mage forums.
altered-time dot com


Here are some points but you really should read the guide:
Stat wise you want crit until 33.4% > haste >versa, however you want to get rid of any mastery gear as its by far the worst stat along with crit over 33.4%

2 piece set bonus is a huge single target dps increase but 4 piece is not important.

You want to stand at least 15yards away from your target.

After you cast flurry you ALWAYS should follow with an icelance as it will crit from the chill effect applied by flurry.

After you cast ebonbolt you should always follow up with flurry so EB also gains the benefit of freeze caused by flurry .

You should almost always cast a frostbolt before using your brainfreeze proc so the frostbolt can crit, giving you a chain reaction proc.

Losing charges of finger of frost or brainfreeze is a huge dps loss and should be avoided in most cases. ie you don't want to cast frost orb followed by EB because you will waste a fof proc.

[Kelathos]

As a Heroic cleared Frost Mage, I can confirm that Droptoss gave really good advice.
There's little else to add.

[Deleted]

Please could anyone help me frost mage?
I have recently switched to frost from arcane as I couldn’t seem to get that right either. I am either missing the fundamentals or I am just a bad player (probably both).
Rotation (no elemental)
• Icy Veins
• Frozen Orb
• Ebonbolt
• FOF proccs to extend IV
• Frostbolt filler
FOF – use when available
Brain freeze – I use all FOF proccs up cast Frostbolt, Flurry and IL to shatter.

I have a fairly good/ ok gear score but I really struggle with dps 300 -450k.
I would appreciate any help as I’m totally failing as a mage at the moment.

Thank you in advance for any help at all.


Thank you in advance for any help at all.

Most of the rotational parts have been explained. Talents are also very important. If you go for TV your game will revolve about managing the IV cd. If you are under the effect of IV you want to extend it as long as possible. (in the future with the changes to IV this will become trivial since you can only extend 1s per IL) Some talents are more or less obligatory others can be changed based on ST, cleave, AoE or movement.

For now, and for this reason, I would not spec in LW yet (unless you got bis legendary gloves/bracers) unless you reach real high Ilvl. Also, try and get rid of movement clutter should you suffer from that. Try and get your opener right (depends on talents) and try to get to know the fights; when to use CD's, when to move etc. this helps a lot.

[Havoccc]

Hi Thanks for the advice, I am unable to link yet as new to mm champ.
Logs
warcraftlogs dot com/rankings/character/3113125/latest/

Armory
eu.battle dot net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Havocc/advanced

[Krigaren]

Thingy @ US Blackhand is probably one of the best Frost mages in the game atm, and he has a really great rotation guide that explains what you should be doing, and when you should be doing it.

Give it a look below:



Similar to what Droptoss said, the fundamentals (which Thingy goes over) is to make sure you're utilizing your Shatter procs as often as possible, and that you chain Frostbolt/Ebonbolt to Mind Freeze in order to accomplish it.

Basically, always use up your Fingers of Frost procs (you can stack them up to 3, but use them all the moment you either cap out, or get Mind Freeze).

When you get a Mind Freeze proc for an instant Flurry, cast either Ebonbolt (if it's available) or Frostbolt FIRST, then immediately cast Flurry to freeze your target before the Frostbolt/Ebonbolt hits, then immediately cast Ice Lance. That's the core of your rotation as Frost.

If you're going Lonely Winter (my personal fav) you don't need to worry about your water elemental, but if you have the elemental with you, you'll also need to learn to manually activate Water Jet, and time it so that your pet casts it just before your Frostbolt finishes casting so you can fit two Frostbolts into the Waterjet's channel time. It's more advanced and a pita, but it's the best way to max out your available Fingers of Frost procs.

[nickseng]

Here are some points but you really should read the guide:
Stat wise you want crit until 33.4% > haste >versa, however you want to get rid of any mastery gear as its by far the worst stat along with crit over 33.4%

Don't focus on getting crit to 33.34%. It's a cap, not a breakpoint. Frost is mostly balancing Crit/Haste (and versatility, once you get alot of crit/haste). It's probably best to sim yourself to see which stat is more important at any given point.

[Ferrair]

Hijacking this thread, i was just browsing through some frost mages and i noticed that for me to stay at crit cap, or 33.81% crit, my crit is at 11.5k But most other frost mages on warcraft logs have theirs at around 8.5-9.6k.

Is this crit cap really so important?

[nickseng]

Hijacking this thread, i was just browsing through some frost mages and i noticed that for me to stay at crit cap, or 33.81% crit, my crit is at 11.5k But most other frost mages on warcraft logs have theirs at around 8.5-9.6k.

Is this crit cap really so important?

You could've just read my post right above yours

[Ferrair]

You could've just read my post right above yours

Just seems like a lot of people focus on this cap as it gives something something 100% crit chance during proc something something i don't remember anymore.

[Droptoss]

Just seems like a lot of people focus on this cap as it gives something something 100% crit chance during proc something something i don't remember anymore.

I think the confusion comes from the difference between haste breakpoints (thresholds?) and a cap. A cap implies that any additional stats beyond a certain point will give you reduced value.

For example if all your spells already had 100% crit chance any additional crit rating you gain will give you zero benefit. This is a hard cap.

In our case when we have 33.34% crit all our spells that benefit from shatter will have 100% crit. Our other spells still gain from increased crit chance so its a soft cap.

A haste breakpoint gives you a considerably larger dps gain if you have reached a certain amount of stats. For example having enough haste to fit another GCD inside a dps cooldown.

To get the best answer and to compare items that appear very simliar you should use simcraft on your character to get personalized stat weights. If you don't want to do that I personally suggest using the highest ilv gear you can that doesn't have mastery on it unless you end up with over 33.34% crit then you also should get rid of some crit.

As I was gearing up in NH I did sim my character and for me crit was the best stat until about 32.5%

[Ferrair]

I think the confusion comes from the difference between haste breakpoints (thresholds?) and a cap. A cap implies that any additional stats beyond a certain point will give you reduced value.

For example if all your spells already had 100% crit chance any additional crit rating you gain will give you zero benefit. This is a hard cap.

In our case when we have 33.34% crit all our spells that benefit from shatter will have 100% crit. Our other spells still gain from increased crit chance so its a soft cap.

A haste breakpoint gives you a considerably larger dps gain if you have reached a certain amount of stats. For example having enough haste to fit another GCD inside a dps cooldown.

To get the best answer and to compare items that appear very simliar you should use simcraft on your character to get personalized stat weights. If you don't want to do that I personally suggest using the highest ilv gear you can that doesn't have mastery on it unless you end up with over 33.34% crit then you also should get rid of some crit.

As I was gearing up in NH I did sim my character and for me crit was the best stat until about 32.5%

Hmm... ok, no need for any custom APLs right? I played with simc a lot before but i've just given up on it and focused more on rotation and stuff.

Got some help in another thread and my dps on H Anomaly went from 692k (41 traits) last week to 810k (43 traits) this week at 899ilvl. This was the biggest jump in dps so I think i was lucky with procs and Lust usage(managed to get 2 lusts in but both fights i forgot to use 2nd pot), other boss fights it wasnt nearly as big a jump, mostly 10-30k increase.

I haven't been successful at getting a 2nd Frozen Orb during IV, only managed to delay IV long enough to get a 2nd FOrb once, and I'm still figuring out the 2 IL thing but I guess there's no point now since both will be patched in 7.2

I'll give simc another go though.

[Krangh]

I would focus on rotation, CD usage, and really understanding how all your abilities synergize. The fact your forgetting to use a 2nd pot tells me that you are still "thinking" about what buttons to press, you won't be optimal until it's muscle memory and you can focus on being more efficient in other areas of the fight.

For frost specifically, I found the biggest dps increasing factor I have control of is movement. Be efficient with your blinks, and minimize any type of running as much as possible. Frost needs to be casting anytime you don't have a proc, if you do need to move, try and do it when you ha e a brain freeze up so you can at least be doing something productive while you love your feet.

[Ferrair]

I would focus on rotation, CD usage, and really understanding how all your abilities synergize. The fact your forgetting to use a 2nd pot tells me that you are still "thinking" about what buttons to press, you won't be optimal until it's muscle memory and you can focus on being more efficient in other areas of the fight.

For frost specifically, I found the biggest dps increasing factor I have control of is movement. Be efficient with your blinks, and minimize any type of running as much as possible. Frost needs to be casting anytime you don't have a proc, if you do need to move, try and do it when you ha e a brain freeze up so you can at least be doing something productive while you love your feet.

Yeah, few weeks ago i posted here asking for help as i couldn't even break 550k. Now i'm doing 600k+ easy, sometimes hitting 700k. Still need to improve but i'm plateauing again though.

Synergy between spells from what I understand is when i cast FOrb, i always throw in Blizzard after since its instant cast with the new trait, i always use 2 Blizzards with 1 FOrb cast as it helps reduce cooldown on FOrb. Frostbolt crits reduce cooldown on IV.

Those 2 are the only synergy i know of, did i miss out something?

[Deleted]

Hi Thanks for the advice, I am unable to link yet as new to mm champ.
Logs
warcraftlogs dot com/rankings/character/3113125/latest/

Armory
eu.battle dot net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Havocc/advanced

I had a look at your spellblade heroic kill. Ignoring the obvious mistakes like forgetting to double pot, overiding bloodlust with hero, not saving IV for when hero happens, not saving frost orb during the aoe phases. None of that matters through because you play *really* slowly.

Here is an example:

At 37.5s into the fight you cast FB and your cast finishes at 39.0s but you only begin casting your next FB at 39.7s. This cast finishes at 41.3 but you only begin casting your third FB at 42.0

Over two FB casts you lost 0.7+0.7 = 1.4s by not playing fast enough. You could almost have cast 3 FBs in the time you only cast 2, a 50% increase. This occurs frequently over the course of the fight and it is also a problem when you are spam instant cast spells. I advice you to get an addon that shows lag inside your cast bar, for example quartz on curse dot com. If you use that addon you want to start spamming your next spell when the cast bar hits the red part at the end of the cast as at that point your input signal reaches the wow servers your spell will already have finished. Blizzard has enabled lag tolerance which allows spell queuing which means you don't need to spam your abilities anymore but I suggest for now you just spam your abilities and especially your instant casts to make sure they go off ASAP.

The principle is called ABC (Always Be Casting!). Anytime you are not casting a spell or are not on GCD you lose dps that you could have had. This is the most important idea once you start using your abilities in the correct order. Everytime your moving stops you from doing your optimal dps rotation you lose dps. In your logs you cast IL 94 times but gained 18 FoF procs and 33 flurry casts. 33+18 = 51, 94-51 = 43. You cast 43 unempowered icelances in a fight were you only cast 221 spells. Casting IL without letting it shatter is a huge dps loss, I hope you did those casts when you were moving as they should never happen when you are standing still. If thats true then you are moving too much. Instead you should use better positioning, shimmer (or iceflows) and stutter stepping to reposition yourself without losing dps.

You are interupting FB casts fairly often. When you interupt your spells you are losing time doing nothing. Sometimes the fight forces you to move mid cast but in your logs it happens far to often.

If you are still clicking abilities using the mouse pointer you need to sort that out and swap to keybinds. It will help you move your character properly and press your abilities faster.

I said this before but you need to fix your opener. You are using frostorb and EB at the same time which causes you to lose out on procs. Go EB->flurry->IL->frostorb. Throw in IV as its not on GCD

[MashTactics]

You should almost always cast a frostbolt before using your brainfreeze proc so the frostbolt can crit, giving you a chain reaction proc.

Could you elaborate on this a little? I'm not overly familiar with frost mage yet, and so I'm not sure why this works this way.

[Tinary]

Could you elaborate on this a little? I'm not overly familiar with frost mage yet, and so I'm not sure why this works this way.

Flurry from Brain Freeze proc causes a debuff on target that lasts for 1,6 sec which makes the target act as its frozen, therefore your crit chance is higher againt it. If you cast frostbolt before flurry then flurry hits the same time as frostbolt (if you are atleast certain yards away but since you are caster you be anyway), therefore frostbolt gets the increased crit chance and if you follow flurry with a icelance then it will get the frozen buff also and hit the same as with a FoF proc. The debuff is called "Winter's Chill" in your spellbook.

[MashTactics]

Flurry from Brain Freeze proc causes a debuff on target that lasts for 1,6 sec which makes the target act as its frozen, therefore your crit chance is higher againt it. If you cast frostbolt before flurry then flurry hits the same time as frostbolt (if you are atleast certain yards away but since you are caster you be anyway), therefore frostbolt gets the increased crit chance and if you follow flurry with a icelance then it will get the frozen buff also and hit the same as with a FoF proc. The debuff is called "Winter's Chill" in your spellbook.

Aaah, I see. Well, that makes sense. You just need to be far enough away that your flurry hits before the frostbolt?

[Tinary]

Yesh, usually its 10 yards or so, dont recall exactly, no need to keep an eye out for it, just get used to casting frostbolt before flurry. Honestly tho, working with a spec which depends on projectile speed is kinda nuts but if we have it, we use it.

[MashTactics]

Yesh, usually its 10 yards or so, dont recall exactly, no need to keep an eye out for it, just get used to casting frostbolt before flurry. Honestly tho, working with a spec which depends on projectile speed is kinda nuts but if we have it, we use it.

Now, I've heard a number of different ranges for this. The kuni guide says 23 yards, and I think I saw 15 yards quoted elsewhere. That's a pretty big discrepancy.