Kosovo vs Crimea

[Deleted]

That doesn't mean the russian slavs aren't "immigrants" the way you define it, too.
And more recent.

With ur logic aboriginals in Australia are immigrants n the land belongs to the kangaroos.

East Slavs are the original inhabitants in Ukraine, everyone else came after. It's 100% Slav land anyone trying to dispute that will be put down harshly. Don't come into our Slavic home n say its not ours if you know what's good for you!

[Vargrik]

First of all, I'd like to say that Kosovo should be returned to Serbia. I'm also all for Russia getting Crimea back. However, I wish Russia would cease to support Novorrossya's rebels. The deterioration of the situation in all areas with big contingents of separatists would result in the loss an outlet to the sea by Ukraine. Or maybe it would result in Alexander Dugin's wet dream of total annexation of Ukraine by the new Eurasianist Empire.

[Deleted]

Ukraine was invaded, because Russia sent more troops than the ones that were stationed at the base. They sent them further into Ukraine, and attacked. Are you saying Russia did not do those things? If you like, I can provide you the definition of the word. Russian troops crossed the border into Crimea and Ukraine, and sought to occupy and subjugate the country. It's the literal definition of the word. Why is Russia so much like Hitler?

Russia had less troops in Crimea than was agreed upon was upper limit so you have no point n if Russian forces had fought en masse then Ukraine would have been steamrolled.

You just like other MSM-watchers think of the locals as non-participants as if the Donbass rebels aren't the bulk of their forces because then u would be forced to wonder what they think. U guys prefer not to do that n monopolize what people think in ukraine solely from the lense of those who supported maidan coup. A simplified black n white view on an a complex issue.

If anything Putin did just the bare minimum aid, if not for Crimea naval base then he would have let Crimea end up in chaos like eastern ukraine where he gives them aid just so they can get by, otherwise half of Ukraine would be in Russia now. There are some volunteers in eastern ukraine to help out but the vast bulk of what Russia could provide is missing. Not few times have volunteers openly criticized Putin for giving them crumbs. For Russia Ukrainians are the same people n don't want to permanently alienate them, so Russia is holding back. That's why war hasn't finished, like Russia crushed Georgian forces cuz who cares what they think, Georgians aren't even Slavs.
This is why most fighters are locals in Eastern Ukraine, that is why they haven't managed to win but hold positions.

Speaking of Russian forces n ignoring east ukraine rebel fighters is pure ignorance fed by MSM.

[Lolgo]

Russia had much more troops in Crimea than was agreed upon

Fix'd for you

No it isn't russian lie, i actually live there and know way better then you and any media that feeds you with bullshit how things go around here. So please don't go that route...

As do I, so please stop spreading russian propaganda

[Noradin]

With ur logic aboriginals in Australia are immigrants n the land belongs to the kangaroos.

East Slavs are the original inhabitants in Ukraine, everyone else came after. It's 100% Slav land anyone trying to dispute that will be put down harshly. Don't come into our Slavic home n say its not ours if you know what's good for you!

Germanic people were there before them.
Just as an example.

I must say though: You come across as astonishingly insecure and defensive.
Are you afraid of something? Feeling generally threatened by the state of the world?
Is it because you call yourself slavs?

[Macaquerie]

No the tatars are, they are from mongolia in ASIA, they are immigrants in Europe n can fuck right off

Serious question for anyone in the know - in Russia is there some kind of a social stigma to having "Asiatic" ancestry or features? Somehow I can see Russians being insecure over their "impure" extraction compared to the whiter areas of Europe and playing up their Viking and Slavic roots even though, logically, most of them would have some mixture of that with the various steppe tribes that have lived in Eurasia since long before Russia was a thing.

[Balvan]

As do I, so please stop spreading russian propaganda

I didn't say i live in Crimea, i was talking about Kosovo and how they are now technically American state which is true. Even Albanians would be happy if that hypothetically goes official and would eagerly support it. I know that because i live there and i don't give a shit neither for american nor russian propaganda. I am saying what i'm seeing with my own eyes.

[Lolgo]

I didn't say i live in Crimea, i was talking about Kosovo and how they are now technically American state which is true. Even Albanians would be happy if that hypothetically goes official and would eagerly support it. I know that because i live there and i don't give a shit neither for american nor russian propaganda. I am saying what i'm seeing with my own eyes.

I wasn't talking about Kosovo-related issues, sorry. I don't know much about it and rather talk about the part of this discussion that I actually know well.

[Adolecent]

I really tend to get amused when Western Europeans and Americans criticized Russia for holding a referendum in Crimea and recognising it. I just have one question to you: Exactly what did Russia do that is in principle not the same as what America and the West did by recognizing an independent Kosovo?

It is very clear. The Kosovaren, specialy the Albanian Kosovaren, were oppressed by the Serbs. There was long-term ethnic tension which led to wars in the past. Thats why The West intervened. Now that the Russians occupied Crimea you see the same problems rising, oppression of the native inhabitants.

Everywhere the Russians intervene it's the same hell they create, where as The West intervenes we try to bring democracy and equality and justice unbound to heritage.

[Balvan]

I wasn't talking about Kosovo-related issues, sorry. I don't know much about it and rather talk about the part of this discussion that I actually know well.

No problem man. My opinion was mostly addressed to many posters in this thread with argument "Crimea was annexed and Kosovo wasn't". They live in illusion that America liberated Kosovo, they are piecemakers that spreads democracy and justice around the world. They really believe Kosovo is now "independent" from any american influence, which is totally opposite of reality.

Honestly i'm not pro Russian. I would never love to live under their regime. But if we are talking about OP's point, he is 100% right. What Russia did with Crimea was exactly the same what America did with Kosovo.

[Machismo]

Thats why it is called "referendum". You will never get 100% people like your idea, thats why majority's voice should be heard.

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We are also working with several scientific organizations from Crimea, specialized on algae. All of them are extremely happy about joining to Russia - now it is much easier for them to research, to publish, to receive grants, and, well, to live. Their pensions of retired people was raised like by 3 times compared to Ukraine. Thats the truth.

And it's exactly how oppression is started, a majority voting away the freedoms of a minority... Just. Like. Hitler.

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Russia had less troops in Crimea than was agreed upon was upper limit so you have no point n if Russian forces had fought en masse then Ukraine would have been steamrolled.

You just like other MSM-watchers think of the locals as non-participants as if the Donbass rebels aren't the bulk of their forces because then u would be forced to wonder what they think. U guys prefer not to do that n monopolize what people think in ukraine solely from the lense of those who supported maidan coup. A simplified black n white view on an a complex issue.

If anything Putin did just the bare minimum aid, if not for Crimea naval base then he would have let Crimea end up in chaos like eastern ukraine where he gives them aid just so they can get by, otherwise half of Ukraine would be in Russia now. There are some volunteers in eastern ukraine to help out but the vast bulk of what Russia could provide is missing. Not few times have volunteers openly criticized Putin for giving them crumbs. For Russia Ukrainians are the same people n don't want to permanently alienate them, so Russia is holding back. That's why war hasn't finished, like Russia crushed Georgian forces cuz who cares what they think, Georgians aren't even Slavs.
This is why most fighters are locals in Eastern Ukraine, that is why they haven't managed to win but hold positions.

Speaking of Russian forces n ignoring east ukraine rebel fighters is pure ignorance fed by MSM.

Russia invaded a sovereign nation, and stole land and people from them. They even tried to lie about it... poorly. Putin is an oppressive tyrant and a murderer. I will never support people like him. It's sad that you do.

[Balvan]

Russia invaded a sovereign nation, and stole land and people from them. They even tried to lie about it... poorly. Putin is an oppressive tyrant and a murderer. I will never support people like him. It's sad that you do.

America invaded a sovereign nation, and stole land and people from them. They even tried to lie about it... poorly. Clinton/Bush/Obama were an oppressive tyrants and a murderers. I will never support people like them. It's sad that you do.

See what i did there?! Whats the difference between America and Russia?

[Deleted]

Apparently, you don't. Else you'd have a basic understanding what a language group is and how it can be influenced. Russian also has a lot of Asian influence in it, especially Mongolian. And russian has a lot less in common with Old Slavic and Ukrainian, than with Finnish and the languages of indigenous tribes that lived there before Slavs came.



No, it isn't. Just another russian lie to make the annexation at least sound plausible. Crimea has mostly russian population, as in ~60%. Which isn't even close to "almost entirely" and surely doesn't justify an anti-constitutional referendum.
By the way, about 3/4 of that russian population came there during Soviet era. They aren't indigenous to Crimea and never were.

Are u dense? Russian is because of old church slavonic which is old bulgarian that started the whole show. Last time I looked Bulgaria is in the Balkans, not Finland.

I think you topped Hubcaps ignorance n that is no easy feat. Why not claim Russian is part Swahili while ur at it? Wouldn't make ur post any less absurd.

[Vargrik]

America invaded a sovereign nation, and stole land and people from them. They even tried to lie about it... poorly. Clinton/Bush/Obama were an oppressive tyrants and a murderers. I will never support people like them. It's sad that you do.

See what i did there?! Whats the difference between America and Russia?

None.


<snip>

[Infracted]

[Deleted]

Fix'd for you

As do I, so please stop spreading russian propaganda

Give us the numbers. You can't, you just reply like an ignorant petulant child.

[Balvan]

It is very clear. The Kosovaren, specialy the Albanian Kosovaren, were oppressed by the Serbs. There was long-term ethnic tension which led to wars in the past. Thats why The West intervened. Now that the Russians occupied Crimea you see the same problems rising, oppression of the native inhabitants.

Everywhere the Russians intervene it's the same hell they create, where as The West intervenes we try to bring democracy and equality and justice unbound to heritage.

Wow man. Are you serious? What planet you live on? Cant believe there are so narrow minded people like this.Or are you trolling?

[unbound]

I really tend to get amused when Western Europeans and Americans criticized Russia for holding a referendum in Crimea and recognising it. I just have one question to you: Exactly what did Russia do that is in principle not the same as what America and the West did by recognizing an independent Kosovo?

In principle and in fact, there is a pretty large disparity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidad.../#75b7fbf96d41

One reporter from Kiev showed his Russian passport and was handed a ballot and allowed to vote. This raised questions in Kiev if perhaps the Russian soldiers and Russian paramilitary occupying the area since late February had been allowed to cast votes.

Overall, an impressive 96.77% of Crimeans voted to secede from Ukraine. Legal scholar Ilya Somin asks whether such a result may reflect the fact that opponents of the Russian invasion simply stayed home. After all, why take part in what you know to be a Soviet-style farce?

Less than 60% of Crimea is ethnically Russian and about 12% belongs to the Muslim Tatar minority, which wants to stay as far from Moscow as possible. Thus, the result itself demonstrated the referendum's humorous nature, even before one considers procedural tricks or intimidation. And there was no apparent shortage of intimidation.

[Shalcker]

Serious question for anyone in the know - in Russia is there some kind of a social stigma to having "Asiatic" ancestry or features? Somehow I can see Russians being insecure over their "impure" extraction compared to the whiter areas of Europe and playing up their Viking and Slavic roots even though, logically, most of them would have some mixture of that with the various steppe tribes that have lived in Eurasia since long before Russia was a thing.

Currently it is common Ukrainian nationalistic trope - "Russians are Asians, we're the only true and pure Slavs!". So they use it as attack, and naturally those opposing them also get caught in similar line of thinking - "No, you actually have more Mongol/Tatar blood then we do!" and stuff like that (which is true - after all they were quite a bit closer geographically to Mongol hordes and Crimean Khanate in historic times - but shouldn't be the point).

And, well, "Eurasianism" is fairly common in Russian intellectual circles, so they like to think of themselves as extension of Europe, one way or another.

[Lolgo]

Are u dense? Russian is because of old church slavonic which is old bulgarian that started the whole show. Last time I looked Bulgaria is in the Balkans, not Finland.

I think you topped Hubcaps ignorance n that is no easy feat. Why not claim Russian is part Swahili while ur at it? Wouldn't make ur post any less absurd.

This is what happens when you're "smart" enough to believe russian "scientists". Such a pity.

On a related note, if you knew anything about real history, you'd know that:
a) the whole "show" started in Byzantine Empire, present-day Greece. The rest copied/modified the alphabet.
b) present-day russian developed much-much later, than Old Slavic. If you check any literature from 11-12 century you'll see that the language there is much closer to Ukrainian, Belarusian and Polish, than russian. Which developed under the influence of the Golden Horde, indigenous tribes like the Moksha, that belong to Finno-Ugric languages.

Tell me, are you russian? That would completely explain lower than average IQ, aggressive ignorance and spreading of disinformation.

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Give us the numbers. You can't, you just reply like an ignorant petulant child.

Something for your level of intellect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexa...ian_Federation

See the quotations yourself.

[Infracted]

[satimy]

Because it was the best avenue for the MIC to get us involved in another war and spend some more money