UK PM Theresa May to seek snap election.

[Kronik85]

Blair was not a Tory, he had policies that did not repulse Tories and attracted the centrists, there is a difference.

I'm still waiting on some evidence on this notion. It led to cessation in attacking the public sector I guess but the Blair years opened a lot of it up to the private sector. In some ways the Blair years pushed the government further to the right than even the Thatcher years. The national minimum wage was a joke (because you're better off on benefits than actually bothering to earn it) and then you have child and tax credits which only really help the very worst off who have enough pride to bother to work even though it's not actually in their interest to do so (so kudos to those guys really).

Thornberry is not a Tory in disguise. Abbott is not a Tory in disguise.

Fair point. Mine was more directed at the Chuka Umunna's and the Balls cohort.

Anyway the Tories do not hate the British working class, this is a common misconception, they just do not pander to them. They are viewed no differently than the middle or upper classes, this is similar to the Tories treatment of women, where they are judged based on what they offer, not genitals, hence why the party has no issue with female leaders.

Conservatives on the whole do not care if you are working class, they do not care if you are a woman, they do not care what skin tone you have, they do not care if you like to play hide the sausage with Gentleman friends.

Depends if you're definition of pandering is "offering them anything in their actual interests".

[Kalis]

I'm still waiting on some evidence on this notion. It led to cessation in attacking the public sector I guess but the Blair years opened a lot of it up to the private sector. In some ways the Blair years pushed the government further to the right than even the Thatcher years. The national minimum wage was a joke (because you're better off on benefits than actually bothering to earn it) and then you have child and tax credits which only really help the very worst off who have enough pride to bother to work even though it's not actually in their interest to do so (so kudos to those guys really).

Just because he was not your choice of lefty does not make him a Tory.

Electable is what you want from a party, even if they may not be as far left as you want them to be. Being perectly in line with your views is pointless if they cannot get into power, you have to accept it requires compromise.

Fair point. Mine was more directed at the Chuka Umunna's and the Balls cohort.

Chuka Umunna is electable. Ed Balls is Ed Balls.

Depends if you're definition of pandering is "offering them anything in their actual interests".

If you offer one group something that you do not offer to all groups, then that is pandering.

[DJ117]

Or we can look at the nordic states, netherlands, canada, ireland.

What you describe is nothing like our system. You sound more like a communist with no patience for capitalism. We're hybrid societies of capitalism and social policies.

[Deleted]

You're gonna have to explain that post mate, it made no sense.

You brought them into this so you explain it.

[Kallisto]

The difference between centre left and centre right if we are using the Blair years as our yard stick is that there is none. One has a thin veneer of socialism but no socialist policies, the other has a veneer of not being out right disgusted with poor people.

You're so far gone that you think Blair was close to being a Tory when he isn't and never was. Blair introduced things back in the late 90s - early/mid 2000s that the Tories would have bulked at during the time.

Minimum wage for example the Tories fought tooth and nail to stop it happening. Increasing the human rights act, devolution was something the Conservatives were against. Blair also increased spending in education, health, child benefit and income support went up a whopping 72%. He also banned Fox hunting with dogs, try getting a Troy to do that. There's a reason Blair's government was considered by studies to be the most redistributive since Harold Wilson. The difference was Blair knew how to appease the centre right at the same time, allowing more freedoms for businesses both large and small.

If you think that the Tories and Labour are too close then it's because one of too things. You're so far to the left you're making me seem centre right OR the Tories knowing they needed to win elections moved closer to the centre to get votes while letting some slip to the likes of UKIP knowing the gains outweigh the losses, being politically smart.

[draykorinee]

The Tories hate the working class, that much is patently obvious. The lack of opposition is the only reason this abysmal, failure of a tory government aren't being obliterated. Corbyn is at fault here.

[Kalis]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...breathe...oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

First Ed Balls, now Sir Eric Pickles

Which Grade A fucking idiot will go next? Abbott? Thornberry? Boris?


Bye bye Sir Eric, your comedy value shall be missed...

[Kallisto]

It'll be Abbott.

[Deleted]

It'll be Abbott.

One can always wish...

[Mayhem]

I just can't see how this is helping theresa may or the upcoming negotiations with the EU in anyway possible.

[Deleted]

Those Comres /Yougov polling numbers..... holy crap it's a blood bath.

For anyone interested: https://twitter.com/britainelects



Bets on labour going to below 150 seats after this election? The far left has absolutely gutted labour...

[ButterBeast]

No, I'm only interested in actual discussion. Attacking my character is a fallacy I won't respond to.

I'm also not right wing, I'm just anti-left. Whoever stands against socialism, globalisation, and open borders, I vote AGAINST.

so you dislike influence outside your own tribal area, yet you dislike stuff that helps your own people like police, healthcare and free public school and higher education. Why do you hate your own people?

[Deleted]

Anyone who votes right wing tories should be ashamed of themselves

[dribbles]

I just can't see how this is helping theresa may or the upcoming negotiations with the EU in anyway possible.

The vocal retardmain minority need squishing to oblivion. This election will achieve that.

[Infracted]

[Kallisto]

Those Comres /Yougov polling numbers..... holy crap it's a blood bath.

For anyone interested: https://twitter.com/britainelects



Bets on labour going to below 150 seats after this election? The far left has absolutely gutted labour...

Honestly the centre left of the Labour party should just up and leave. Either by forming their own party or latching onto the Lib Dems. The far left won't go anywhere since even if Corbyn is ousted the members will just vote in someone else like him who will try to push too much too fast. While calling anyone slightly less to the left as Red Tory or Tory light.

This wouldn't matter so much if we had a PR system of voting. For one I doubt what we see as the conservatives and Labour would exist anywhere close to the current forms. The Conservatives in the past few elections have shown they know how to win by sacrificing their base just enough to get the centre ground voters. UKIP got 3rd overall in the national vote last time around but the conservatives still won in Parliament because conservatives played it smart. Sacrifice voters spread out the country to win voters in marginals to bring them over the necessary line for a majority. Which the Corbynistas refuse to do. They don't realise that they can be palatible to the centre ground while at the same time push for what they want, they just need to slow down the process and do it in tiny steps while leading from the centre.

They'd rather be board holding, marching around London in protest instead of being in government. That's the point of the opposition, to oppose the Government (logically) and ready themselves to be the next Government.

[Kalis]

so you dislike influence outside your own tribal area, yet you dislike stuff that helps your own people like police, healthcare and free public school and higher education. Why do you hate your own people?

Robert Peel (police), William Ewart Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli (free education) were socialists, globalists or open borders advocates?

[Kallisto]

The vocal retardmain minority need squishing to oblivion. This election will achieve that.

The vocal remain half of the country has just been proven right yet again when your BFF Trump and his lot pretty much stated that Britain is going as Obama called it. "Back of the line."

[Kalis]

Honestly the centre left of the Labour party should just up and leave. Either by forming their own party or latching onto the Lib Dems. The far left won't go anywhere since even if Corbyn is ousted the members will just vote in someone else like him who will try to push too much too fast. While calling anyone slightly less to the left as Red Tory or Tory light.

The Labour brand is worth a decent percentage of votes, nobody is going to give it up willingly.

[dribbles]

The vocal remain half of the country has just been proven right yet again when your BFF Trump and his lot pretty much stated that Britain is going as Obama called it. "Back of the line."

Half? Perhaps almost a year ago, today barely anyone without shame admits to voting remaintard. Obama? Obama who? You are talking again about yesterdays man. A bit like retardmain voters.

[Kallisto]

The Labour brand is worth a decent percentage of votes, nobody is going to give it up willingly.

True I guess but if it's going to be a decade or two of being pushed to the sidelines and the selection process putting in more and more corbynites it's essentially necessary to get out of the party and form the own one, because unless something happens soon Labour are going to be in the worst position it's been in for generations. Even worse than under Foot. (Not sure if pun.)