Is frost op?

[Deleted]

Why would you limit anything to a level of 3/10 players?

Because getting the top parse isn't necessarily about skill. It's about relative strength the raid (does boss die,right your 2nd cd ends or right before your 3rdcd starts?) as well as proc luck and some cheesing. The top frostmage parses where they're getting 11 FoF out of a single frozen orb aren't exactly standard pulls, even with 4piece.

[stevenho]

I was referring to the 905 ilvl. That's 3/10 level.
10/10 players are about 912-914 now and the inbetween is about 910.

[Deleted]

There is so much wrong in this that I do not know where to start. 3/10 mythic players most of the time have no fucking clue what theyre doing with their spec. Thats why they cant beat Krosus enrage timer... Any respectable DPS will not be stuck 3/10 mythic with this many resets, unless hes hard carrying his guild. Also, you think DPS doesnt matter if youre 10/10? That is such an ignorant mentality to have. When it comes to judging spec strength, you look at anyone whos 7/10 or more, and ESPECIALLY 10/10 players, because those are the best of the best. They will show you how strong a spec is when its used at its skill cap.

to be fair, if you go krosus first after the nerfs to spellblade then you're pretty much hindering your guild's progression, coz the nerfs to spellblade are quite significant.

[Nitros14]

Anyway, wrong question. Frost is not OP when compared to other classes, on some fights it barely keeps up, but the real question is.. why are Arcane and Fire so bad?

Arcane got hobbled pretty badly by the removal of ice floes and forcing you to choose between shimmer and slipstream.

You could keep casting pretty much 100% of the time with old shimmer+floes, now high movement wrecks you. Of course back when we had that, arcane spells did like 30% less damage than now...

With zero movement arcane isn't too far behind, and will close that gap with double ice lance nerf and mark of aluneth buff I think.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=100&boss=1842 Here's maximum Krosus dps for example.

Of course it's also skewed because 99% of extremely good and extremely progressed mages are frost and there's very few arcane parses on fights like elisande (and elisande's haste buff interacts with double or even triple ice lance)

[Frostyspeed]

to be fair, if you go krosus first after the nerfs to spellblade then you're pretty much hindering your guild's progression, coz the nerfs to spellblade are quite significant.

Not to sound elitist but the first 5 bosses in Nighthold are pretty easy right now. Id even go as far to say as the first 7. Botanist could be a bit difficult though. Idk like when talking about spec strength, looking at the top player skill is necessary, and i feel like 3/10 guild players are not a good representative sample of that.

[Deleted]

Not to sound elitist but the first 5 bosses in Nighthold are pretty easy right now. Id even go as far to say as the first 7. Botanist could be a bit difficult though. Idk like when talking about spec strength, looking at the top player skill is necessary, and i feel like 3/10 guild players are not a good representative sample of that.

except it represents the majority rather than the minority and is why it is a more valid representation.

[Kayzza]

you should ask if melee is op ? and then answer is : yes

ret and feral arms etc would like to have a word with you...

[Frostyspeed]

except it represents the majority rather than the minority and is why it is a more valid representation.

The sheer number of sample pool is not a factor if they do not know how to play the spec though, otherwise any game's balance design would be in the 'majority' pool, rather than the top tier gameplay level

[Imaskar]

You can't separate top skill, top effort and top luck. If one mage covers far pools on krosus and the other identical mage sits in melee to double IL, the first wil obviously do more damage. But is it representative of the capability of the spec? It would be good to look at top players parses when they were 900-905, but is not always possible. Looking at 915 right now is irrelevant, because of different scaling. If fire would do 2m dps at 915, but 500k untill 914 (exaggerated example, obviously) like some kind of Gyarados, you wouldn't play it. You wouldn't have the strength to push youself to 915.

[Daan]

Ice Lance is overtuned.

[-aiko-]

Yes. No one should be surprised about the upcoming nerf to tv

[Deleted]

Ice Lance is overtuned.

not when you account for its RNG nature, its definately not as overtuned as chaos strike and the like.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. No one should be surprised about the upcoming nerf to tv

its barely a nerf, its like 3% tops.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Doesn't feel like it when leveling with the spec...

[Krille]

not when you account for its RNG nature, its definately not as overtuned as chaos strike and the like.

Talking about RNG and says Chaos Strike is overtuned. Do you even play Havoc? Look at where DHs average in mythic logs and then look at where Frost Mages are.

[Deleted]

Talking about RNG and says Chaos Strike is overtuned. Do you even play Havoc? Look at where DHs average in mythic logs and then look at where Frost Mages are.

that wasnt the point i was trying to make, but ill try to explain it to you, if ice lance is overtuned, then by default chaos strike must be as well as it contribute a larger amount of its dmg than ice lance does and where ice lance is dependent on procs, chaos strike is dependent on steady fury generation, you wont have long periods of time where you wont chaos strike, where as frost can have periods of 5-10 secs or more where you wont do anything other than cast frost bolt, ofc there are also periods where you get tons of ice lance/FoF, with frost its ebb and flow hence the RNG, it isnt with chaos strike.

and yes frost is above havoc but it isnt by a significantly huge margin, its funny how there were no complaints when havoc was pissing on every class, come back when havoc sucks as much as arcane and fire, until then, you shouldnt contribute to this thread.

[Krille]

that wasnt the point i was trying to make, but ill try to explain it to you, if ice lance is overtuned, then by default chaos strike must be as well as it contribute a larger amount of its dmg than ice lance does and where ice lance is dependent on procs, chaos strike is dependent on steady fury generation, you wont have long periods of time where you wont chaos strike, where as frost can have periods of 5-10 secs or more where you wont do anything other than cast frost bolt, ofc there are also periods where you get tons of ice lance/FoF, with frost its ebb and flow hence the RNG, it isnt with chaos strike.

and yes frost is above havoc but it isnt by a significantly huge margin, its funny how there were no complaints when havoc was pissing on every class, come back when havoc sucks as much as arcane and fire, until then, you shouldnt contribute to this thread.

You clearly have no clue about Havoc. As a Havoc demon hunter you can have those 5-10 sec windows doing absolutely nothing because your 60% proc chance resource generator either missed (cus it's based on auto-attacks) or didnt proc. The only boss we do extremely well on is Krosus, and that's because you can't miss and he won't parry your attacks. And the only dmg dealing spell we have atm (with Chaos Cleave being the best talent) is Chaos Strike, and this is by design. Frost have many spells, Ice Lance just happens to deal more dmg than anything else. IF they were to tune down Chaos Strike dmg we would be doing worst damage out of all dps specs, because of how they made Havoc DHs work. So the spell itself isn't overtuned, it's just bad design.

So please educate yourself before talking about a spec you clearly never played or simply didn't understand. Havoc is only below arms warrior and outlaw rogues in terms of RNG elements.

[Deleted]

You clearly have no clue about Havoc. As a Havoc demon hunter you can have those 5-10 sec windows doing absolutely nothing because your 60% proc chance resource generator either missed (cus it's based on auto-attacks) or didnt proc. The only boss we do extremely well on is Krosus, and that's because you can't miss and he won't parry your attacks. And the only dmg dealing spell we have atm (with Chaos Cleave being the best talent) is Chaos Strike, and this is by design. Frost have many spells, Ice Lance just happens to deal more dmg than anything else. IF they were to tune down Chaos Strike dmg we would be doing worst damage out of all dps specs, because of how they made Havoc DHs work. So the spell itself isn't overtuned, it's just bad design.

So please educate yourself before talking about a spec you clearly never played or simply didn't understand. Havoc is only below arms warrior and outlaw rogues in terms of RNG elements.

well, ill do it for havoc if you do it for frost, bcoz literally every assumption you make about frost is wrong, its funny how you say that down tuning chaos strike would make havoc the worst spec in the game, when the exact same thing is true for icelance bcoz ice lance's and chaos strike's overall dmg contribution is comparable, so every argument you come up with for not down tuning chaos strike is an argument for not changing ice lance.

[barackohmama]

Tbh dps is quite balanced nowadays. Even top guilds say it was the best/most surprising thing with NH. So no, it's not OP.

[Pua]

Ach, Frost has been too good for years. I'm not sure why it's looked at any differently this time.

Blizzard love mages. It's their favourite class, by distances, and there's plenty of evidence proving it; some highlights include the infamous "we buffed mages because they weren't where we wanted them" during the Throne of Thunder (mages were top three on most every fight at that point), or the expansion-level spec rework that Frost got during Mists while rogues and warriors were absolutely dreadful.

There's no such thing as mages being overpowered. It's working as intended.

[stevenho]

Yep, "Blizzard love mages" - that's why 2/3 of their specs are pure shit since the beginning of legion and the single ones that are able to compete get promptly nerfed into the ground.